What happens to immersion programs with new regional programs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is in an elementary language immersion program in a school that is not in our region in any of the proposed models. Further, the middle school they feed into is also not in our region.

Has anyone seen any information on what is going to happen to kids who are supposed to be going into middle school the year the regional model is implemented?

Won't be applicable to me, but what about the younger elementary immersion kids? Do they get to stay in their ES?

I’m sorry but why you would you even put your kid in this situation? Lemme guess you’re a white family bussing your kid away from your majority Hispanic home ES to learn Spanish somewhere else in the county on MY dime?!?

There are no immersion HS in MCPS so if you are trying it in ES you must think you’re gaining the system somehow. Dot he research and stop complaining here

lol. amazing.

You are making quite an assumption here. My home ES is 36% white with 22% FARMS, and my child's immersion school is 16% white with 44% FARMS.

What I am trying to do is avoid having my child start 6th grade next year in their immersion feeder middle school (White Oak MS) and then be forced to change to a different middle school the next year--either back to our non-immersion home middle school or to the immersion middle school (Westland MS) which will be in our new region.

I am looking for consistency in where my child goes to school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think immersion programs have a good shot at surviving. Especially the two-way immersion programs, which have pretty mixed-to-poor academic results.

The poor results are the result of poor implementation as documented in the OSA report. In addition, it's important to note that they only looked at outcomes during elementary school. It's a common finding that immersion students experience lower performance at first, but then their performance increases and exceeds that of their peers later on. That being said, MCPS's TWI programs have not done as well as similar programs in other jurisdictions because MCPS hasn't implemented them effectively. https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB9903.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think immersion programs have a good shot at surviving. Especially the two-way immersion programs, which have pretty mixed-to-poor academic results.

I think (hope?) the OWI programs will survive one way or another. These are very old programs.

Very old is code for classist and racist FYI

What is the matter with you? It means they have been around for a long time. They are pure lottery programs and busing is provided. How exactly are they "classist and racist"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is in an elementary language immersion program in a school that is not in our region in any of the proposed models. Further, the middle school they feed into is also not in our region.

Has anyone seen any information on what is going to happen to kids who are supposed to be going into middle school the year the regional model is implemented?

Won't be applicable to me, but what about the younger elementary immersion kids? Do they get to stay in their ES?

I’m sorry but why you would you even put your kid in this situation? Lemme guess you’re a white family bussing your kid away from your majority Hispanic home ES to learn Spanish somewhere else in the county on MY dime?!?

There are no immersion HS in MCPS so if you are trying it in ES you must think you’re gaining the system somehow. Dot he research and stop complaining here

Wow, you're a jerk. Let me guess - lottery number was too high for your kiddo to get in and now you just hate everyone?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that it's a real possibility they will eliminate these programs. The Office of Shared Accountability put out a report early last year about the Two Way Immersion programs and some negative outcomes in them. I think they are setting the stage to eliminate them. I hope they don't and instead figure out how to properly support these programs (the report noted a ton of problems with the implementation), but they cost money to support. And if they are trying to make opportunities the same across the county (an equality model, not an equity model) these programs are not evenly distributed.

They absolutely should eliminate these programs. MCPS can’t even teach kids how to read in any language! There is NO MONEY for these fluff programs.

And yet there's money to create another 30+ new regional programs. How magic!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think immersion programs have a good shot at surviving. Especially the two-way immersion programs, which have pretty mixed-to-poor academic results.

I think (hope?) the OWI programs will survive one way or another. These are very old programs.

Very old is code for classist and racist FYI

What is the matter with you? It means they have been around for a long time. They are pure lottery programs and busing is provided. How exactly are they "classist and racist"?

DP. There are many trolls on dcum. Don’t waste your energy responding to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that it's a real possibility they will eliminate these programs. The Office of Shared Accountability put out a report early last year about the Two Way Immersion programs and some negative outcomes in them. I think they are setting the stage to eliminate them. I hope they don't and instead figure out how to properly support these programs (the report noted a ton of problems with the implementation), but they cost money to support. And if they are trying to make opportunities the same across the county (an equality model, not an equity model) these programs are not evenly distributed.

