do private high schools manage who applies where

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve heard that at some private schools, parents of lower-GPA students push counselors to control who applies where, so stronger students are somehow blocked(?) from applying to the same colleges.

But how does that make sense for the top students? They usually benefit from applying broadly and seeing which schools offer the best merit aid.

You’ll probably get better responses in the private school forum, but I’ll give you my 2 cents as a private school parent. On the advice of parents of older students who cautioned me that the CCO’s motivations wouldn’t necessarily align with DC’s, I hired an independent college counselor whose motivations did. Worked out great, but of course I can’t speak to the road not taken.

hiring an outside college counselor who protects DC interests makes sense. School counselor cant be trusted. impossible to know which student interests they represent.

Interesting. My DD is a senior at a top private in DMV area. We also hired a private counselor. They both serve very different roles.

Private counselor did a great job of helping DD shape her narrative, work on essays, organize a timeline and hit the deadlines, and kept the whole process very stress free. School counselor, who has the relationships with the AOs, is there to help guide DD and understands the nuances of the specific schools she applied to.

For example, DD wanted to apply to some very high reaches in RD even if she got into her clear first choice REA. Because CC was advocating strongly for DD in the REA school, she strongly recommended DD not apply to those reaches if she was admitted, because if she isn't going to enroll, it wouldn't be fair to her classmates who want to enroll. DD eventually got deferred and did end up applying to the reach schools and it wasn't an issue at all. CC is still strongly advocating for DD in her first choice school. Private counselor has no role in this whole scenario...she has pretty much bowed out until decisions come in, which makes 100% perfect sense.

Do you think the advocating is helping or hurting her application, since she was deferred in the early round? Can you come back and share her results in a few weeks?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve heard that at some private schools, parents of lower-GPA students push counselors to control who applies where, so stronger students are somehow blocked(?) from applying to the same colleges.

But how does that make sense for the top students? They usually benefit from applying broadly and seeing which schools offer the best merit aid.

You’ll probably get better responses in the private school forum, but I’ll give you my 2 cents as a private school parent. On the advice of parents of older students who cautioned me that the CCO’s motivations wouldn’t necessarily align with DC’s, I hired an independent college counselor whose motivations did. Worked out great, but of course I can’t speak to the road not taken.

hiring an outside college counselor who protects DC interests makes sense. School counselor cant be trusted. impossible to know which student interests they represent.

Interesting. My DD is a senior at a top private in DMV area. We also hired a private counselor. They both serve very different roles.

Private counselor did a great job of helping DD shape her narrative, work on essays, organize a timeline and hit the deadlines, and kept the whole process very stress free. School counselor, who has the relationships with the AOs, is there to help guide DD and understands the nuances of the specific schools she applied to.

For example, DD wanted to apply to some very high reaches in RD even if she got into her clear first choice REA. Because CC was advocating strongly for DD in the REA school, she strongly recommended DD not apply to those reaches if she was admitted, because if she isn't going to enroll, it wouldn't be fair to her classmates who want to enroll. DD eventually got deferred and did end up applying to the reach schools and it wasn't an issue at all. CC is still strongly advocating for DD in her first choice school. Private counselor has no role in this whole scenario...she has pretty much bowed out until decisions come in, which makes 100% perfect sense.

Do you think the advocating is helping or hurting her application, since she was deferred in the early round? Can you come back and share her results in a few weeks?

Different poster but this is a good question. My kid was deferred to a top20 ED last year and the private high school was not pleased because my child "should" have been admitted (for a number of reasons that I won't get into). Completely unbeknownst to us the high school did some super heavy advocating and I honestly think ended up ticking off the regional admissions person. My kid was not admitted and neither was anyone so far this year. Sometimes "advocating" is not a good thing.

[Anonymous]

Incompetent counselor "advocating"? that only makes things worse. Agree not all "advocating" is a good thing. For this to work, it takes years establishing trust between the school counselor and AOs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve heard that at some private schools, parents of lower-GPA students push counselors to control who applies where, so stronger students are somehow blocked(?) from applying to the same colleges.

But how does that make sense for the top students? They usually benefit from applying broadly and seeing which schools offer the best merit aid.

You’ll probably get better responses in the private school forum, but I’ll give you my 2 cents as a private school parent. On the advice of parents of older students who cautioned me that the CCO’s motivations wouldn’t necessarily align with DC’s, I hired an independent college counselor whose motivations did. Worked out great, but of course I can’t speak to the road not taken.

hiring an outside college counselor who protects DC interests makes sense. School counselor cant be trusted. impossible to know which student interests they represent.

Interesting. My DD is a senior at a top private in DMV area. We also hired a private counselor. They both serve very different roles.

