English teachers -- WHY art assignments???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's almost as if classes have academic overlap and feature a wide spectrum of abilities. If you have an issue with art in an English class then maybe we should outlaw writing papers in Social Studies because paper writing should only be in English class. We shouldn't expect any mathematic formulas or computing in a Physics class because that stuff should only be in Math.

Uh what? These analogies are terrible. Math is a fundamental part of physics and social studies papers are a means to assess whether students can analyze and synthesize the material, which is essential to understanding social studies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree there should be an alternative assignment option. The art ones used to make my kid miserable. He would agonize over them and endure so much stress, and for what? Even if fun for the majority of kids, why put the others through it when it is not even pedagogically pertinent?

Because regular English assignments make some kids miserable and we force them to work at it and engage in the struggle and do their best and learn and improve even when it’s hard. Those are good experiences for your child to have too. Not everything is easy, and these assignments are valuable precisely because they flip the script on which kids it’s hard for and which kids it’s easy for. Teach your kids there’s value in working hard at something that doesn’t come easily to them and stop complaining that teachers give assignments your kids aren’t naturally good at. Believe it or not, communicating through pictures is also an English class skill - political cartoons, propaganda, marketing, advertising. All different types of relevant English course skills and knowledge.

That’s all fine and good but some people literally cannot become artistic. We can all be taught the basics of grammar and punctuation and structure of writing and improve. But some of us could take 100 art classes and still not be able to draw beyond a stick figure.

You 100% can get better with instruction and practice. You won’t be gifted, but you can improve. Lots of kids go to school and spend all day doing tasks in which they will never be gifted and will never find them easy and will never end up with as good of a product as Larlo over there. It’s ok for your kid to also experience that feeling once in a while.

Also, no non-art teacher is going to dock your kid points because an image on a poster was traced rather than drawn free-hand. It may not be possible for your kid to get to “impressive” but they can get to “serviceable”. The problem OP is describing is a kid who is used to easily producing “impressive” work and can’t handle the fact that on this project they may work really hard and only get to “serviceable.”

Right, it's not like art is all about talent whereas other fields are not... I hated sports growing up, I still had to do PE. I was a bad runner and became somewhat better over time. I was bad at music and became somewhat better over time. I do actually have some artistic talent and have also improved over time by practicing more. Everything has a nature and a nurture component, not sure why it would be different for art.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree there should be an alternative assignment option. The art ones used to make my kid miserable. He would agonize over them and endure so much stress, and for what? Even if fun for the majority of kids, why put the others through it when it is not even pedagogically pertinent?

Because regular English assignments make some kids miserable and we force them to work at it and engage in the struggle and do their best and learn and improve even when it’s hard. Those are good experiences for your child to have too. Not everything is easy, and these assignments are valuable precisely because they flip the script on which kids it’s hard for and which kids it’s easy for. Teach your kids there’s value in working hard at something that doesn’t come easily to them and stop complaining that teachers give assignments your kids aren’t naturally good at. Believe it or not, communicating through pictures is also an English class skill - political cartoons, propaganda, marketing, advertising. All different types of relevant English course skills and knowledge.

That’s all fine and good but some people literally cannot become artistic. We can all be taught the basics of grammar and punctuation and structure of writing and improve. But some of us could take 100 art classes and still not be able to draw beyond a stick figure.

Students should be given a choice between the "art" project and a written assignment. To this day (and I'm over 50) I can't draw anything that would resemble an actual object or person. There are plenty of ways for a child to show mastery of a subject without the pressure and anxiety of creating art. If you want them to demonstrate with pictures, let them cut things out of magazine. More importantly, why is a 9th grader wasting their time of these types of assignments. These kids can't write anymore and don't get me started on grammar and punctuation. They most definitely will need those things to succeed in life. And for those who say that kids go to school and have to deal with difficult tasks, asking a child who is not artistic to "just try" (and then get graded on it) is not comparable to writing, math, and analytical skills.

[Anonymous]

Interesting debate, I think I sort of see both sides.

I think where I come down is art projects are fine occasionally in ES & MS, but by HS they're not really appropriate. I think the primary focus of an English class should be language, which means words.