They absolutely should eliminate these programs. MCPS can’t even teach kids how to read in any language! There is NO MONEY for these fluff programs.

This is the answer. We have no money for this. AND it is getting harder and harder to find foreign language teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think immersion programs have a good shot at surviving. Especially the two-way immersion programs, which have pretty mixed-to-poor academic results.

I think (hope?) the OWI programs will survive one way or another. These are very old programs.

Very old is code for classist and racist FYI

What is the matter with you? It means they have been around for a long time. They are pure lottery programs and busing is provided. How exactly are they "classist and racist"?

They have been around a long time and there are a lot of committed teachers and families who would be loud about proposals to eliminate them. I’m not sure Taylor or the board would really want to pick this fight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is in an elementary language immersion program in a school that is not in our region in any of the proposed models. Further, the middle school they feed into is also not in our region.

Has anyone seen any information on what is going to happen to kids who are supposed to be going into middle school the year the regional model is implemented?

Won't be applicable to me, but what about the younger elementary immersion kids? Do they get to stay in their ES?

I’m sorry but why you would you even put your kid in this situation? Lemme guess you’re a white family bussing your kid away from your majority Hispanic home ES to learn Spanish somewhere else in the county on MY dime?!?

There are no immersion HS in MCPS so if you are trying it in ES you must think you’re gaining the system somehow. Dot he research and stop complaining here

lol. amazing.

You are making quite an assumption here. My home ES is 36% white with 22% FARMS, and my child's immersion school is 16% white with 44% FARMS.

What I am trying to do is avoid having my child start 6th grade next year in their immersion feeder middle school (White Oak MS) and then be forced to change to a different middle school the next year--either back to our non-immersion home middle school or to the immersion middle school (Westland MS) which will be in our new region.

I am looking for consistency in where my child goes to school.

They will probably let them finish it out if they start but it isn't a guarantee. You could consider trying to request a COSA to Westland to be more certain? Or just skip immersion middle school and stick with your home school (assuming you're not facing boundary changes, in which case your kid would be moving between 6th and 7th grade anyway.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that it's a real possibility they will eliminate these programs. The Office of Shared Accountability put out a report early last year about the Two Way Immersion programs and some negative outcomes in them. I think they are setting the stage to eliminate them. I hope they don't and instead figure out how to properly support these programs (the report noted a ton of problems with the implementation), but they cost money to support. And if they are trying to make opportunities the same across the county (an equality model, not an equity model) these programs are not evenly distributed.

They absolutely should eliminate these programs. MCPS can’t even teach kids how to read in any language! There is NO MONEY for these fluff programs.

And yet there's money to create another 30+ new regional programs. How magic!

+100
The TWI programs are not even a decade old. This is just MCPS being MCPS - instead of practicing thoughtful implementation and building on what they have (and fixing the problems), they are just tearing things down to bring in shiny new expensive things that they can take credit for when they apply to their cushy edtech jobs. Implementation will be a disaster and they won't be properly resourced, just like the current programs, so in less than a decade someone else will come in and say "Look, this isn't working, let's eliminate it and create something new (that will also fail but we'll be gone by then, har har)"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that it's a real possibility they will eliminate these programs. The Office of Shared Accountability put out a report early last year about the Two Way Immersion programs and some negative outcomes in them. I think they are setting the stage to eliminate them. I hope they don't and instead figure out how to properly support these programs (the report noted a ton of problems with the implementation), but they cost money to support. And if they are trying to make opportunities the same across the county (an equality model, not an equity model) these programs are not evenly distributed.

They absolutely should eliminate these programs. MCPS can’t even teach kids how to read in any language! There is NO MONEY for these fluff programs.

And yet there's money to create another 30+ new regional programs. How magic!

