17 yo daughter cannot say "no"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I share your urgent concern about your daughter but I think you're missing something here. She is a great kid who has made poor choices and she is the sweetest kid in the world. Of course you want her to stop engaging in self-destructive behavior but that behavior doesn't fundamentally make her a bad, shameful person.

Well, as if I haven't cried enough the past few hours! lol Thank you for putting this into perspective, your are right. She's not some evil person and I need to remember that.

I'm researching therapists right now. My latest obstacle is that I may need to take her to an ER to have her mentally checked out because last night during our punishment/argument confrontation, I said "I'm not going to have to worry about you committing suicide over this, am I?" to which she responded "maybe you do". I *think* she was just trying to push my buttons, but I made her sleep in my room last night and I took her to school this morning and will pick her up. (She knows this is a hot button with me, since her dad and I sometimes discuss his troops that are under suicide watch.) But, regardless if she was serious, a new therapist I called will not see her without first having her evaluated at an ER. This may be a blessing in disguise, though, since it will help point me in the right direction. Her PCM thinks taking her to the ER will make her realize the severity of her "threat" as well. I'm having a hard time with it though, because I don't want her stigmatized as a psycho, for lack of a better word to express my feeling.

I cannot express enough thanks to you posters for the advice. (Even the vibrator advice!! lol Which, as uncomfortable as that will be, is a good idea!) I haven't been able to open up to friends or family about this and the help I'm getting here has relieved lots of stress. (I usually frequent the other forums on this board, as I'm expecting a baby next month.) Thank you all and I will keep checking back with updates and to look for any more suggestions.

[Anonymous]

Good luck, OP. You're a great mom for trying to help your daughter. Hang in there!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm at my wit's end, my 17 year old daughter can't seem to say no to sex. She's had multiple partners over the past couple of years, most being one night stands. She caught clamydia a couple of months ago, and after treatment, I was sure she "learned her lesson" and would discontinue. However, I just found out tonight that she had another one night stand with someone she "doesn't even like" last Friday night.

She feels guilty afterwards, swears to herself it will never happen again, but it still happens. I'm sure it's a self esteem issue. I take her to monthly counseling, which she tells me she doesn't need, but she must have the counselor fooled as he thinks she's the best kid, but continues seeing her to enforce good behavior. I have tried making her go to youth group, young lives meetings, etc., but she keeps falling into the same patterns.

I will find out, and will ground her. She'll stay home, be punished, whatever, for a length of time, and convince me all is fine and she's turned over a new leaf. I'll give her an inch, such as allowing her to go to dinner with 2 friends last Friday, then find out she ended up having sex instead. I can't keep her locked in the house forever can I? She'll be 18 next month and has a full ride scholarship to a university next year that I can't allow her to jeopardize.

What kind of counseling, or classes, or what will teach her some self-control, self-worth, etc.? I just don't know what to do with her anymore.

thank you for any advice you can give.

Based on the sheer numbers that hook-up I don't think it's a self esteem issue with this group. Girls who attend lots of parties, hang out with the bros, and nothing is special. Sometimes the girls initiate NOT the boys. I just don't know but I can tell you that your DD's promiscuity might not produce any guilt. STD's.

[Anonymous]

I agree that you need a different therapist, one who will take your daughter's risky behavior more seriously, but I hope you will consider talking to one yourself.

I may be misinterpreting something, but it seems to me that you are prone to overreaction: putting a 7-year-old in therapy for 9 months over playing doctor, making a 17-year-old sleep in your room and escorting her to and from school over the word suicide spoken once in the heat of the argument. All of these feel like extreme overreactions to me. The STD is very worrying, yes, but one need not sleep with a hundred people to get one, one only has to be unlucky once. Exactly how many partners has your daughter had over the last year? Are her feelings of guilt caused by the way she feels afterward or by your shaming?

Regarding sex addiction, please read this:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21646830/ns/health-sexual_health/


Even if her behavior is addictive, there are a lot of studies out there showing the addiction model will often backfire with adolescents who engage in drug and alcohol abuse. Basically, by telling someone who is still learning to control his impulses that he is an addict, he has no control over his behavior and has no other choice but surrender to a higher power, would cause him to do it more, not less.

Please think before you pathologize the most beautiful and natural thing of all, a young woman expressing her sexuality. There are much worse things than being remembered as the school slut, and lifelong feelings of shame and guilt surrounding sex is one of them.

Continue talking to her about safe sex and self-respect. Arrange for her to stumble into a "discarded" vibrator still in its packaging (don't give it as a gift, that's just eeew.) But perhaps you need to loosen the reigns a little, and let your daughter make more of the decisions about her life -- where to go after school, who to sleep with, which therapist to see. She will be in college next year, and if she does not get to practice some independence while still under your roof, it is not going to end well.

[Anonymous]

A few quotes from a renowned sex therapist's article on "sex addiction" (long but worth reading in its entirety):

http://www.sexed.org/archive/article08.html

Addictionologists have cynically misled the public into thinking that "sexual addiction" is a concept respected and used by sex therapists and educators. Even a brief look at our literature, conferences, and popular writing shows how rarely this is true.
...
The concept of sexual addiction colludes with peoples' desire to shirk responsibility for their sexuality.
...
It prevents helpful analysis by patients and therapists.
...
It trivializes sexuality.
...
It makes a disease out of what is often within reasonable limits of sexual behavior.
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It doesn't teach sexual decision-making skills or how to evaluate sexual situations.
...
Rather, the concept uses a "just say no" approach. As experience with family planning shows, "just say no" helps people abstain from self-destructive sex about as well as "have a nice day" helps people deal with depression.

