Anyone with a twice exceptiona kid (gifted + LD) who can recommend a school that "gets it"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like you need a lawyer. It is not enough to say to an LD kid that because they are on grade level, they are not entitled to services. She is still entitled. I second the advocate recommendation to help you write the correct IEP and then a lawyer if they don't deliver.

Agree with the PP that not being behind grade level is not the definition of "impact."

For IEP you need to show 1) disability and 2) impact on education. I found the NOLO IEP guide (search on Amazon) useful in explaining how "impact" can be defined by state/federal law.

Old (and explicitly discarded by USDoEd under IDEA) is called the "wait to fail" model. Start throwing that term around; it has a specific meaning. Then there used to be "discrepancy" model -- where child was showing a discrepancy between assessed cognitive ability (i.e. IQ type testing) and performance. In discrepancy model, a kid who tests in 99.9%ile for IQ, but is writing "on grade" is showing the "impact" of their disability. Discrepancy model has been determined (again by US DoE under IDEA) to not be necessary for impact showing (i.e. if you can show discrepancy you can use it to prove impact, but if there is no discrepancy that is not determinative). Most popular formula/theory for showing impact is "response to intervention" I still don't understand exactly what the hell that means, but it seems to be something along the lines of ... if your child isn't responding to class teaching methods, then that's an impact.

It is definitely harder to show impact of learning disabilities for GT kids, not impossible, but harder and you have to document carefully. Also, the impact might not be so apparent until child is in 3rd+ grades where work becomes more complex and increase in independent work prevents kids from using some of their social tricks that have been helping them skate by.

Check MCPS. We have several GT/ADD kids in the HGC at my child's school. There is also a GT/LD specialist named Marisa Stemple (I think) and some "bridge" programs for GT kids with more extensive LDs. I'm not sure how these bridge programs are faring under recent budget cuts.

[Anonymous]

12:39 here -- we are at Canterbury Woods GT center.

[Anonymous]

Another PP here and my child is at Mantua.

[Anonymous]

OP said her dd did not qualify for an IEP, so I don't think a lawyer is going to do you any good.

[Anonymous]

She does not qualify for an IEP because achievement test scores are too high,

This is a wrong assumption. You get an IEP because of the disability, not because of your test scores.

OP: go get an educational consultant and start the road to get an IEP in place. If you tried before and were turned down, the consultant can guide you, and to pay for the tests that you will need to prove the problems. I have a 2E child and have had to go down this path because there is an assumption at the school level that if you test proficient, you don't need help. My DS is now getting OT, special ed pull-out, accomodations and executive functioning coaching.

[Anonymous]

OP here again. I understand what you're saying about what the law requires. And I do have private testing to support the disability. But here's the thing -- I honestly don't think that even if I "won" and got her an IEP that the services they would provide would be worth anything. I have not been impressed with our school's specialists, they seem to rotate out on a yearly basis, and they do not use any of the solid research based programs. So I really can't justify going to the expense of a consultant or an attorney when I am not convinced that my current school has the proper staff and resources to give my DD what she needs.

Also, I am really concerned that the method in which DD is taught is incompatible with her learning style. For example, she is in compacted math and does really well with concepts. But she just can't get her math facts down. They use the Everyday Math curriculum and work right out of the workbook during classtime, which she hates. Then homework is more of the same. She really needs a multisensory, non-repetitive approach that doesn't focus so heavily on computation. I just can't see them revamping the entire math curriculum for her, no matter if I get an IEP or a 504.

Our GT center is Willow Springs and my initial conversation with the GT coordinator there was discouraging. She said I'd be better off staying at our homebased school. So I am wondering how difficult it is to get a pupil placement. I have heard that pupil placement at Mantua is impossible, but I am wondering about Canterbury Woods. If anyone can give me more details of their personal experience, that would be helpful. If it came down to it, moving to another neighborhood wouldn't be entirely out of the question is I could ascertain whether the school was good with 2E.

I'm also exploring private options, but haven't found anything within a reasonable driving distance that would be significantly better than our current situation.

Right now, my daughter is miserable so I feel like I need to do something as soon as possible.

Thanks everyone for your help!

[Anonymous]

I'm an adult now but I was in your daughter's situation. My test scores were exactly what you describe. From personal experience I would highly recommend a GT program or magnet or GT/LD program if available. You can supplement her "learning style" needs with pull out programs and tutors but it's so important, in my opinion to keep her in a program that is challenging and keeps her with cognitive peers.

