DCPS pre-school choices for Columbia Heights?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Tubman, really?
I live 1 block from there.
My child goes to EL Haynes.

The profile looks pretty dismal:

English language learners: 40%
Free and reduced-price lunch 90%
Special education 7%
In-boundary 59%

Percentage of students meeting or exceeding reading standards on the DC CAS:
2009 43%
2010 45%

But, WOW, I just looked at Cooke and they are about the same, with LOWER DC CAS scores!

Percentage of students meeting or exceeding reading standards on the DC CAS:

2009 43%
2010 45%

Exactly! But there is one (or maybe two) very persistent booster who wants you to believe that there's some huge upswing in middle class parents dedicated to the Cooke. In a word - no. I get it that they want to improve their school, but it's disingenuous if not outright deceptive to promote it as a good school. It's not. It's FAR below the already dismal DC averages. There's certainly no reason to pick Cooke if you're already inbounds.

[Anonymous]

yes there is a reason to pick it.

I'm not a booster, not in-bounds, but if you get locked out of other choices (and you will, there's a huge baby boom for 3 yr olds this year plus tons of siblings in all the good, established programs), then you have to look at the school. You look at teaching, how they treat the children (are they yellers? A huge problem in some DCPS schools), principal/leadership, continuity, community support, facility, after-care options, specials, etc. If you focus on test scores of current 3-5th graders, who will be in high school by the time your child gets to 3rd grade, you are missing the boat. And the scores went up 2 points, which is a plus. If they got just 5 more points they would have made AYP using the bar set for previous years (50% proficient). This is an impoverished population with many second-language English learners-- they are going to struggle.

With more families with reading material at home and time and energy to spend on school activities the school will improve. You can see this happening all over the city and it's great. Is Cooke "as good as" EL Haynes? No, of course not, but EL Haynes has a 400 child waiting list for a handful of spots. You have to play the hand you are dealt, not the one you wish you could win thru the lottery.

[Anonymous]

To build on PP, I am looking at our neighborhood elementary on Cap Hill, Payne, if we don't get an OOB spot. Honestly, it doesn't sounds as good as Cooke. I still think it could be a better option for my family than EL Haynes or 2Rivers. A short commute to the school means more family time. I envision playdates with neighborhood kids. I know at Payne there is a great principal and that goes a long way to stop yelling and other problem classroom management issues.

[Anonymous]

Yes, do be critical of the one, two, or several outspoken, charismatic "boosters" at any of the low-performing schools. They may well be right, and their school may be on the upswing academically (due in large part to them and a handful of other like-minded parents). However, there's no guarantee. Just because the teachers are nice and the principal talks a good game does not ensure that your child will get a good education. Also, hearing that their child is happy at the neighborhood school is great and important--but doesn't mean a damn thing in terms of whether they'll get what they need academically. Just sayin.'

[Anonymous]

I would check out Barnard in Petworth if you are in upper Columbia Heights, or as long as you are looking at Bridges or Cooke. They have tours every Thursday morning.

[Anonymous]

Look at Tubman's math scores: 62% in 2010. And, their reading scores are on their way up. They had double didget jumps in math and reading between 2008 and 2009 and have improved from 09 to 10 (one of the only schools that did). I think their scores are impressive and that their principal is getting results.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:yes there is a reason to pick it.

I'm not a booster, not in-bounds, but if you get locked out of other choices (and you will, there's a huge baby boom for 3 yr olds this year plus tons of siblings in all the good, established programs), then you have to look at the school. You look at teaching, how they treat the children (are they yellers? A huge problem in some DCPS schools), principal/leadership, continuity, community support, facility, after-care options, specials, etc. If you focus on test scores of current 3-5th graders, who will be in high school by the time your child gets to 3rd grade, you are missing the boat. And the scores went up 2 points, which is a plus. If they got just 5 more points they would have made AYP using the bar set for previous years (50% proficient). This is an impoverished population with many second-language English learners-- they are going to struggle.

