What happened at the NVSL Seeding meeting?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Proposal One - withdrawn prior to the meeting, no vote

Proposal Two (pass) -changing the calculation of yards to meters
Yes -- 100
No -- 0
Abstain -- 2

Proposal Three (pass) -bid in for divisional exchange
Yes -- 102
No -- 0
Abstain -- 0

Proposal Four (pass) at least one team rep on the cover sheet
Yes -- 100
No -- 2
Abstain -- 0

Proposal Five (pass) - alternates/divisionals - not having them
Yes -- 77
No -- 20
Abstain -- 5

The fact that there were NO votes on this is hilarious. WHY?

Given the results, I take it the "alternates for divisionals" proposal prompted the most spirited discussion ... which would also be hilarious!

It sounded like a team had an "alternate" right there when the false start happened and were mistaken the kids could get in. A lot of coaches think the concept of alternates is an honor, etc. Waiting in the wings. But in reality, asked the kids who are in that position. They loathe it. It is awful. You want some kid to not show up or get sick so you can swim? No decent kid really wants that, so you feel dirty about it. They parade you up, you wait, and then they parade you out. There is that one story from IAS that they all hang their hat on that is the stuff of legend - an alternate gets in and wins it all - wow, how awesome. But mostly, it just makes the kids feel terrible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Proposal One - withdrawn prior to the meeting, no vote

Proposal Two (pass) -changing the calculation of yards to meters
Yes -- 100
No -- 0
Abstain -- 2

Proposal Three (pass) -bid in for divisional exchange
Yes -- 102
No -- 0
Abstain -- 0

Proposal Four (pass) at least one team rep on the cover sheet
Yes -- 100
No -- 2
Abstain -- 0

Proposal Five (pass) - alternates/divisionals - not having them
Yes -- 77
No -- 20
Abstain -- 5

The fact that there were NO votes on this is hilarious. WHY?

Given the results, I take it the "alternates for divisionals" proposal prompted the most spirited discussion ... which would also be hilarious!

It sounded like a team had an "alternate" right there when the false start happened and were mistaken the kids could get in. A lot of coaches think the concept of alternates is an honor, etc. Waiting in the wings. But in reality, asked the kids who are in that position. They loathe it. It is awful. You want some kid to not show up or get sick so you can swim? No decent kid really wants that, so you feel dirty about it. They parade you up, you wait, and then they parade you out. There is that one story from IAS that they all hang their hat on that is the stuff of legend - an alternate gets in and wins it all - wow, how awesome. But mostly, it just makes the kids feel terrible.

Kids have a choice if they want to be considered as an alternate. They can scratch and remove themselves from the situation if they don’t like it. Some kids are thrilled to be there, and I hope they don’t take that opportunity away from alternates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Proposal One - withdrawn prior to the meeting, no vote

Proposal Two (pass) -changing the calculation of yards to meters
Yes -- 100
No -- 0
Abstain -- 2

Proposal Three (pass) -bid in for divisional exchange
Yes -- 102
No -- 0
Abstain -- 0

Proposal Four (pass) at least one team rep on the cover sheet
Yes -- 100
No -- 2
Abstain -- 0

Proposal Five (pass) - alternates/divisionals - not having them
Yes -- 77
No -- 20
Abstain -- 5

The fact that there were NO votes on this is hilarious. WHY?

Given the results, I take it the "alternates for divisionals" proposal prompted the most spirited discussion ... which would also be hilarious!

It sounded like a team had an "alternate" right there when the false start happened and were mistaken the kids could get in. A lot of coaches think the concept of alternates is an honor, etc. Waiting in the wings. But in reality, asked the kids who are in that position. They loathe it. It is awful. You want some kid to not show up or get sick so you can swim? No decent kid really wants that, so you feel dirty about it. They parade you up, you wait, and then they parade you out. There is that one story from IAS that they all hang their hat on that is the stuff of legend - an alternate gets in and wins it all - wow, how awesome. But mostly, it just makes the kids feel terrible.

