UVM projects 15% drop in freshman class, faces $12M deficit

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure the Democrats letting Burlington turn into a hell-hole had nothing to do with it.

Burlington is a retirement community for boomers and college kids. Its cold but for a cold city it is doing just fine. Also has a Catholic college in town.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Wall Street Journal wrote about this.
Prestige hunting, the top colleges are getting stronger and the weaker ones are getting weaker. UVM is in that gray middle area.

The Small Private Colleges Dying in a Winner-Take-All University Marketplace
Big-name campuses turn away students while hundreds of lesser-known schools struggle to fill seats


https://www.wsj.com/us-news/education/college-tuition-loans-budget-cuts-7d0ea05f

Gift article anyone? Would like to read this.

Often times MSN picks up the WSJ articles and publishes them without a paywall.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/careersandeducation/the-small-private-colleges-dying-in-a-winner-take-all-university-marketplace/ar-AA20spY1

[Anonymous]

America’s College Towns Go From Boom to Bust: Many state universities are losing more students every year, failing the local economies they once fostered https://www.wsj.com/us-news/education/college-towns-economy-macomb-illinois-aae84dcc?st=qYjC85&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure the Democrats letting Burlington turn into a hell-hole had nothing to do with it.

Burlington is a retirement community for boomers and college kids. Its cold but for a cold city it is doing just fine. Also has a Catholic college in town.

Vermont has one of the lowest birth rates in the country along with the rest of New England. That entire state is a retirement community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For context, the Boston Globe took early note of the challenges facing Vermont colleges in a 2019 article, "Higher education struggles are hitting Vermont hard."

Since that time, seven Vermont colleges have closed and Middlebury has run a string of annual budget deficits.

The demographic cliff is slamming small states like Vermont harder, plus schools like UMASS and UCONN are not only cheaper but more highly ranked. There just aren't many good reasons to pick UVM over those schools.

Wealthier liberal families were the first to stop having kids.

The areas like Vermont and other wealthy northeast areas where they are concentrated are going to see the impact of the demographic cliff first and fastest, compared to middle class, southern, midwest and southwest areas.

[Anonymous]

Too large a school for too small a state. The math is pretty simple. People paying OOS tuition largely don’t want to be in Vermont versus the similarly accessible (from an admissions perspective) flagships in the SEC and Big10. The trend is toward larger college towns with real sports teams and Vermont hasn’t adjusted by either reducing the overall size, hyper focusing on specific programs or finding a way to better compete. Their peer schools are obviously not Harvard but rather Penn Stats, Ohio State, South Carolina, Clemson and Alabama, all of which have become more popular and therefore more competitive.

[Anonymous]

They won't guarantee housing past the first year and Burlington has gotten really seedy and unsafe. They threw a lot of aid at my kid, extended deadlines, etc -no bite. Much easier to get in to than it has been..much less appealing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For context, the Boston Globe took early note of the challenges facing Vermont colleges in a 2019 article, "Higher education struggles are hitting Vermont hard."

Kids just don’t fall for the communist propaganda like they used to.

[Anonymous]

I'm in NE and it is desirable for a certain type of kid (incl mine). For those in HCOL states, the merit makes it "affordable" (I am being fairly generous with that term) but I can see it not being particularly desirable for kids from lower COL areas who aren't used to winter. With the demographic cliff in the NE, they will need to step up recruiting and I'm wondering how they will manage merit. Or maybe they will downsize to a right fit. Clark Univ had a similar drop.last year but they increased merit and had much better enrollment numbers this year.

Burlington does not seem any scarier or more dangerous than Cambridge MA, Boston, Worcester, or New Haven. I'm puzzled by all the comments about the town.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They won't guarantee housing past the first year and Burlington has gotten really seedy and unsafe. They threw a lot of aid at my kid, extended deadlines, etc -no bite. Much easier to get in to than it has been..much less appealing.

Housing is guaranteed (and required) for two years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They won't guarantee housing past the first year and Burlington has gotten really seedy and unsafe. They threw a lot of aid at my kid, extended deadlines, etc -no bite. Much easier to get in to than it has been..much less appealing.

My kid was accepted to Eastman Conservatory at Rochester. They received the max talent scholarship, then the university kept throwing more money at them to bring it below in state tuition.

The conservatory itself was amazing. But Rochester is a dump whose glory days ended in the early 1960s. Dirty, boarded up storefronts, open crime during the day a half block from campus.

No thanks.

Give us a safe, clean, beautiful SEC campus any day over a depressing, dirty, run down crime ridden depleted city in one of those blue areas that everyone is fleeing from.

