I Guess the Deficit Doesn't Really Matter

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

Nice rant. Now explain how adding over $300 to the national debt solves the deficit crisis. Remember, last week the deficit was the most important thing ever

It seems like you've bought the Republicans' line, Jeff - you're assuming there actually is a "deficit crisis." I'd argue that, in the midst of a deep recession, and attempting to stave off a depression, the deficit isn't actually a bad thing. Or rather that feer of a deficit shouldn't keep us from attending to other, more pressing, priorities.

Obviously sarcasm doesn't convey well in forum posts. But, where have you been? For months we've all been told by the "Wisest Men in Washington" that nothing mattered more than the deficit. The President formed a commission to study deficit reduction. They were on the news almost every night. Alan Simpson even talked about tits. They said the deficit was a cancer. I got so scared, I've been sleeping under my bed for the past week afraid the deficit would jump out of my closet and eat me. If that wasn't bad enough, Obama proposed freezing the pay of federal employees so that their colas could be fed to the deficit monster. The unemployed were told they couldn't get extended unemployment payments because the deficit monster was very angry.

So, imagine my surprise when suddenly Obama and the Republicans -- the only people on earth that understood the importance of combatting the deficit -- suddenly agreed to add to the deficit. What? Could it be? Is it possible that the Obama and his Republican buddies were not being honest about the deficit? Was that all a ploy to trick the rubes into supporting the federal pay freeze and cutting off unemployment payments? And, now that I think about it, why didn't Republicans care about the deficit when Bush was turning a record surplus into a record deficit? Wow, all of my core beliefs about the honesty of our political leaders is being called into question. If you can't trust Obama and the Congressional Republicans, who can you trust?

Seriously, nobody ever cared about the deficit. Republicans have always believed that tax cuts and wars are free. The deficit was simply a good club to use against Democrats anytime they proposed any idea that cost money. The real crime here is how demonstrably clear it is that our elected officials believe the American people are idiots. They can talk about the deficit for months, then add to it in a blink of an eye, and not expect anyone to notice. I guess the American people will have to show if they really are such idiots.

[Anonymous]

Government spending has never been cut...ever. Taxes usually go up and sometimes go down. This current bill is a tax freeze it is not a decrease in rate just status quo. The Goverment has drastically increased spending and will not stop. The entire deficit is rooted in wild, unsustainable spending. Military and defense are the only items that are indespensable.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:Government spending has never been cut...ever. Taxes usually go up and sometimes go down. This current bill is a tax freeze it is not a decrease in rate just status quo. The Goverment has drastically increased spending and will not stop. The entire deficit is rooted in wild, unsustainable spending. Military and defense are the only items that are indespensable.

The current proposal -- it's not a bill yet -- is not simply a freeze. It includes $120 billion in lost revenue due to the payroll tax holiday and $40 billion in refundable tax credits. In case you forgot, refundable tax credits are the ones that Republicans really hate because that is money paid out to people who don't pay income tax. Of course there is also extended unemployment benefits -- that's $56 billion. There's $180 billion in business investment tax credits. And, last but certainly not least, $95 billion that is the cost of keeping the status quo for those making over $250,000.

Your budget analysis is similarly off target. Social Security basically pays or itself. Interest on the debt is not negotiable -- you just can't decide to cut it. Military spending is not touchable unless you are a communist Muslim (and even then not touchable if your name is Barack). The left-over discretionary spending doesn't amount to a hill of beans. That leaves Medicare and Medicaid, which not only are a big current budget item, but is where most of the growth is going forward. So, either you have to start goring the sacred military cow or increase revenue. We've chosen not to do either, so good luck to us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Government spending has never been cut...ever. Taxes usually go up and sometimes go down. This current bill is a tax freeze it is not a decrease in rate just status quo. The Goverment has drastically increased spending and will not stop. The entire deficit is rooted in wild, unsustainable spending. Military and defense are the only items that are indespensable.

It depends on what you mean. The tax cut was passed as a temporary measure. It had an expiration date. This is what the White House said about its tax package:

The nation needs quick action by our Congress on a pro-growth economic package," Bush told a gathering of small business owners in Washington. "We need tax relief totaling at least $550 billion to make sure our economy grows, and American workers and American businesses need every bit of that relief now so that people who want to find a job can find one."

So its purpose was economic stimulus. It didn't work, but that's another matter. The point is that the tax rate was lowered for a finite time period for the specific purpose of stimulating growth.

We can argue the merits of the tax cut. But let's not get amnesia. The Dems could do the same thing about the payroll tax rate cut or jobless benefits.

Lastly, we spend far more on defense than other large nations, even nations who face substantial terrorist threats. And even as a percentage of GDP it is true. Everyone agrees that we need defense. But we should not be allowed to pretend that the only right number is the number today. We spend almost 7 times what China spends, ten times the UK, and 14 times what Germany spends. We spend ten times what the Russians spend. And as a percentage of GDP, we are only exceeded by a handful of Arab nations and nations facing war within their borders, plus North Korea. In total, 43% of military spending worldwide is the U.S.

So you can argue that the military is indispensible, but it is more than reasonable to ask how much is necessary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Government spending has never been cut...ever. Taxes usually go up and sometimes go down. This current bill is a tax freeze it is not a decrease in rate just status quo. The Goverment has drastically increased spending and will not stop. The entire deficit is rooted in wild, unsustainable spending. Military and defense are the only items that are indespensable.

If we spend 5x what the Chinese spend on defense, our national security will be at risk. Only spending 7x what the Chinese spend, and 43% of all global arms expenditures, will we be truly safe.

Sorry, defense has to be looked at, the same as everything else. Western Europe and Northeast Asia are perfectly capable of surviving w/o our ground forces -- even in the Korean Peninsula it is our 7th Fleet that is a true threat to Kim whoever's in charge as opposed to our 30k soldiers (ROK army has 522k soldiers of which I am imagine nearly all are facing northwards.)

The Cold War was against (for the most part) a highly centralized enemy with the ability to invest comparable sums of money in their own defense infrastructure. You can't argue al-Qa'eda is able to marshal the same sort of resources than the Soviet bloc was able to marshal.

[Anonymous]

That leaves Medicare and Medicaid, which not only are a big current budget item, but is where most of the growth is going forward. So, either you have to start goring the sacred military cow or increase revenue.

yes, defense needs cut (weapons systems, not soldiers' pay), but your statement above makes no sense. The "sacred cows" we should focus on are those that are the big ticket items drivign a wildly escalating deficit - Medicare and Medicaid. If we keep tinkering with everything else but let health costs keep writing a blank check the problem never goes away.It is not inherently evil to recognize that we cannot afford to pay for all the medical care that this country might wish to have.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
yes, defense needs cut (weapons systems, not soldiers' pay), but your statement above makes no sense. The "sacred cows" we should focus on are those that are the big ticket items drivign a wildly escalating deficit - Medicare and Medicaid. If we keep tinkering with everything else but let health costs keep writing a blank check the problem never goes away.It is not inherently evil to recognize that we cannot afford to pay for all the medical care that this country might wish to have.

You are correct, of course. I think I lost my train of thought in that message so I didn't say everything I had planned to. But, Medicare and Medicaid can't be solved simply as a budget item. As you say, healthcare costs must be addressed and any deficit-reduction plan that doesn't focus on them is not serious. But, that has to be addressed as part of a larger focus on healthcare. If you simply start cutting those programs, you literally would have to have death panels (as Arizona does today).