Three Quarters Later - How is your 6th grader doing in Algebra 1 HN

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, how far beyond Calculus does your student need to be?

They will complete Calculus in 10th grade. You have set this up. And then what? And why? And why so young?

PP above you. For my kid, it's because she was perenially bored in class. Math is the one topic where kids can advance quickly. She can't skip an English class, or a Social Studies class. I think Honors Pre-calc is the year she stopped reading in math class, because otherwise she couldn't quite follow the teacher. This year, she still reads in every other class, even APUSH. Also, she rather likes math. She will do multivariable in 11th and whatever extra math is available in 12th. The point isn't advancement per se. It's making my daughter feel like school can be interesting.

Why can’t kids accelerate in other content areas? Who is stopping parents? Why is it just math? Why can’t kids take HS History classes early? Why not Biology or Environmental Science? Why can’t a 6th grader take English 9? Inquiring minds want to know.

Math is just easier to measure and plug into a system. You don’t really need age-based maturity for it. if kid is ready intellectually, they’re ready. Other subjects are different, they rely a lot more on maturity, discussion, and real-world context.
It’s pretty reasonable to teach trig to a 7th grader, but not so much the heavy stuff you get in English literature, like complex relationships, or social studies topics like war, ethics, and social justice.

Really???? In my experience, most students who hyper accelerate in math tend to be great at memorizing rules and procedures, BUT when asked the question of why something works or is true, they lack the ability to do so. This part of mathematics is important, not just memorizing. Like other people who have posted before, students need to time to develop their ability to articulate the process at arriving at their answer as well as learning the mathematical content.

It's important to differentiate high level understanding of math from ability to *communicate* that understanding. It's advanced math class, not advanced English class! And many hyper-advanced math students have social / communication / language disabilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, how far beyond Calculus does your student need to be?

They will complete Calculus in 10th grade. You have set this up. And then what? And why? And why so young?

PP above you. For my kid, it's because she was perenially bored in class. Math is the one topic where kids can advance quickly. She can't skip an English class, or a Social Studies class. I think Honors Pre-calc is the year she stopped reading in math class, because otherwise she couldn't quite follow the teacher. This year, she still reads in every other class, even APUSH. Also, she rather likes math. She will do multivariable in 11th and whatever extra math is available in 12th. The point isn't advancement per se. It's making my daughter feel like school can be interesting.

Why can’t kids accelerate in other content areas? Who is stopping parents? Why is it just math? Why can’t kids take HS History classes early? Why not Biology or Environmental Science? Why can’t a 6th grader take English 9? Inquiring minds want to know.

1. One argument is that it's unnecessary. Kids can more deeply engage with the material in their grade level class, do better projects, write stronger essays, etc. I'm not sure that this is true in practice, but a lot of teachers would argue that they could challenge advanced kids adequately with some in-class differentiation. In math, whether the kid already knows the content is pretty cut and dried.
2. The subject matter covered in advanced English and History classes may be age inappropriate for younger kids.

I don't see any reason why parents couldn't or shouldn't lobby schools for accelerated English and History content. In the past, kids who were advanced were skipped ahead multiple grade levels in school. The schools have not figured out how to adequately handle kids who are no longer being grade level skipped, but still need deeper instruction.

AAP teacher here. I have kids who have scored on 9th grade level but their writing was on grade level or below and that is where my focus was with them. While I have many kids who are strong readers and writers they can always improve. Very few of my 6th graders get 4s all year in LA. With Benchmark, a lot of the readings are challenging.

For SS, it is very easy for me to add depth and complexity to the SS curriculum but it is important they get basic background knowledge before high school.

Another AAP teacher here who has taught at ES, MS, HS. I’d give more detail, but don’t want to totally out myself.

I agree with the AAP teacher above — teaching truly gifted kids means going deeper, not faster. In FCPS’ race to shove kids into AAP (what they count as the state mandated gifted program) and into math acceleration, they have lost the focus on depth. The AAP extended standards were supposed to create that depth in science, social studies, and LA. That depth generally happens in the AAP MS courses (not honors, which is now just regular with very little depth), but it does not really happen in many of the ES AAP Language Arts classes and the science and social studies blocks aren’t long enough to provide depth.