Private counselor did a great job of helping DD shape her narrative, work on essays, organize a timeline and hit the deadlines, and kept the whole process very stress free. School counselor, who has the relationships with the AOs, is there to help guide DD and understands the nuances of the specific schools she applied to.

For example, DD wanted to apply to some very high reaches in RD even if she got into her clear first choice REA. Because CC was advocating strongly for DD in the REA school, she strongly recommended DD not apply to those reaches if she was admitted, because if she isn't going to enroll, it wouldn't be fair to her classmates who want to enroll. DD eventually got deferred and did end up applying to the reach schools and it wasn't an issue at all. CC is still strongly advocating for DD in her first choice school. Private counselor has no role in this whole scenario...she has pretty much bowed out until decisions come in, which makes 100% perfect sense.

Do you think the advocating is helping or hurting her application, since she was deferred in the early round? Can you come back and share her results in a few weeks?

Different poster but this is a good question. My kid was deferred to a top20 ED last year and the private high school was not pleased because my child "should" have been admitted (for a number of reasons that I won't get into). Completely unbeknownst to us the high school did some super heavy advocating and I honestly think ended up ticking off the regional admissions person. My kid was not admitted and neither was anyone so far this year. Sometimes "advocating" is not a good thing.

How did you find out about the heavy advocating?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Incompetent counselor "advocating"? that only makes things worse. Agree not all "advocating" is a good thing. For this to work, it takes years establishing trust between the school counselor and AOs.

Previous poster again. The person and school advocating are both super experienced with this game. But things can still go wrong. No one likes being told how to do their job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve heard that at some private schools, parents of lower-GPA students push counselors to control who applies where, so stronger students are somehow blocked(?) from applying to the same colleges.

But how does that make sense for the top students? They usually benefit from applying broadly and seeing which schools offer the best merit aid.

You’ll probably get better responses in the private school forum, but I’ll give you my 2 cents as a private school parent. On the advice of parents of older students who cautioned me that the CCO’s motivations wouldn’t necessarily align with DC’s, I hired an independent college counselor whose motivations did. Worked out great, but of course I can’t speak to the road not taken.

hiring an outside college counselor who protects DC interests makes sense. School counselor cant be trusted. impossible to know which student interests they represent.

Interesting. My DD is a senior at a top private in DMV area. We also hired a private counselor. They both serve very different roles.

Private counselor did a great job of helping DD shape her narrative, work on essays, organize a timeline and hit the deadlines, and kept the whole process very stress free. School counselor, who has the relationships with the AOs, is there to help guide DD and understands the nuances of the specific schools she applied to.

For example, DD wanted to apply to some very high reaches in RD even if she got into her clear first choice REA. Because CC was advocating strongly for DD in the REA school, she strongly recommended DD not apply to those reaches if she was admitted, because if she isn't going to enroll, it wouldn't be fair to her classmates who want to enroll. DD eventually got deferred and did end up applying to the reach schools and it wasn't an issue at all. CC is still strongly advocating for DD in her first choice school. Private counselor has no role in this whole scenario...she has pretty much bowed out until decisions come in, which makes 100% perfect sense.

Do you think the advocating is helping or hurting her application, since she was deferred in the early round? Can you come back and share her results in a few weeks?

Different poster but this is a good question. My kid was deferred to a top20 ED last year and the private high school was not pleased because my child "should" have been admitted (for a number of reasons that I won't get into). Completely unbeknownst to us the high school did some super heavy advocating and I honestly think ended up ticking off the regional admissions person. My kid was not admitted and neither was anyone so far this year. Sometimes "advocating" is not a good thing.

How did you find out about the heavy advocating?

College counselor told us. HOS had even gotten involved with the college. We had no idea it was going on. We would have preferred nothing had been said and I honestly think the outcome would have been better. Kid got into a bunch of other top20's RD including 2 Ivies but really wanted this first school (a non Ivy) and I think the process was bungled.

I truly think it's better to just things play out.

[Anonymous]

I agree with this. It’s best to let things play out.

It’s also why some of these letters from board members can also backfire. Unless the board member has true clout it just clutters the file and it annoys the admissions team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with this. It’s best to let things play out.

It’s also why some of these letters from board members can also backfire. Unless the board member has true clout it just clutters the file and it annoys the admissions team.

YES! I saw this last year too in at least two cases. Board letters that went no where and otherwise qualified kids put in the circular file. Again, no one likes to be told how to do their job. Admissions officers get a letter from "Mr. important board member" and human nature says: "Screw them.They're not the one here in the trenches. I'll pick who I want to pick."

[Anonymous]

You wouldn't want to go to any college with admissions staff that compromises the process. I was cynical before but having gone through it with DC1 I lean towards the process works (for the most part, institutional priorities and all).

