WSJ Article on NYC preschool admissions

[Anonymous]

The people who say "I come from a humdrum zip code and therefore that proves there is no bias" are probably the same that say "we had a cold day yesterday so global warming is a fraund.

[Anonymous]

I found it interesting that in NYC admissions is apparently directly controlled by the Boards; not the case here so that is a major difference.

[Anonymous]

I have many many friends in NYC - two huge differences come to mind.

1) NYC is all about the pre-school director brokering the deal to the New York School. Almost all families write first choice letters now too.
2) Sadly NYC no longer has a middle-class, and the $$$ factor is huge there... the admissions process is very much about connections & $$$. Much more so than in DC. Not nearly as fair playing ground - and tests don't count as much as social and monetary influence.

Just sayin'

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like the "run of the mill" millionaire Congressmen

Pre K and K admission to top D.C. schools is based on zip code, legacy, sibling, financial donors and celebraties. The rest of us (not "run of the mill" dual professional income families) compete for the few remaining seats.

Yup. So of course a few "regular" families (defined as HHI of $300K or $400K) do snag these few remaining seats. Which leads to posts on DCUM saying "I'm regular but my kid got in." What we're talking about here is how the chances of getting in if you come from a particular group - legacy, sibling, big donor, political celebrity - are better than if you are one of hundreds of "regular" families competing for the remaining slots.

[Anonymous]

Oh dear! Since my HHI is below $300K, I guess... hmmm... what is lower than "regular"? I guess my family must be... poor? Even though I own a nice house (in PG), a boat, take nice vacations, send my kid to private school, and have no debt. Somehow, though, I think I'm upper middle class, and the $300K families are RICH. Just admit it! You are RICH!!! You are not "regular" at all!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have many many friends in NYC - two huge differences come to mind.

1) NYC is all about the pre-school director brokering the deal to the New York School. Almost all families write first choice letters now too.
2) Sadly NYC no longer has a middle-class, and the $$$ factor is huge there... the admissions process is very much about connections & $$$. Much more so than in DC. Not nearly as fair playing ground - and tests don't count as much as social and monetary influence.

Just sayin'

Very interesting, thanks for the input.

[Anonymous]

Your post makes me grateful that we live in the DC area. It sounds awful up there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have many many friends in NYC - two huge differences come to mind.

1) NYC is all about the pre-school director brokering the deal to the New York School. Almost all families write first choice letters now too.
2) Sadly NYC no longer has a middle-class, and the $$$ factor is huge there... the admissions process is very much about connections & $$$. Much more so than in DC. Not nearly as fair playing ground - and tests don't count as much as social and monetary influence.

Just sayin'

Very interesting, thanks for the input.

Well, I think there are exceptions and it is no different in D.C. Our son got into 3 schools, 1 of the schools was mentioned in the WSJ article. However, we ended up not attending as we moved to DC last summer. It is very competitive, but we didn't have a pre-school director brokering a deal and we are not connected and middle-class (we are academics) compared to other families at the schools. Besides good test scores and a great play date, we did our best to convince school reps (parents, teachers and directors) that we as a family were a good fit. In fact, I was 80% sure that we got into 2 of the schools before we received notice based on my interactions with the AD and parent reps. Seemed to work! Waiting to see if it will work again in DC. Yes, people with connections and money have advantages in the admissions process but middle/upper middle class children do get into NYC and DC schools. I also know two wealthy families in NYC that didn't get into their first choice schools, it does happen.

[Anonymous]

I am poster 12:09 - the one with many friends in New York City.

Here's another article of note from the New York Times on the same subject. I personally know someone well who was interviewed for the piece. It basically says that some of Manhattan's finest schools allow kids with connections to take the ERB a second time if the first results weren't up to par. I don't believe this goes on in DC.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/28/nyregion/28private.html?pagewanted=2

[Anonymous]

Of course this would never happen in D.C. ADs would simply write off the score as an outlier and ignore it. The play date and the parent interview will steal the day.

[Anonymous]

If you are connected, sibling, legacy and/or got cash you can play with big advantage on the private school school courts. The WPSSI and ERB are immaterial to the decision (walk, talk and chew gum in the midsection of the Bell shaped curve--admission absolutely justifiable and no problem in D.C., Chicago, LA, NY, and Boston)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So of course a few "regular" families (defined as HHI of $300K or $400K) do snag these few remaining seats. Which leads to posts on DCUM saying "I'm regular but my kid got in." What we're talking about here is how the chances of getting in if you come from a particular group - legacy, sibling, big donor, political celebrity - are better than if you are one of hundreds of "regular" families competing for the remaining slots.

Well, I'd agree with you that the odds of admission for particular priority groups (legacy, sibling, big donor, etc) are probably better than for any regular families applying for spots. I don't think anyone would disagree with that point. In fact, most schools are pretty open about giving some extra opportunity to legacy & sibling applicants.

But I'd disagree with some of the other PPs who claim that admissions is "all about connections" and "about the zip code you live in," or who suggest that only a small handful of regular families attend these schools. IME, that's just plain wrong. There definitely are a few families who are big-donor or celebrity types, but they are in the minority. The vast majority of families are "regular" families from a wide variety of zip codes and professions. They're you're neighbors, co-workers, and other people sitting next to you on Metro. I'd agree that the average HHI for these parents is probably a lot higher than the $55,000 average HHI in the DC region. But families with two parents on the GS scale, or similar salaries, are pretty common.

I sense that some other the other PPs are never going to believe this, and will insist that these expensive private schools are just walled gardens for the super-rich and for people on TV. I don't really care whether or not they believe me. But for any other "regular" parents reading this thread, please don't be scared off applying to or attending these schools by people like that. Know that there are plenty of regular people just like you and me at these schools. We drive 8-year-old cars, we vacation to places like Syracuse and Cleveland, and we struggle to pay the mortgages on our three-bedroom houses in places like Rockville and College Park. Our children fit in just fine there.

[Anonymous]

Sorry for the typo -- "your", not "you're"

[Anonymous]

I went to private school along with my other sibs. My children go to private schools. We are not just talking about any private schools. We are talking about the most selective and prestigious. Most of the families are upper middle class from particular zip codes.

I can't speak for all private schools around the various and sundry neighborhood corners.

[Anonymous]

While it is true that at our "big-3," most families are NOT terribly well connected, it is hardly fair to call the families average. Most parents live SFHs or row houses in expensive neighborhoods, most have graduate degrees, most are professionals.

There is a difference, granted, between the family with a HHI of $200K vs $1M, but these differences are minute compared to families where the parents haven't graduated from college and have a HHI of $60K (the average in DC). The family earning $200K might have parents with PhDs who work for not-for-profit, where as the $1M might have two JDs who work for law firms. Different career choices, perhaps, but very similar SES.