Accelerating students through placing them in HS courses early doesn’t give them the challenging thought activities and conversations that a gifted kid’s brain needs to reach its full potential. Gifted kids need to make thematic connections, dig into areas of interest with deep research, and have conversations about complex issues. This is why TJ science courses teach beyond the AP material and why the math courses go far beyond the FCPS standards and AP standards. Parents need to push FCPS to bring back depth, not push for acceleration to nowhere. They also need to push for teachers who have the AAP state endorsement— not allowing teachers to get the FCPS endorsement within 3 years of teaching AAP and calling it a day.

What FCPS really needs to do is get rid of the watered down AAP program and bring back a truly gifted & talented program. Then we can go back to having three separate tracks. Gifted, regular, remedial. We are doing a great disservice to both regular and remedial children by lumping them together. The vast majority of kids in FCPS are just regular. Maybe 2% are gifted. Let's give them what they need, give regular students what they need, give remedial students what they need. The focus on AAP is discriminatory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, how far beyond Calculus does your student need to be?

They will complete Calculus in 10th grade. You have set this up. And then what? And why? And why so young?

PP above you. For my kid, it's because she was perenially bored in class. Math is the one topic where kids can advance quickly. She can't skip an English class, or a Social Studies class. I think Honors Pre-calc is the year she stopped reading in math class, because otherwise she couldn't quite follow the teacher. This year, she still reads in every other class, even APUSH. Also, she rather likes math. She will do multivariable in 11th and whatever extra math is available in 12th. The point isn't advancement per se. It's making my daughter feel like school can be interesting.

Why can’t kids accelerate in other content areas? Who is stopping parents? Why is it just math? Why can’t kids take HS History classes early? Why not Biology or Environmental Science? Why can’t a 6th grader take English 9? Inquiring minds want to know.

Math is just easier to measure and plug into a system. You don’t really need age-based maturity for it. if kid is ready intellectually, they’re ready. Other subjects are different, they rely a lot more on maturity, discussion, and real-world context.
It’s pretty reasonable to teach trig to a 7th grader, but not so much the heavy stuff you get in English literature, like complex relationships, or social studies topics like war, ethics, and social justice.

Really???? In my experience, most students who hyper accelerate in math tend to be great at memorizing rules and procedures, BUT when asked the question of why something works or is true, they lack the ability to do so. This part of mathematics is important, not just memorizing. Like other people who have posted before, students need to time to develop their ability to articulate the process at arriving at their answer as well as learning the mathematical content.

That's opposite to my experience. IME, most students of any level tend to be great at applying algorithms and getting correct answers without really understanding what they're doing. The moment you're looking at kids who aren't especially accelerated or are on the regular and not honors track, that's nearly 100% of the class. They fall apart the moment they're given problems that aren't very similar to what they've seen demonstrated in class. Kids with exceptional natural math aptitude tend to understand why things work and excel at any problems given to them. Kids with exceptional natural math aptitude are also the ones most likely to be hyper accelerated.

I guess I would agree with you that kids who are hyper accelerated due to parental pushiness rather than math aptitude conform to what you've experienced. Those kids weren't likely to understand the nuts and bolts any better if they had waited a year. They'd still mostly be algorithm followers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, how far beyond Calculus does your student need to be?

They will complete Calculus in 10th grade. You have set this up. And then what? And why? And why so young?

PP above you. For my kid, it's because she was perenially bored in class. Math is the one topic where kids can advance quickly. She can't skip an English class, or a Social Studies class. I think Honors Pre-calc is the year she stopped reading in math class, because otherwise she couldn't quite follow the teacher. This year, she still reads in every other class, even APUSH. Also, she rather likes math. She will do multivariable in 11th and whatever extra math is available in 12th. The point isn't advancement per se. It's making my daughter feel like school can be interesting.

Why can’t kids accelerate in other content areas? Who is stopping parents? Why is it just math? Why can’t kids take HS History classes early? Why not Biology or Environmental Science? Why can’t a 6th grader take English 9? Inquiring minds want to know.

Math is just easier to measure and plug into a system. You don’t really need age-based maturity for it. if kid is ready intellectually, they’re ready. Other subjects are different, they rely a lot more on maturity, discussion, and real-world context.
It’s pretty reasonable to teach trig to a 7th grader, but not so much the heavy stuff you get in English literature, like complex relationships, or social studies topics like war, ethics, and social justice.