[Anonymous]

As an English teacher, I often add visual components to assignments but students have an option to draw or find images from the internet that support their understanding. A lot of times it will be asking for a Google slide presentation where each paragraph is on it's own slide that has some sort of creative visual appeal to it. It's basically the same 5 paragraph essay but now it allows students to express themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree there should be an alternative assignment option. The art ones used to make my kid miserable. He would agonize over them and endure so much stress, and for what? Even if fun for the majority of kids, why put the others through it when it is not even pedagogically pertinent?

Because regular English assignments make some kids miserable and we force them to work at it and engage in the struggle and do their best and learn and improve even when it’s hard. Those are good experiences for your child to have too. Not everything is easy, and these assignments are valuable precisely because they flip the script on which kids it’s hard for and which kids it’s easy for. Teach your kids there’s value in working hard at something that doesn’t come easily to them and stop complaining that teachers give assignments your kids aren’t naturally good at. Believe it or not, communicating through pictures is also an English class skill - political cartoons, propaganda, marketing, advertising. All different types of relevant English course skills and knowledge.

That’s all fine and good but some people literally cannot become artistic. We can all be taught the basics of grammar and punctuation and structure of writing and improve. But some of us could take 100 art classes and still not be able to draw beyond a stick figure.

You 100% can get better with instruction and practice. You won’t be gifted, but you can improve. Lots of kids go to school and spend all day doing tasks in which they will never be gifted and will never find them easy and will never end up with as good of a product as Larlo over there. It’s ok for your kid to also experience that feeling once in a while.

Also, no non-art teacher is going to dock your kid points because an image on a poster was traced rather than drawn free-hand. It may not be possible for your kid to get to “impressive” but they can get to “serviceable”. The problem OP is describing is a kid who is used to easily producing “impressive” work and can’t handle the fact that on this project they may work really hard and only get to “serviceable.”

NP. None of these classes actually involve instruction or meaningful practice on the artistic components. It's a occasional assignment that you either come in being able to do or you don't and then get graded on. The writing parts of English precisely aren't like that. There's a lot of repetition and instruction and chances for the kids who aren't naturally talented to improve their writing in English class than doesn't exist for a kid who can't draw and gets a random poster assignment.

[Anonymous]

Design it online, print, have him trace it.

[Anonymous]

This is a ridiculous thread. It’s like saying there should be no oral presentations in class because some kids freak out and do a terrible job while other kids are naturally gifted speakers. The point of school is to stretch kids and push them out of their comfort zone. That’s when real growth and development happens. As long as only a minority of assignments require art, these types of assignments are perfectly fine in any class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interesting debate, I think I sort of see both sides.

I think where I come down is art projects are fine occasionally in ES & MS, but by HS they're not really appropriate. I think the primary focus of an English class should be language, which means words.

You are so far removed from what actually happens in high schools. Most kids are completely zoned out and on their phones. They use ai to get their writing assignments done. Teachers have to mix it up to increase engagement. Stop giving advice when you are completely clueless about present day education

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:English teachers, why do you assign projects that require illustrations, creating colorful posters, etc.? Isn't English supposed to measure your capacity to read, write, and understand what you have read and write? My child has MAJOR, EXTREME challenges with art. Like used to sit and cry in preschool when coloring was assigned because it was so stressful. He's an excellent reader and writer! He loves literature! But he will likely fail this project because he really cannot create a colorful poster with illustrations. Why do you do this to students? Why can't you assign alternatives, like write a 5 page essay OR create a colorful poster? Why are they graded on their art skills in English?

Basically all my children hate these "art" assignments in their non-art classes. My youngest child spent hours trying to make an illustration for an English class, and the teacher gave them a bad grade because they said it looked like they had drawn it in 5 minutes. This is a 9th grade English class, not an art class! Why can't they actually read a novel, instead of spending time on art projects?

Humans have multiple intelligences, including visual intelligence. Allowing students to express themselves visually plays to certain students' strength and allows what is for most students a fun assignment to reinforce readings and allow students to express their interpretation.