+100
The TWI programs are not even a decade old. This is just MCPS being MCPS - instead of practicing thoughtful implementation and building on what they have (and fixing the problems), they are just tearing things down to bring in shiny new expensive things that they can take credit for when they apply to their cushy edtech jobs. Implementation will be a disaster and they won't be properly resourced, just like the current programs, so in less than a decade someone else will come in and say "Look, this isn't working, let's eliminate it and create something new (that will also fail but we'll be gone by then, har har)"

The OWI French program celebrated it's 50th anniversary last year, FYI. Not a new program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that it's a real possibility they will eliminate these programs. The Office of Shared Accountability put out a report early last year about the Two Way Immersion programs and some negative outcomes in them. I think they are setting the stage to eliminate them. I hope they don't and instead figure out how to properly support these programs (the report noted a ton of problems with the implementation), but they cost money to support. And if they are trying to make opportunities the same across the county (an equality model, not an equity model) these programs are not evenly distributed.

They absolutely should eliminate these programs. MCPS can’t even teach kids how to read in any language! There is NO MONEY for these fluff programs.

And yet there's money to create another 30+ new regional programs. How magic!

+100
The TWI programs are not even a decade old. This is just MCPS being MCPS - instead of practicing thoughtful implementation and building on what they have (and fixing the problems), they are just tearing things down to bring in shiny new expensive things that they can take credit for when they apply to their cushy edtech jobs. Implementation will be a disaster and they won't be properly resourced, just like the current programs, so in less than a decade someone else will come in and say "Look, this isn't working, let's eliminate it and create something new (that will also fail but we'll be gone by then, har har)"

The OWI French program celebrated it's 50th anniversary last year, FYI. Not a new program.

Yes. Both are important issues but the lottery and neighborhood programs are being conflated in this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think immersion programs have a good shot at surviving. Especially the two-way immersion programs, which have pretty mixed-to-poor academic results.

The poor results are the result of poor implementation as documented in the OSA report. In addition, it's important to note that they only looked at outcomes during elementary school. It's a common finding that immersion students experience lower performance at first, but then their performance increases and exceeds that of their peers later on. That being said, MCPS's TWI programs have not done as well as similar programs in other jurisdictions because MCPS hasn't implemented them effectively. https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB9903.html

Poor implementation is always the explanation for MCPS's failures.

And while that might be true, if MCPS can't implement a program or policy effectively, than we have to question whether it's a realistic fit for MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think immersion programs have a good shot at surviving. Especially the two-way immersion programs, which have pretty mixed-to-poor academic results.

The poor results are the result of poor implementation as documented in the OSA report. In addition, it's important to note that they only looked at outcomes during elementary school. It's a common finding that immersion students experience lower performance at first, but then their performance increases and exceeds that of their peers later on. That being said, MCPS's TWI programs have not done as well as similar programs in other jurisdictions because MCPS hasn't implemented them effectively. https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB9903.html

Poor implementation is always the explanation for MCPS's failures.

And while that might be true, if MCPS can't implement a program or policy effectively, than we have to question whether it's a realistic fit for MCPS.

Are you saying that because they can't implement one type of program effectively within a few years they should scrap it (and all the investment that was put into setting it up) and then turn around and implement dozens of new programs in other scholls all at once? What are you smoking?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that it's a real possibility they will eliminate these programs. The Office of Shared Accountability put out a report early last year about the Two Way Immersion programs and some negative outcomes in them. I think they are setting the stage to eliminate them. I hope they don't and instead figure out how to properly support these programs (the report noted a ton of problems with the implementation), but they cost money to support. And if they are trying to make opportunities the same across the county (an equality model, not an equity model) these programs are not evenly distributed.

They absolutely should eliminate these programs. MCPS can’t even teach kids how to read in any language! There is NO MONEY for these fluff programs.

And yet there's money to create another 30+ new regional programs. How magic!

+100
The TWI programs are not even a decade old. This is just MCPS being MCPS - instead of practicing thoughtful implementation and building on what they have (and fixing the problems), they are just tearing things down to bring in shiny new expensive things that they can take credit for when they apply to their cushy edtech jobs. Implementation will be a disaster and they won't be properly resourced, just like the current programs, so in less than a decade someone else will come in and say "Look, this isn't working, let's eliminate it and create something new (that will also fail but we'll be gone by then, har har)"

The OWI French program celebrated it's 50th anniversary last year, FYI. Not a new program.

Don't worry they will use the TWI evaluation to justify ending the old programs too