Really???? In my experience, most students who hyper accelerate in math tend to be great at memorizing rules and procedures, BUT when asked the question of why something works or is true, they lack the ability to do so. This part of mathematics is important, not just memorizing. Like other people who have posted before, students need to time to develop their ability to articulate the process at arriving at their answer as well as learning the mathematical content.

This is why we have loved the math competition classes and competitions themselves for my son. The teacher asks kids to explain their answers. kids have different methods of solving the same problem, some are more efficient than others. By discussing the different options, the kids have to be able to communicate why they did what they did. By listening to others, they learn different approaches. Sometimes they get the wrong answer and they learn that they have more to learn and to not get discouraged. There are tricks and tips you can memorize but you have to understand the material to be able to know when you use them and then apply them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, how far beyond Calculus does your student need to be?

They will complete Calculus in 10th grade. You have set this up. And then what? And why? And why so young?

PP above you. For my kid, it's because she was perenially bored in class. Math is the one topic where kids can advance quickly. She can't skip an English class, or a Social Studies class. I think Honors Pre-calc is the year she stopped reading in math class, because otherwise she couldn't quite follow the teacher. This year, she still reads in every other class, even APUSH. Also, she rather likes math. She will do multivariable in 11th and whatever extra math is available in 12th. The point isn't advancement per se. It's making my daughter feel like school can be interesting.

Why can’t kids accelerate in other content areas? Who is stopping parents? Why is it just math? Why can’t kids take HS History classes early? Why not Biology or Environmental Science? Why can’t a 6th grader take English 9? Inquiring minds want to know.

Math is just easier to measure and plug into a system. You don’t really need age-based maturity for it. if kid is ready intellectually, they’re ready. Other subjects are different, they rely a lot more on maturity, discussion, and real-world context.
It’s pretty reasonable to teach trig to a 7th grader, but not so much the heavy stuff you get in English literature, like complex relationships, or social studies topics like war, ethics, and social justice.

Really???? In my experience, most students who hyper accelerate in math tend to be great at memorizing rules and procedures, BUT when asked the question of why something works or is true, they lack the ability to do so. This part of mathematics is important, not just memorizing. Like other people who have posted before, students need to time to develop their ability to articulate the process at arriving at their answer as well as learning the mathematical content.

Math is math. You either get it or you don’t. Some 6th graders pick up algebra concepts pretty easily, while plenty of 10th graders still struggle with the same basic concepts, even after going over them multiple times. FCPS is just trying to handle those different learning needs in a practical way, which most teachers support. There’s no reason to hold back 6th graders who are ready for algebra, and at the same time, other students can take the time they need to learn the same algebra at their own pace. Many graduate 12th with just Algebra, and that's ok.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, how far beyond Calculus does your student need to be?

They will complete Calculus in 10th grade. You have set this up. And then what? And why? And why so young?

PP above you. For my kid, it's because she was perenially bored in class. Math is the one topic where kids can advance quickly. She can't skip an English class, or a Social Studies class. I think Honors Pre-calc is the year she stopped reading in math class, because otherwise she couldn't quite follow the teacher. This year, she still reads in every other class, even APUSH. Also, she rather likes math. She will do multivariable in 11th and whatever extra math is available in 12th. The point isn't advancement per se. It's making my daughter feel like school can be interesting.

Why can’t kids accelerate in other content areas? Who is stopping parents? Why is it just math? Why can’t kids take HS History classes early? Why not Biology or Environmental Science? Why can’t a 6th grader take English 9? Inquiring minds want to know.

1. One argument is that it's unnecessary. Kids can more deeply engage with the material in their grade level class, do better projects, write stronger essays, etc. I'm not sure that this is true in practice, but a lot of teachers would argue that they could challenge advanced kids adequately with some in-class differentiation. In math, whether the kid already knows the content is pretty cut and dried.
2. The subject matter covered in advanced English and History classes may be age inappropriate for younger kids.

I don't see any reason why parents couldn't or shouldn't lobby schools for accelerated English and History content. In the past, kids who were advanced were skipped ahead multiple grade levels in school. The schools have not figured out how to adequately handle kids who are no longer being grade level skipped, but still need deeper instruction.

AAP teacher here. I have kids who have scored on 9th grade level but their writing was on grade level or below and that is where my focus was with them. While I have many kids who are strong readers and writers they can always improve. Very few of my 6th graders get 4s all year in LA. With Benchmark, a lot of the readings are challenging.