I think a high quality private school or public magnet would be optimal.....and supplement with tutoring as needed. A child like that is SO AWARE and abstract reasoning is amazing. You need to focus on the strengths and provide help for the weaknesses versus focusing on the weaknesses which would frustrate your child to pieces.

[Anonymous]

PP again...

Also, I wanted to recommend visiting the Hoagies Gifted site. There is a huge amount of information on 2E kids....

On a positive note....2E children are something to behold....don't forget to enjoy it!

[Anonymous]

18:45 here:

I think you still need help if that is what the GT coordinator told you. This is not only about services, it is about her "placement" and to ensure she gets assigned to the right program for her. If they won't easily let you transfer her, then you will have to push for it.

[Anonymous]

OP, have you considered contacting the FCPS AAP office? You may want to start there to ask advice.


http://www.fcps.edu/DIS/gt/directory.html

Dr. Carol V. Horn
K-12 Program Coordinator
[e-mail]

FAIRFAX RIDGE BUILDING
3877 Fairfax Ridge Rd - 3rd Floor
Fairfax, VA 22030
[phone]
[phone] (Fax)

[Anonymous]

OP I don't know anything about your center school, but I wouldn't rule it out just based on the comments of the GT coordinator. Your child might be far better served at the GT center than at the neighborhood school.

Yes, you CAN get your child's math curriculum changed just for her, if her needs are documented in an IEP.

I think a consultation with a consultant/advocate who is well versed in these matters would be your best bet -- especially if you are going so far as to consider private school or even MOVING. They may be able to help you push for placement at a different school if that's what your daughter needs.

[Anonymous]

FWIW, if your child has been accepted into the Level IV program, they cannot deny you entry into the center. They may discourage you, but you officially place them through the central office, not through the center school. I was discouraged from placing my child into the center by both the base school and by people at the center (not the GT coordinator) but I talked to Carol Horn at the central office and it was no issue at all. I never actually spoke to the GT coordinator at our center at all during the transfer process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here again. I understand what you're saying about what the law requires. And I do have private testing to support the disability. But here's the thing -- I honestly don't think that even if I "won" and got her an IEP that the services they would provide would be worth anything. I have not been impressed with our school's specialists, they seem to rotate out on a yearly basis, and they do not use any of the solid research based programs. So I really can't justify going to the expense of a consultant or an attorney when I am not convinced that my current school has the proper staff and resources to give my DD what she needs.

What I'd be looking for in your case is placement for your daughter at a GT Center program, with appropriate accomodations and instruction for her disabilit as defined by an IEP. If the specialists at the GT center school aren't using research based programs, that's a big problem -- but they are supposed to be using just that, and an advocate can help you demand that.

[Anonymous]

OP again...wow! thank you all for that encouragement. It is also interesting to hear from an adult who has lived the 2e life to help me help my daughter, since I myself don't have any learning issues. Yes, I have read for 2e that is is more important to focus on the gifts than the LD, but sometimes it is hard to remember as I tend to focus more on what needs fixing then on what needs nurturing. This is a good reminder for me.

I have had such negative experiences with FCPS for so many years that it is hard for me to believe that there actually might be a Center where my daughter could do well. So has anyone here had any experience with pupil placement -- I have heard that is an extremely high hurdle? Also, anyone with personal experience with a good 2E advocate? I know about Rich Weinstein by reputation only, but am more interested in personal experiences if anyone can share?

Thanks again everyone for taking the time to respond. This is really helpful, as I feel really alone in muddling through this by myself.

[Anonymous]

OP, so you have a diagnosis from an outside expert? Have you requested an IEP/504 meeting? Unlike what the PP said, I have been told that if your child is on grade level, it is VERY hard to get an IEP without an ASD diagnosis. But we had absolutely no trouble getting my child a 504 based on a letter from her therapist. While I agree that a particular school or teacher may not be that great at accommodating, the plan travels with them as they move school to school and teacher to teacher and it gives you leverage. I would totally get some type of plan if you can. Start the process now because it can take several months.

I would also ask about switching to the center now. I was discouraged from doing this last year, and it was really a mistake. I should have switched her mid year when it became clear that remaining at the base school was a mistake for her. I have since found out that people switch in mid year all.the.time.

And I personally would NOT trust the word of the GT coordinator. From my experience in our center, the GT coordinator has little to no experience with the hands on day to day class stuff.

Are you on the FCAG Yahoo group? I know there has been discussion about Willow Springs there, but I am not personally that familiar with it.