It's a shame, because the conservatory is amazing. Just not amazing enough to balance out that it's in one of those formerly nice northeast small cities that no one, not even the liberals who created the mess, want to live in anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They won't guarantee housing past the first year and Burlington has gotten really seedy and unsafe. They threw a lot of aid at my kid, extended deadlines, etc -no bite. Much easier to get in to than it has been..much less appealing.

My kid was accepted to Eastman Conservatory at Rochester. They received the max talent scholarship, then the university kept throwing more money at them to bring it below in state tuition.

The conservatory itself was amazing. But Rochester is a dump whose glory days ended in the early 1960s. Dirty, boarded up storefronts, open crime during the day a half block from campus.

No thanks.

Give us a safe, clean, beautiful SEC campus any day over a depressing, dirty, run down crime ridden depleted city in one of those blue areas that everyone is fleeing from.

It's a shame, because the conservatory is amazing. Just not amazing enough to balance out that it's in one of those formerly nice northeast small cities that no one, not even the liberals who created the mess, want to live in anymore.

And you're sharing all of this in a thread about the University of Vermont... why, exactly?

It's interesting that enrollment is down at UVM because I've had multiple kids go through the college process (with somewhat similar interests) and only as my youngest has started to look at colleges has UVM really started to get popular at our DMV high school. My kid has toured and liked it very much; we know multiple (smart, friendly, engaged) students who've chosen to attend in the past few years and mine is seriously considering it. The COA would be less than larger flagships that are in less attractive locations with less interesting academic programs for my student's interest. Downtown Burlington is no seedier than parts of D.C. and its suburbs that we pass through regularly. And there's a lot about its setting to love.

Definitely still on our list, but I am interested to follow the news about the challenges it faces and appreciate the article posted by the OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They won't guarantee housing past the first year and Burlington has gotten really seedy and unsafe. They threw a lot of aid at my kid, extended deadlines, etc -no bite. Much easier to get in to than it has been..much less appealing.

My kid was accepted to Eastman Conservatory at Rochester. They received the max talent scholarship, then the university kept throwing more money at them to bring it below in state tuition.

The conservatory itself was amazing. But Rochester is a dump whose glory days ended in the early 1960s. Dirty, boarded up storefronts, open crime during the day a half block from campus.

No thanks.

Give us a safe, clean, beautiful SEC campus any day over a depressing, dirty, run down crime ridden depleted city in one of those blue areas that everyone is fleeing from.

It's a shame, because the conservatory is amazing. Just not amazing enough to balance out that it's in one of those formerly nice northeast small cities that no one, not even the liberals who created the mess, want to live in anymore.

And you're sharing all of this in a thread about the University of Vermont... why, exactly?

It's interesting that enrollment is down at UVM because I've had multiple kids go through the college process (with somewhat similar interests) and only as my youngest has started to look at colleges has UVM really started to get popular at our DMV high school. My kid has toured and liked it very much; we know multiple (smart, friendly, engaged) students who've chosen to attend in the past few years and mine is seriously considering it. The COA would be less than larger flagships that are in less attractive locations with less interesting academic programs for my student's interest. Downtown Burlington is no seedier than parts of D.C. and its suburbs that we pass through regularly. And there's a lot about its setting to love.

Definitely still on our list, but I am interested to follow the news about the challenges it faces and appreciate the article posted by the OP.

Yeah, I was responding to the poster I quoted who wrote this:

"... Burlington has gotten really seedy and unsafe. They threw a lot of aid at my kid, extended deadlines, etc -no bite. Much easier to get in to than it has been..much less appealing..."

Many of the less desirable schools are having the same issues for the same reason, and are throwing miney at kids trying to entice them to overlook the school location.

Those small liberal arts colleges in depressing dying crime ridden northeastern towns simply cannot compete with the booming, clean and safe SEC schools, midwest universities and southern universities, no matter how much money they pass out trying to entice kids to attend.

[Anonymous]

Burlington is fine. I go there for work reasons all the time. Yes there's some drug use and homelessness but it's no worse than any number of other cities. The in-state kids are a fun, caring, and practical bunch. The OOS kids are wealthier but tend to be outdoorsy and less pretentious than you'd get at other places. I would seriously hate to be in the SEC cultural milieu, it's so tacky, and I love to ski and row. I would be very happy living there as a student or right now, and no it isn't all old people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure the Democrats letting Burlington turn into a hell-hole had nothing to do with it.

Get over yourself, it's not that bad. All cities have crime.