Yes, as bad as it is for IAS, it would be 10x worse for divisionals. Just a dumb proposal. To think that 20 team reps supported it is comical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Proposal One - withdrawn prior to the meeting, no vote

Proposal Two (pass) -changing the calculation of yards to meters
Yes -- 100
No -- 0
Abstain -- 2

Proposal Three (pass) -bid in for divisional exchange
Yes -- 102
No -- 0
Abstain -- 0

Proposal Four (pass) at least one team rep on the cover sheet
Yes -- 100
No -- 2
Abstain -- 0

Proposal Five (pass) - alternates/divisionals - not having them
Yes -- 77
No -- 20
Abstain -- 5

The fact that there were NO votes on this is hilarious. WHY?

Given the results, I take it the "alternates for divisionals" proposal prompted the most spirited discussion ... which would also be hilarious!

It sounded like a team had an "alternate" right there when the false start happened and were mistaken the kids could get in. A lot of coaches think the concept of alternates is an honor, etc. Waiting in the wings. But in reality, asked the kids who are in that position. They loathe it. It is awful. You want some kid to not show up or get sick so you can swim? No decent kid really wants that, so you feel dirty about it. They parade you up, you wait, and then they parade you out. There is that one story from IAS that they all hang their hat on that is the stuff of legend - an alternate gets in and wins it all - wow, how awesome. But mostly, it just makes the kids feel terrible.

Yes, as bad as it is for IAS, it would be 10x worse for divisionals. Just a dumb proposal. To think that 20 team reps supported it is comical.

Agreed. Lining kids up or even expecting them to show up and sit around all afternoon in hopes o swimming at divisionals is just silly. Sure some kids may already be there, but overall it doesn't make sense.

the board's stance, which I agree with, is that there are no true alternates for divisionals. they do not have kids waiting in the wings at divisionals. They are only listed as alternates for the bid in process.

[Anonymous]

I agree with PP that being an alternate is a choice and one that many kids are happy to take for IAS. No one is forced to go as an alternate, but it is a wonderful option for kids who *just* missed making All Stars. For the kids who don't want to do it, scratch them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Proposal One - withdrawn prior to the meeting, no vote

Proposal Two (pass) -changing the calculation of yards to meters
Yes -- 100
No -- 0
Abstain -- 2

Proposal Three (pass) -bid in for divisional exchange
Yes -- 102
No -- 0
Abstain -- 0

Proposal Four (pass) at least one team rep on the cover sheet
Yes -- 100
No -- 2
Abstain -- 0

Proposal Five (pass) - alternates/divisionals - not having them
Yes -- 77
No -- 20
Abstain -- 5

The fact that there were NO votes on this is hilarious. WHY?

Given the results, I take it the "alternates for divisionals" proposal prompted the most spirited discussion ... which would also be hilarious!

It sounded like a team had an "alternate" right there when the false start happened and were mistaken the kids could get in. A lot of coaches think the concept of alternates is an honor, etc. Waiting in the wings. But in reality, asked the kids who are in that position. They loathe it. It is awful. You want some kid to not show up or get sick so you can swim? No decent kid really wants that, so you feel dirty about it. They parade you up, you wait, and then they parade you out. There is that one story from IAS that they all hang their hat on that is the stuff of legend - an alternate gets in and wins it all - wow, how awesome. But mostly, it just makes the kids feel terrible.

Kids have a choice if they want to be considered as an alternate. They can scratch and remove themselves from the situation if they don’t like it. Some kids are thrilled to be there, and I hope they don’t take that opportunity away from alternates.

there are no alternates at divisionals.

[Anonymous]

Wait, I'm so confused! I've been to divisionals where an alternate swam. He got like 3rd place too. I can't remember why he wasn't swimming the event in the first place, but he was next fasted on the list so he swam. Was that not the way it was supposed to happen???