[Anonymous]

OP, is it possible she was molested or raped? It can lead to promiscuity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again: Thanks everyone, I'm going to start calling around for a new, female, therapist today. Do you think it should still be a child/adolescent therapist, or a sex therapist, or what?

She does take adderall for ADD, what medication were you thinking 22:50? Maybe something geared toward addictive behavior?

Great point 6:05, one I am going to remind her of. Researching last night made me aware that I've been trying to shame her into not doing this, and I need to take the shame out of it, and just make solid logical points about her reputation, health risks, future, etc. But right now, besides all the fear for her safely, I am ashamed of her and just can't get past that.

OP, you sound like a caring and devoted mother, and I sincerely believe your daughter knows this, even if her words and behavior don't always acknowledge it.

So much great advice above, especially to look for a therapist with whom she may connect better. I agree that finding a woman therapist could be a big benefit.

The other thought is that perhaps you might think about some counseling for yourself, too. Getting extra support to help with a difficult situation is always a good idea in my book.

Good luck to you both!!

[Anonymous]

I think having sex at 17 is not uncommon, but the fact that these are one night stands with people she regrets having had sex with is more the issue to me. I agree with the posters who said to keep looking for a better fit for a therapist, and also work on self-esteem boosters. She needs to know that she is valued for more than her body, but for who she is as a person- even if she's not sure who that is yet. Provide her with condoms and talk about safer sex too- some STDs are forever, and others are deadly, that's a hard fact to get into invincible 17 year olds, but true.

[Anonymous]

For the PP who suggested that maybe this is just a healthy expression of the girl's sexuality, I disagree. I don't want my sons involved in a series of one-night stands, and I wouldn't want a daughter doing that either. She's too young, it makes her feel badly, and it is potentially dangerous.

[Anonymous]

OP, you may have already said this, but is she drinking/doing drugs during these sex acts?

[Anonymous]

Being bi-polar can lead to hypersexual activity where one engages in intimate behavior with people they normally wouldn't even speak to. It can also lead to one having suicidal thoughts.

Get a therapist and make sure she is female. In the meantime don't say anything that really won't be helpful at this time i.e- why are you such a whore or things like that. Show her as much love as you possibly can.

[Anonymous]

Is there a positive male father figure who she gets sufficient attention from? Perhaps increasing this might offset any attention seeking component of the behavior?

[Anonymous]

19:03, I am the person who said "do not pathologize". I agree that one night stands are dangerous for one's reputation, self-esteem and physical safety. Also that the fact that the young lady feels shame and powerlessness (exacerbated, I believe, by her loving mother's over-reaction) means that what is going on is not entirely healthy and both mother and daughter could benefit from seeing therapists (of their own choice!)

But sexuality is a powerful, basic urge. Hard to ignore, hard to control, it can bring immense pain as well as incredible pleasure. It would be a boring world indeed in which everyone exercised perfect control over their sexual urges at all times and children's sexuality was only expressed in ways their parents approved of.

I also want to reiterate another point I made earlier. The young lady is 17. She will be off to college in a few months, where her loving mother can no longer protect her. It is time for the mother to let go a little and rest in the knowledge that she raised, not a good kid, but a good adult. An adult who will continue making mistakes and doing things she will regret and that her parents are better off not knowing about, because this is what adults do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For the PP who suggested that maybe this is just a healthy expression of the girl's sexuality, I disagree. I don't want my sons involved in a series of one-night stands, and I wouldn't want a daughter doing that either. She's too young, it makes her feel badly, and it is potentially dangerous.

Yes, but you can't just put a stop to it b/c you don't like it when they are 17... if only it were that easy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again: Thanks everyone, I'm going to start calling around for a new, female, therapist today. Do you think it should still be a child/adolescent therapist, or a sex therapist, or what?

She does take adderall for ADD, what medication were you thinking 22:50? Maybe something geared toward addictive behavior?

Great point 6:05, one I am going to remind her of. Researching last night made me aware that I've been trying to shame her into not doing this, and I need to take the shame out of it, and just make solid logical points about her reputation, health risks, future, etc. But right now, besides all the fear for her safely, I am ashamed of her and just can't get past that.

Find, if you can, a psychiatrist who can manage meds and do therapy, has experience with mood disorders and is a woman. Is it possible that your child may be experiencing early signs of bipolar depression? Bipolar and ADD have many similar symptoms and I know many families where the child was initially diagnosed as ADD but later (late adolescence or 20s) it became clearer that the problem was bipolar depression. The mania of bipolar can often be highly sexual. Impulsivity is also a feature of bipolar. Many families (where the real problem was bipolar not ADD) also found that the stimulant medications prescribed for ADD actually drove the mania higher. This is not uncommon.

Speak to a psychiatrist who can screen for these issues and really make some good decisions about medication.

Also, maybe you can try and reframe your own approach. I would not be talking to my daughter so much about "making bad decisions." I would be talking more honestly about sex. As in .... it's a great amazing thing, but in the wrong hands or with the wrong person, it can be a disaster.... I'm wondering why you would want to have sex with someone you don't even really like? Do you feel pressured? Is it boredom, being with the right crowd, what?" It's hard to have this kind of very open conversation about sex, if you're castigating her at the same time for "making bad decisions." Have you talked with her much about sex beyond the -- it has bad consequences, don't do it speech? I mean, part of growing up is finding the right sex partner and making the right decisions about sex (use a condom always and a second form of birth control), think about the character of the person you're with and how they're going to treat you, first love isn't always forever love, etc. That is, unless you're a don't have sex until marriage parent .... And, (gently said) maybe you need to address your own issues with your early sexuality at the same time you're dealing with hers?