[Anonymous]

Is that guiding partly because they have a broader view of the class as a whole so they can be realistic with each student? Is there a way to say that the student is welcome to apply but within the HS there are a lot of kids applying to the same place and based on this student’s profile they may want to reconsider?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is that guiding partly because they have a broader view of the class as a whole so they can be realistic with each student? Is there a way to say that the student is welcome to apply but within the HS there are a lot of kids applying to the same place and based on this student’s profile they may want to reconsider?

Exactly. It's actually not a big conspiracy to only support the wealthiest kids. I've had 3 kids go through this at a top private.
College guidance knows the whole picture and knows that if your unhooked kid is applying at the same time as 2 legacy kids with strong grades then your kid's chance of admission is very slim. They don't want to see your kid waste their ED and then be disgruntled later on when they only have safety options. I have seen this happen time and time again. Kids waste their ED on a moon shot and then fall way down. But parents at these schools don't like this. Frankly they are used to being to get their way in life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is that guiding partly because they have a broader view of the class as a whole so they can be realistic with each student? Is there a way to say that the student is welcome to apply but within the HS there are a lot of kids applying to the same place and based on this student’s profile they may want to reconsider?

Exactly. It's actually not a big conspiracy to only support the wealthiest kids. I've had 3 kids go through this at a top private.
College guidance knows the whole picture and knows that if your unhooked kid is applying at the same time as 2 legacy kids with strong grades then your kid's chance of admission is very slim. They don't want to see your kid waste their ED and then be disgruntled later on when they only have safety options. I have seen this happen time and time again. Kids waste their ED on a moon shot and then fall way down. But parents at these schools don't like this. Frankly they are used to being to get their way in life.

Doesn't it go both ways? The non-legacy kid could also take their shot and it would be nice if they felt just as supported by the school. At our school, both legacies and non-legacies get into the top schools - it really depends on the kid (unless fo course you are super VIP or high donor, etc, but even those cases are not a sure bet)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is that guiding partly because they have a broader view of the class as a whole so they can be realistic with each student? Is there a way to say that the student is welcome to apply but within the HS there are a lot of kids applying to the same place and based on this student’s profile they may want to reconsider?

Exactly. It's actually not a big conspiracy to only support the wealthiest kids. I've had 3 kids go through this at a top private.
College guidance knows the whole picture and knows that if your unhooked kid is applying at the same time as 2 legacy kids with strong grades then your kid's chance of admission is very slim. They don't want to see your kid waste their ED and then be disgruntled later on when they only have safety options. I have seen this happen time and time again. Kids waste their ED on a moon shot and then fall way down. But parents at these schools don't like this. Frankly they are used to being to get their way in life.

Doesn't it go both ways? The non-legacy kid could also take their shot and it would be nice if they felt just as supported by the school. At our school, both legacies and non-legacies get into the top schools - it really depends on the kid (unless fo course you are super VIP or high donor, etc, but even those cases are not a sure bet)

They are always welcome to take their shot. College counseling never prevents anyone from applying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is that guiding partly because they have a broader view of the class as a whole so they can be realistic with each student? Is there a way to say that the student is welcome to apply but within the HS there are a lot of kids applying to the same place and based on this student’s profile they may want to reconsider?

Exactly. It's actually not a big conspiracy to only support the wealthiest kids. I've had 3 kids go through this at a top private.
College guidance knows the whole picture and knows that if your unhooked kid is applying at the same time as 2 legacy kids with strong grades then your kid's chance of admission is very slim. They don't want to see your kid waste their ED and then be disgruntled later on when they only have safety options. I have seen this happen time and time again. Kids waste their ED on a moon shot and then fall way down. But parents at these schools don't like this. Frankly they are used to being to get their way in life.

I don’t think legacy gives much boost nowadays. They got rejected or deferred all the time. Donors? Yes. School counselor should not give preferential support to legacy.

[Anonymous]

This happens a lot at top privates. You have to be willing to flex your ED.
It happened last year at our school with Princeton.
Class size 70.
Candidates:
-3rd generation legacy, top grades, class president, recruited athlete
-recruited athlete
-recruited musician (yes, there is such a thing)
-legacy x 2 parents, minority

Now a white, top student is going to have a very, very, very hard time jumping the Princeton line. And unlikely that Princeton is going to admit 5 kids from a class of 70. They were directed to Yale, etc.

This year it is Yale.
You have:
-Class president, top academic student
-Legacy x 2 parents
-athletic recruit
-sibling x 2,
-faculty kid.

Yale is pretty much off the table for a generic smart kid. And only 2 of these 5 were admitted SCEA so far. The rest will likely follow.