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I want to know the result of the eligibility question. reps "voted" to let the board know their position/feedback not so they would change it.

Could you clarify what you mean here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wait, I'm so confused! I've been to divisionals where an alternate swam. He got like 3rd place too. I can't remember why he wasn't swimming the event in the first place, but he was next fasted on the list so he swam. Was that not the way it was supposed to happen???

So divisionals has scratch ins. So you seed and there is a list based on time. So let's say that morning a kid is throwing up (happens almost every time). The next in line would be asked if available, etc. until you get a swimmer in. Sometimes at the meet a kid doesn't show up for some reason and they will scramble to find a kid in that age group with a suit (that doesn't have two events already) and they can swim.

But, if a kid should DQ at the meet with a false start, there is not a kid ready to go right there on deck to sub in immediately. A DQ is a DQ for divisionals. There are no alternates.

That is not the case for IAS. There are assigned alternates on deck for IAS/ASR.

[Anonymous]

My kid was an IAS alternate and was grateful to be there because she was part of a fun week.

We approached it as we didn't want someone to DQ that is bad karma, we wanted someone to win a trip to Hawaii last minute so she would get in.

She didn't get In, but she had a blast.

[Anonymous]

My DD wants the other kids to get sick so that the alternate scan swim.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was a rule to change the conversion formula for yard and meter pools. There are two pools in NVSL that are yard pools. It was to bring it in line with the industry standard, but it is now slightly worse for those two pools (it could be argued that those times had an advantage before).

There was a ballot or agreement in line with USA Swimming rules on swimming in your gender assigned at birth if male, but a female can swim as a male.

A rule on when bid ins with seed times need to be exchanged.

A rule of clarification. Apparently some pool last year had an alternate on deck for Divisionals. There was a false start and they wanted to throw their alternate in. It became a thing. So there are no alternates at Divisionals (only ASR and IAS) so a false start is simply a DQ. Throwing some random kid would be advantageous to that team with the kid on deck for that (perhaps a chance to get that kid into IAS). The only fill the lane scenarios at Divisionals are scratches, not for DQs.

A few of these got slightly heated. We will see what the vote turned out to be on them.

Not really as they were never allowed to host Divisionals or relay carnival so times only impacted their internal rosters for meets and not the league as a whole.

And starting this year it will only impact 1 pool as KG has been redone and will not be meters.

the debate on divisional "alternates" was silly. No team is going to line kids up as alternates for divisionals. It is silly enough to see kids there for IAS and ASR, but at least there they get a ribbon for showing up.

You are wrong. Our pool submits every kids as an alternate on the .000000000001 chance they will swim. As a data person this drives me crazy so I am thrilled to see this rule so we will no longer have 20 alternates an event.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Proposal One - withdrawn prior to the meeting, no vote

Proposal Two (pass) -changing the calculation of yards to meters
Yes -- 100
No -- 0
Abstain -- 2

Proposal Three (pass) -bid in for divisional exchange
Yes -- 102
No -- 0
Abstain -- 0

Proposal Four (pass) at least one team rep on the cover sheet
Yes -- 100
No -- 2
Abstain -- 0

Proposal Five (pass) - alternates/divisionals - not having them
Yes -- 77
No -- 20
Abstain -- 5

The fact that there were NO votes on this is hilarious. WHY?

Given the results, I take it the "alternates for divisionals" proposal prompted the most spirited discussion ... which would also be hilarious!

It sounded like a team had an "alternate" right there when the false start happened and were mistaken the kids could get in. A lot of coaches think the concept of alternates is an honor, etc. Waiting in the wings. But in reality, asked the kids who are in that position. They loathe it. It is awful. You want some kid to not show up or get sick so you can swim? No decent kid really wants that, so you feel dirty about it. They parade you up, you wait, and then they parade you out. There is that one story from IAS that they all hang their hat on that is the stuff of legend - an alternate gets in and wins it all - wow, how awesome. But mostly, it just makes the kids feel terrible.

