35 y.o. DH thinking about Law School (2nd career). Advice?

[Anonymous]

TAX LAW

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again, and yes I am extremely naive about the profession, obviously! I appreciate the information even though you sound a little snotty.

So why are you asking anonymous strangers instead of networking with real, live lawyers???

[Anonymous]

OP, I'm not the 16:07 pp, but I am the one you called snotty. I'm sorry if I came off that way. It's just that law school is hard. Hard to get into. Hard to do well in. Hard to get a job after. And it's not for everyone.

I agree with the pp that said it's usually the ones that think that they will "love law" that hate it. If you love problem solving, analytical thinking, and a shit-ton of reading and formula-style writing with a rigid attention to detail....it's for you.

I would strongly suggest that your DH speak to as many lawyers as he can. Not just Biglaw, but Gov't lawyers, non-profit lawyers, small firm litigators, etc.

I happen to be one of the few that actually LOVED law school. I didn't go right into Biglaw, but did end up there for about a year and a half before having a kid. Now I am not working and if I go back into law, it will be as a paralegal. Litigation isn't the most family friendly gig and I would not be able to find a job situation with the balance that I would need.

I should also mention, I loved law school because I had a great social situation. Lots of friends, happy hours, study groups, etc. Law school at 35 is a whole different ballgame.

For starters, you and DH should rent the movie The Paper Chase. Things haven't changed much since then.

[Anonymous]

He's going to be 40 when he gets out of school, if he starts the process immediately. Not a lot of biglaw firms are interested in hiring 40 yo first year associates. don;t know about other employment opportunities, but I will tell you, OP, that when you start posting things like:

I think he is just interested in Law and would like it, and is looking for a decent (like over 100k) salary.

You give the impression that this is just a whim, and that you've put no serious thought into it, and that you have unrealistic expectstions.

[Anonymous]

OP -- I'm a lawyer. Your husband really needs to talk to the local career offices of GWU + G'town Law. They are the only 2 law schools in the area rated in the top 20. Like many others have said here -- the law is so oversaturated now that some law schools are advising students to take any job they can find...including paralegals. Your husband will be almost 40 by the time he graduates. No one is going to hire a 40 year old entry level lawyer in any economy but especially a terrible one. Have your husband find some other outside interests and tell him to keep his job or find another one in banking.

If he must go to law school -- he should hedge his bets like others have mentioned and go at night. Both GWU and G'town have night programs. If he isn't accepted to either of those schools, tell him to forget wasting his time.

[Anonymous]

No, you're right, I posted on a whim. It's just something we tossed around and haven't researched in depth. Do you have a problem with that?

Anonymous wrote:He's going to be 40 when he gets out of school, if he starts the process immediately. Not a lot of biglaw firms are interested in hiring 40 yo first year associates. don;t know about other employment opportunities, but I will tell you, OP, that when you start posting things like:

I think he is just interested in Law and would like it, and is looking for a decent (like over 100k) salary.

You give the impression that this is just a whim, and that you've put no serious thought into it, and that you have unrealistic expectstions.

[Anonymous]

I'll be perfectly honest. It is a horrible idea.

If your husband wants a career change, have him take a look at cybersecurity or some related IT industry...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would not view the law as something that is not too difficult to break into. You're talking a good 6 years of hard work (law school + three years of entry level lawyering) to get to the point where he has some control over what he is doing. That means a good 60 hours/week away from you and the kids during those 6 years. Plus big firms engage in age and family status discrimination (no one wants to hire someone nearing 40, with a wife and kids at home, to do hard labor); even if he graduated in the top tier from Georgetown, he probably will have few choices - maybe some mid-size firms that don't care as much about his age.

If he was 40 and never worked before, this might be true. The legal job market is indeed tight. But if he graduates at the TOP of his class from Georgetown, G.W., or maybe Mason and uses summer and school-year jobs to cultivate experience in a field of law that uses his banking experience (securities, tax, etc.), he will probably be OK. The problem is that there are very few entry level law jobs that pay around $100K. You're either at Biglaw, which pays $160K+ but is incredibly competitive and soul-sucking, or you're at a small firm somewhere making $60K, and it can take several years to hit six figures. Government jobs are a happy medium but they're even harder to get than Biglaw jobs these days.