For SS, it is very easy for me to add depth and complexity to the SS curriculum but it is important they get basic background knowledge before high school.

Another AAP teacher here who has taught at ES, MS, HS. I’d give more detail, but don’t want to totally out myself.

I agree with the AAP teacher above — teaching truly gifted kids means going deeper, not faster. In FCPS’ race to shove kids into AAP (what they count as the state mandated gifted program) and into math acceleration, they have lost the focus on depth. The AAP extended standards were supposed to create that depth in science, social studies, and LA. That depth generally happens in the AAP MS courses (not honors, which is now just regular with very little depth), but it does not really happen in many of the ES AAP Language Arts classes and the science and social studies blocks aren’t long enough to provide depth.

Accelerating students through placing them in HS courses early doesn’t give them the challenging thought activities and conversations that a gifted kid’s brain needs to reach its full potential. Gifted kids need to make thematic connections, dig into areas of interest with deep research, and have conversations about complex issues. This is why TJ science courses teach beyond the AP material and why the math courses go far beyond the FCPS standards and AP standards. Parents need to push FCPS to bring back depth, not push for acceleration to nowhere. They also need to push for teachers who have the AAP state endorsement— not allowing teachers to get the FCPS endorsement within 3 years of teaching AAP and calling it a day.

I agree that depth would be much better than acceleration. A lot of parents accept that FCPS just isn't going to provide real depth, so they outsource to AoPS or RSM and then push for the acceleration so their kid is wasting less time in school. IME, any math class will teach to the lower end of the middle of the class. Even in AAP, there are enough kids who aren't especially strong in math and cause the entire class to be mildly accelerated and mildly deeper than the regular class. The only way to offer truly deeper classes would be to severely restrict enrollment. Parents accept that FCPS is just not going to do that.

[Anonymous]

Can someone please answer the question? How are your kids doing in 6th grade algebra? I am a 5th grade parent who would like to know this as my child may be offered Algebra next year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please answer the question? How are your kids doing in 6th grade algebra? I am a 5th grade parent who would like to know this as my child may be offered Algebra next year.

Instead of being worried about keeping up with the “Jones’s”, think about the track of mathematics this hyper acceleration is putting your child on - 10th grade Calculus and then 2 years beyond that for 11th and 12th grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please answer the question? How are your kids doing in 6th grade algebra? I am a 5th grade parent who would like to know this as my child may be offered Algebra next year.

Talk to your child’s counselor. If 5th grade math already feels challenging enough, it’s totally fine to stick with the AAP or general ed path. There are hundreds of 6th graders who are ready for algebra and doing just fine with it now, and plenty more will be next year. No need to stress about what works for other talented kids. Just focus on what fits your child’s learning pace and ability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please answer the question? How are your kids doing in 6th grade algebra? I am a 5th grade parent who would like to know this as my child may be offered Algebra next year.

Honestly, it doesn't matter how it is going for other kids. You know your kid and what your kid needs. We didn’t have the choice in 6th but did in 7th. For us, ti was a no brainer to put DS into Algebra. He had been bored in math all through school and we knew Algebra wasn’t going to be an issue for him. He is a math competition kid who finished in the 99th percentile in every competition he did.

He had friends choose Math 7H who could have been in Algebra but did not enjoy math and their parents realized that. Calculus aas a senior is perfectly fine for kids applying to the top schools in the country. The kid didn’t want to do Algebra, even though they were able to do it, and the parents agreed that there was no hurry. The kids did fine in Math 7H and are doing fien in Algebra as 8th graders.

He had friends chose Algebra in 7th who got Bs. The parents are fine with the Bs, but the kids were stressed about the class. The kids attitude was that if it was offered they should take it, a few didn’t want to not take a class that their friends were taking. They were not mathy kids, kids who loved math and felt bored in Advanced Math at school. They are getting Bs in geometry as 8th graders. The kids and parents seem fine with it. We’ll see how Algebra 2 goes next year.

A B is a good grade but I am not sure it is as good a grade when you are accelerating in a subject. From my lens, the kids who got Bs were stressed and are not thrilled with the grade that they got. I don’t think any of them wanted to expunge and retake. They are challenged in math. They seem to be ok with the path they are on.