You should talk to teachers if your child is highly anxious about such an assignment. No need to complain on DCUM - talk to your student's teacher about an alternative assignment. That's your job as a parent and adult - to problem-solve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a ridiculous thread. It’s like saying there should be no oral presentations in class because some kids freak out and do a terrible job while other kids are naturally gifted speakers. The point of school is to stretch kids and push them out of their comfort zone. That’s when real growth and development happens. As long as only a minority of assignments require art, these types of assignments are perfectly fine in any class.

Exactly.

I’m an English teacher. The bulk of my assignments are paragraphs and essays. Occasionally I throw in some creative options so students can illustrate (literally) that they understand a text’s theme, use of imagery, etc.

I learned long ago that I’ll have critics no matter what I do. I’ll assign too much, too little. My grades and comments will be too harsh or not harsh enough. I’ll be too rigid or too accommodating.

So now I do what feels right and I don’t worry if I miss someone’s boat every now and then. OP, can your kid’s stick figures show me understanding of the social anxiety present in Eliot’s “The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock”? If so, we’re good.

[Anonymous]

Agree. My kid is in college, but I still remember the pain of kindergarten packets "walk through your neighborhood and draw signs of spring," 2nd grade making a caterpillar, 7th or maybe 8th grade Spanish where they had ti make a locker, decorate it, and label it in Spanish amd so many more.

One teacher in 4th gave them options for every assignment, paper, diorama or PowerPoint - he did PowerPoint for every single one

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interesting debate, I think I sort of see both sides.

I think where I come down is art projects are fine occasionally in ES & MS, but by HS they're not really appropriate. I think the primary focus of an English class should be language, which means words.

Nope. There aren’t two sides. Parents should stay in their lane. They are clueless about how much teaching and learning has evolved from 25 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is the idea that the student should be able to identify what images would enhance the text? (Ie, illustrations to show visually what part of the text is describing, etc?) If so, I wonder if your child could look appropriate images up on the internet to include with proper attribution, or could ask their teacher if they could include a statement saying what notes they'd provide to a graphic designer to request the appropriate imagery (ie, "overhead image of modern-day Pompeii, including Mount Vesuvius in the background and ruins of the [xyz building]. For reference image, please see [web address]").

Both kids different teachers explicitly told they could NOT use images from online.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree there should be an alternative assignment option. The art ones used to make my kid miserable. He would agonize over them and endure so much stress, and for what? Even if fun for the majority of kids, why put the others through it when it is not even pedagogically pertinent?

Because regular English assignments make some kids miserable and we force them to work at it and engage in the struggle and do their best and learn and improve even when it’s hard. Those are good experiences for your child to have too. Not everything is easy, and these assignments are valuable precisely because they flip the script on which kids it’s hard for and which kids it’s easy for. Teach your kids there’s value in working hard at something that doesn’t come easily to them and stop complaining that teachers give assignments your kids aren’t naturally good at. Believe it or not, communicating through pictures is also an English class skill - political cartoons, propaganda, marketing, advertising. All different types of relevant English course skills and knowledge.

That’s all fine and good but some people literally cannot become artistic. We can all be taught the basics of grammar and punctuation and structure of writing and improve. But some of us could take 100 art classes and still not be able to draw beyond a stick figure.

You 100% can get better with instruction and practice. You won’t be gifted, but you can improve. Lots of kids go to school and spend all day doing tasks in which they will never be gifted and will never find them easy and will never end up with as good of a product as Larlo over there. It’s ok for your kid to also experience that feeling once in a while.

Also, no non-art teacher is going to dock your kid points because an image on a poster was traced rather than drawn free-hand. It may not be possible for your kid to get to “impressive” but they can get to “serviceable”. The problem OP is describing is a kid who is used to easily producing “impressive” work and can’t handle the fact that on this project they may work really hard and only get to “serviceable.”

No they were explicitly told they could not trace and I’m telling you that my kids have been graded down on the quality of their artistic work. I’m an amateur artist and I love art but my kids are different and they cannot do it. It’s bad enough they have to struggle through art classes where people mock their product and the teacher gives them sad face….i just don’t understand why the English teachers have to grind them down as well.