Because grades are so important in law school, your DH should do some soul-searching about whether he's the type of person who is really likely to get top grades. Everyone who starts law school thinks they are going to be in the top 10%, but obviously most people don't end up there. The people who do are the ones who are self-motivated and have the ability to sit in one place and stay focused for hours on end. There's nobody breathing down your neck to keep up with the work during the semester. You can cram at the end and skate by with a B, but in this job market that's not going to cut it. If your DH is a procrastinator or has a short attention span, he is unlikely to get stellar grades. (I know because I am and I didn't.)

[Anonymous]

Most lawyers, especially entry level lawyers, do not make 6 figures.

Relative to the population of entry level lawyers, a fraction gets the biglaw salary. Most get around 50K. Of course, most don't live in HCOL areas, but that salary distribution is pretty much on target even in the DC area. That is if you can get a job.

Most people hate working in biglaw.

As far as experienced attorneys go, you again have a fraction working in biglaw who are making millions. Most make a middle class salary. Some can pull in a nice six figure salary, but they are usually running their own firm, which is NOT for everybody.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would not view the law as something that is not too difficult to break into. You're talking a good 6 years of hard work (law school + three years of entry level lawyering) to get to the point where he has some control over what he is doing. That means a good 60 hours/week away from you and the kids during those 6 years. Plus big firms engage in age and family status discrimination (no one wants to hire someone nearing 40, with a wife and kids at home, to do hard labor); even if he graduated in the top tier from Georgetown, he probably will have few choices - maybe some mid-size firms that don't care as much about his age.

If he was 40 and never worked before, this might be true. The legal job market is indeed tight. But if he graduates at the TOP of his class from Georgetown, G.W., or maybe Mason and uses summer and school-year jobs to cultivate experience in a field of law that uses his banking experience (securities, tax, etc.), he will probably be OK. The problem is that there are very few entry level law jobs that pay around $100K. You're either at Biglaw, which pays $160K+ but is incredibly competitive and soul-sucking, or you're at a small firm somewhere making $60K, and it can take several years to hit six figures. Government jobs are a happy medium but they're even harder to get than Biglaw jobs these days.

Because grades are so important in law school, your DH should do some soul-searching about whether he's the type of person who is really likely to get top grades. Everyone who starts law school thinks they are going to be in the top 10%, but obviously most people don't end up there. The people who do are the ones who are self-motivated and have the ability to sit in one place and stay focused for hours on end. There's nobody breathing down your neck to keep up with the work during the semester. You can cram at the end and skate by with a B, but in this job market that's not going to cut it. If your DH is a procrastinator or has a short attention span, he is unlikely to get stellar grades. (I know because I am and I didn't.)

PP here. I wanted to add that your DH shouldn't even bother considering law school if he can't get into Georgetown, G.W., or Mason. Schools like Catholic, American, and Maryland are just not good investments right now. LSATs are generally the most important determinator of whether you will be admitted to a school, so your DH should do a few practice tests to get an idea of whether he's even in the range to apply to these schools.

[Anonymous]

If money isn't an issue, your DH has a world of careers open to him. Here in DC there are so many nonprofits and associations that need executives with financial expertise. Why not get an MBA with a focus in nonprofit management?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most lawyers, especially entry level lawyers, do not make 6 figures.

Relative to the population of entry level lawyers, a fraction gets the biglaw salary. Most get around 50K. Of course, most don't live in HCOL areas, but that salary distribution is pretty much on target even in the DC area. That is if you can get a job.

Most people hate working in biglaw.

As far as experienced attorneys go, you again have a fraction working in biglaw who are making millions. Most make a middle class salary. Some can pull in a nice six figure salary, but they are usually running their own firm, which is NOT for everybody.

I'd say this is true, but I'm not sure what PP means by a "nice six figure salary". I'd bet that most people who have been practicing for 10 years or more are making six figures, though probably not many are over $200K. Government jobs, in-house positions, and small/medium firms will eventually pay a decent salary, but we're talking split level in Fairfax and vacations in Rehoboth, not McMansion in Mclean and vacations in St. Bart's.

[Anonymous]

Was his undergrad gpa a 3.5 or above? If not, he won't get into a good enough law school such that he could start out making $100k or more.

[Anonymous]

This is kind of a worthless debate until he takes at least a practice LSAT. Go to Barnes & Noble and pick up a Princeton Review book for a few bucks and have him take a practice test. If he doesn't like taking the test, he will hate law school. And, seriously, if you (DH) are even thinking "who would like taking a test" than this is not the path for him. And if he doesn't do well, he won't even get into a decent law school.

[Anonymous]

hey, Maryland Law is just as good as George Mason, and especially so if you are a Marylander and pay in-state. Otherwise I agree with the above ...