You know your kid. Is your kid bored and wants to be challenged? Are they a kid who loves math and wants to be challenged? Do they pick up on concepts quickly? Not just for Algebra in 6th grade but for what ever dual enrollment classes they will need to take their Senior year. If yes, then think about A1H as a 6th grader, we would have placed our kid in A1H as a 6th grader. If no, stick with the accelerated track and don’t hyper accelerate.

[Anonymous]

Agree with the 2 PPs. Your child will fit one of these profiles:
A. Consistently scores in the 99th percentile in quantitative tests. Is bored out of their mind in AAP math. Loves math and wants to do more.

B. Similar to B in aptitude, but doesn't really love math.

C. Is only scoring in the 99th percentile due to outside enrichment and prep classes. Is only not challenged in AAP math because they've already learned the material in outside classes.

D. Is not as strong in math standardized tests. Is comfortable and adequately challenged in their AAP math class.

If your child fits A, they'll likely thrive in 6th grade Algebra and onward. If your child fits D, they're unlikely to be offered 6th grade Algebra.

The tricky part is when your child fits B or C.
If your child fits B, they'll be fine with 6th grade Algebra, but will not be thrilled with having to take several years of post-AP calc classes. You should discuss the requirements with your kid before accelerating them too much.

For C, some kids will do fine and enjoy the challenge. Others will get overwhelmed and struggle. You need to know your own kid and be ready and willing to drop back if the kid is struggling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agree with the 2 PPs. Your child will fit one of these profiles:
A. Consistently scores in the 99th percentile in quantitative tests. Is bored out of their mind in AAP math. Loves math and wants to do more.

B. Similar to B in aptitude, but doesn't really love math.

C. Is only scoring in the 99th percentile due to outside enrichment and prep classes. Is only not challenged in AAP math because they've already learned the material in outside classes.

D. Is not as strong in math standardized tests. Is comfortable and adequately challenged in their AAP math class.

If your child fits A, they'll likely thrive in 6th grade Algebra and onward. If your child fits D, they're unlikely to be offered 6th grade Algebra.

The tricky part is when your child fits B or C.
If your child fits B, they'll be fine with 6th grade Algebra, but will not be thrilled with having to take several years of post-AP calc classes. You should discuss the requirements with your kid before accelerating them too much.

For C, some kids will do fine and enjoy the challenge. Others will get overwhelmed and struggle. You need to know your own kid and be ready and willing to drop back if the kid is struggling.

A B kid will have to take the same number of math classes whether they accelerate or not. It's not a reason to limit them to algebra 1 in 8th or 7th

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please answer the question? How are your kids doing in 6th grade algebra? I am a 5th grade parent who would like to know this as my child may be offered Algebra next year.

Talk to your child’s counselor. If 5th grade math already feels challenging enough, it’s totally fine to stick with the AAP or general ed path. There are hundreds of 6th graders who are ready for algebra and doing just fine with it now, and plenty more will be next year. No need to stress about what works for other talented kids. Just focus on what fits your child’s learning pace and ability.

I don't know why people keep answering this way. I said absolutely nothing about what other kids are doing. I'm not OP. I'm just a 5th grade parent who is curious about the implementation of Algebra I for 6th graders this year - my child may be eligible, so I'm wondering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone please answer the question? How are your kids doing in 6th grade algebra? I am a 5th grade parent who would like to know this as my child may be offered Algebra next year.

Talk to your child’s counselor. If 5th grade math already feels challenging enough, it’s totally fine to stick with the AAP or general ed path. There are hundreds of 6th graders who are ready for algebra and doing just fine with it now, and plenty more will be next year. No need to stress about what works for other talented kids. Just focus on what fits your child’s learning pace and ability.

I don't know why people keep answering this way. I said absolutely nothing about what other kids are doing. I'm not OP. I no 'm just a 5th grade parent who is curious about the implementation of Algebra I for 6th graders this year - my child may be eligible, so I'm wondering.

You should ask the Superintendent directly since this is her decision and the content experts in the county are being ignored and not listened to regarding this harmful practice.

[Anonymous]

Current 6 grade parents with algebra 1 here

It’s like any other classes. Some kids are doing fine and others are not. Some struggled kids dropped after 1Q. Other struggling kids who will be like get C or D are still in the class.