Kids have a choice if they want to be considered as an alternate. They can scratch and remove themselves from the situation if they don’t like it. Some kids are thrilled to be there, and I hope they don’t take that opportunity away from alternates.

Agree. I know MANY kids who are thrilled to be an alternative for IAS and get the patch and pool swag. If they don’t like it, they can decline. No one is forcing them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was a rule to change the conversion formula for yard and meter pools. There are two pools in NVSL that are yard pools. It was to bring it in line with the industry standard, but it is now slightly worse for those two pools (it could be argued that those times had an advantage before).

There was a ballot or agreement in line with USA Swimming rules on swimming in your gender assigned at birth if male, but a female can swim as a male.

A rule on when bid ins with seed times need to be exchanged.

A rule of clarification. Apparently some pool last year had an alternate on deck for Divisionals. There was a false start and they wanted to throw their alternate in. It became a thing. So there are no alternates at Divisionals (only ASR and IAS) so a false start is simply a DQ. Throwing some random kid would be advantageous to that team with the kid on deck for that (perhaps a chance to get that kid into IAS). The only fill the lane scenarios at Divisionals are scratches, not for DQs.

A few of these got slightly heated. We will see what the vote turned out to be on them.

Not really as they were never allowed to host Divisionals or relay carnival so times only impacted their internal rosters for meets and not the league as a whole.

And starting this year it will only impact 1 pool as KG has been redone and will not be meters.

the debate on divisional "alternates" was silly. No team is going to line kids up as alternates for divisionals. It is silly enough to see kids there for IAS and ASR, but at least there they get a ribbon for showing up.

You are wrong. Our pool submits every kids as an alternate on the .000000000001 chance they will swim. As a data person this drives me crazy so I am thrilled to see this rule so we will no longer have 20 alternates an event.

This is a bid in alternate list (team rep here) which is different than an official alternate standing on deck. You will still have to do the same thing but in SwimTopia so no idea how that works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Proposal One - withdrawn prior to the meeting, no vote

Proposal Two (pass) -changing the calculation of yards to meters
Yes -- 100
No -- 0
Abstain -- 2

Proposal Three (pass) -bid in for divisional exchange
Yes -- 102
No -- 0
Abstain -- 0

Proposal Four (pass) at least one team rep on the cover sheet
Yes -- 100
No -- 2
Abstain -- 0

Proposal Five (pass) - alternates/divisionals - not having them
Yes -- 77
No -- 20
Abstain -- 5

The fact that there were NO votes on this is hilarious. WHY?

Given the results, I take it the "alternates for divisionals" proposal prompted the most spirited discussion ... which would also be hilarious!

It sounded like a team had an "alternate" right there when the false start happened and were mistaken the kids could get in. A lot of coaches think the concept of alternates is an honor, etc. Waiting in the wings. But in reality, asked the kids who are in that position. They loathe it. It is awful. You want some kid to not show up or get sick so you can swim? No decent kid really wants that, so you feel dirty about it. They parade you up, you wait, and then they parade you out. There is that one story from IAS that they all hang their hat on that is the stuff of legend - an alternate gets in and wins it all - wow, how awesome. But mostly, it just makes the kids feel terrible.

Kids have a choice if they want to be considered as an alternate. They can scratch and remove themselves from the situation if they don’t like it. Some kids are thrilled to be there, and I hope they don’t take that opportunity away from alternates.

Agree. I know MANY kids who are thrilled to be an alternative for IAS and get the patch and pool swag. If they don’t like it, they can decline. No one is forcing them.

Giving a few more kids a chance to be part of the IAS process kind of makes sense, and being in the top 20 in NVSL is a notable achievement worthy of some recognition. Extending that honor to divisionals doesn't make sense though. At best, alternates for divisionals would be the 3rd seed on their own team in those event and likely the 5th or 6th best swimmer on their own team for that age group -- otherwise they'd already be filling slots in other events.