With more families with reading material at home and time and energy to spend on school activities the school will improve. You can see this happening all over the city and it's great. Is Cooke "as good as" EL Haynes? No, of course not, but EL Haynes has a 400 child waiting list for a handful of spots. You have to play the hand you are dealt, not the one you wish you could win thru the lottery.

Well said. 09:58, I think it is equally deceptive to base your decision on test scores for kids who started well before the current principal and the current teachers came on board. Look at the test scores for the 3rd graders in relation to their grade level two years ago (2008), and then look at those same kids in 5th grade last year (2010). There was a huge jump in proficiency for that cohort over two years. This shows that the current staff is doing a good job at taking kids who are majority below grade level and increasing the overall proficiency of the entire group of kids in just two years. I think signs like these are encouraging. I also love the "enrichment program" for the higher performing kids that they just started. I think they really try to reach all kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:yes there is a reason to pick it.

I'm not a booster, not in-bounds, but if you get locked out of other choices (and you will, there's a huge baby boom for 3 yr olds this year plus tons of siblings in all the good, established programs), then you have to look at the school. You look at teaching, how they treat the children (are they yellers? A huge problem in some DCPS schools), principal/leadership, continuity, community support, facility, after-care options, specials, etc. If you focus on test scores of current 3-5th graders, who will be in high school by the time your child gets to 3rd grade, you are missing the boat. And the scores went up 2 points, which is a plus. If they got just 5 more points they would have made AYP using the bar set for previous years (50% proficient). This is an impoverished population with many second-language English learners-- they are going to struggle.

With more families with reading material at home and time and energy to spend on school activities the school will improve. You can see this happening all over the city and it's great. Is Cooke "as good as" EL Haynes? No, of course not, but EL Haynes has a 400 child waiting list for a handful of spots. You have to play the hand you are dealt, not the one you wish you could win thru the lottery.

Well said. 09:58, I think it is equally deceptive to base your decision on test scores for kids who started well before the current principal and the current teachers came on board. Look at the test scores for the 3rd graders in relation to their grade level two years ago (2008), and then look at those same kids in 5th grade last year (2010). There was a huge jump in proficiency for that cohort over two years. This shows that the current staff is doing a good job at taking kids who are majority below grade level and increasing the overall proficiency of the entire group of kids in just two years. I think signs like these are encouraging. I also love the "enrichment program" for the higher performing kids that they just started. I think they really try to reach all kids.

If you are making decisions about where do send you PS-3 child based solely on the DC CAS scores of 3-5th graders you are a fool. Meet the boosters/PTA parents for your neighborhood school, you might be surprised. Certainly smarter to meet them than based your decision on the opinion of some anonymous poster's interpretation of CAS scores when that person obviously does not have a child at the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:yes there is a reason to pick it.

I'm not a booster, not in-bounds, but if you get locked out of other choices (and you will, there's a huge baby boom for 3 yr olds this year plus tons of siblings in all the good, established programs), then you have to look at the school. You look at teaching, how they treat the children (are they yellers? A huge problem in some DCPS schools), principal/leadership, continuity, community support, facility, after-care options, specials, etc. If you focus on test scores of current 3-5th graders, who will be in high school by the time your child gets to 3rd grade, you are missing the boat. And the scores went up 2 points, which is a plus. If they got just 5 more points they would have made AYP using the bar set for previous years (50% proficient). This is an impoverished population with many second-language English learners-- they are going to struggle.

With more families with reading material at home and time and energy to spend on school activities the school will improve. You can see this happening all over the city and it's great. Is Cooke "as good as" EL Haynes? No, of course not, but EL Haynes has a 400 child waiting list for a handful of spots. You have to play the hand you are dealt, not the one you wish you could win thru the lottery.

Well said. 09:58, I think it is equally deceptive to base your decision on test scores for kids who started well before the current principal and the current teachers came on board. Look at the test scores for the 3rd graders in relation to their grade level two years ago (2008), and then look at those same kids in 5th grade last year (2010). There was a huge jump in proficiency for that cohort over two years. This shows that the current staff is doing a good job at taking kids who are majority below grade level and increasing the overall proficiency of the entire group of kids in just two years. I think signs like these are encouraging. I also love the "enrichment program" for the higher performing kids that they just started. I think they really try to reach all kids.

If you are making decisions about where do send you PS-3 child based solely on the DC CAS scores of 3-5th graders you are a fool. Meet the boosters/PTA parents for your neighborhood school, you might be surprised. Certainly smarter to meet them than based your decision on the opinion of some anonymous poster's interpretation of CAS scores when that person obviously does not have a child at the school.

Au contraire. If you are making decisions about your child's elementary school without considering the only quantifiable evidence, you are a fool. Anything else is wishful thinking and boosterism.

Lots of DC schools exhibit the boosterism syndrome: the tendency of parents in the early years to desperately hype the school as "up and coming" "turning a corner" "newly engaged community" "the next great school" ad infinitum, ad nauseam. The Capitol Hill cluster parents have been flogging this horse for a couple of decades now; yet every year, middle class and upper-middle class students begin to exit the system in 1st grade, and the exodus accelerates with each subsequent year. You know who stays? The most economically disadvantaged, who - not surprisingly - do not perform as well, do not behave as well, and do not have options to leave. This has not changed, nor will it. Anyone who promises otherwise is selling you a bridge.

There is objective evidence and there is anecdotal "evidence" - the plural of anecdote is not data.

[Anonymous]

I don't agree with you. It has worked in certain cases. Brent comes to mind. I had friends in on the original effort to "boost" that school, and now it's desirable without a doubt. Things can change, and are changing.

[Anonymous]

I think visiting the school and observing and talking to parents of existing students are better ways of judging a school than test scores.

Someone above mentioned the Capitol Hill Cluster - I would more or less agree with what you say. But the middle class kids I know who did stick it out through Hobson have done incredibly well - with private high school and college admissions. I met a young guy who was a 10th grader at Sidwell who had come up through the cluster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If you are making decisions about where do send you PS-3 child based solely on the DC CAS scores of 3-5th graders you are a fool. Meet the boosters/PTA parents for your neighborhood school, you might be surprised. Certainly smarter to meet them than based your decision on the opinion of some anonymous poster's interpretation of CAS scores when that person obviously does not have a child at the school.

Au contraire. If you are making decisions about your child's elementary school without considering the only quantifiable evidence, you are a fool. Anything else is wishful thinking and boosterism.

Lots of DC schools exhibit the boosterism syndrome: the tendency of parents in the early years to desperately hype the school as "up and coming" "turning a corner" "newly engaged community" "the next great school" ad infinitum, ad nauseam. The Capitol Hill cluster parents have been flogging this horse for a couple of decades now; yet every year, middle class and upper-middle class students begin to exit the system in 1st grade, and the exodus accelerates with each subsequent year. You know who stays? The most economically disadvantaged, who - not surprisingly - do not perform as well, do not behave as well, and do not have options to leave. This has not changed, nor will it. Anyone who promises otherwise is selling you a bridge.

There is objective evidence and there is anecdotal "evidence" - the plural of anecdote is not data.

Based on this "analysis" any school that currently has low test scores can never have anything but low test scores because the people trying to turn around the school will inevitably fail and depart, leaving only the poor.

Plus, you are sort of proving my point -- if the reason the scores are low is b/c the population at the school is poor then the problem is not bad teachers or bad administration, it is a concentration of poor kids. So, its not like the school is inherently failing. If the population was more balanced, the school would serve the poor kids better AND be a fine place for middle class kid to also attend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't agree with you. It has worked in certain cases. Brent comes to mind. I had friends in on the original effort to "boost" that school, and now it's desirable without a doubt. Things can change, and are changing.

Brent's test scores are marginally better (46% Reading and 54% Math) than the DC average (42% and 38%) which is abysmal. Brent has plenty of wealthy Capitol Hill parents in Pre-K and K. For a school that aspires to be desirable, it has a lot of improving to do before it even approaches, say, Hearst (which is decidedly 2nd tier).