Managing 2e kid (ADHD+highly intelligent) in MCPS high school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son, now in 12th grade, is 2E - intellectually gifted and with severe ADHD. We’re also in a large public high school (not in MCPS). We were in a similar position going into 9th grade, and my son really wanted to take honors and AP classes - similar to your son in that he was afraid of being bored, is naturally very intellectually curious, and wanted to be in classes with other kids who care about learning.

We did a few things that ended up working well for him: First, he does have a very supportive 504 plan with lots of accommodations – extra time on tests, flexibility to turn in assignments late when he forgot them, and the option to reduce certain homework assignments (like doing every other math problem). We also gave him a lot of support at home - I helped him organize his homework plan every day after school, helped him set up study plans for tests, etc. Basically EF support. He also had to limit activities that happened immediately after school, since his ADHD meds would wear off around 6pm and he had to get all his homework done after school.

And last, we essentially lowered our (and especially his) expectations of his grades. Even though we knew he had the intellectual ability to get A’s, because of his slow processing speed and his meds wearing off in the early evening, he just couldn’t “grind” work out. He couldn’t study for tests as much as he often needed to, and he had to do a lot of homework on the weekends. He ended up taking nearly all honors classes, with a few AP classes in his favorite subjects (math and science), and he’ll be graduating with mostly B’s (and a handful of A’s).

Over time he got better at organizing his work, and now that he’s a senior I no longer need to provide EF support (he still misses assignments here and there). He also got into his first choice college (for engineering), and overall has been engaged with school and enjoys learning. I think if we had really pushed him to get A’s, it would’ve affected his mental health, and if he had avoided honors and AP classes, he would’ve been really bored.

I would love if you could share which engineering school. Really looking for one that is realistic with a lot of Bs!

Sure, it’s RIT. Also got into Rose Hulman and Clarkson. He did well on his SAT and AP tests, so I think that helped even though he had lots of B’s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why a kid should get extended time to take advanced classes. If the kid is so “bored” in regular class he should use that time to work on executive functioning until he is able to take advanced classes without all of the hand holding and extras. It’s just ridiculous. I realize that pride is at stake for the parents of these kids, but it’s gone too far.

Yeah, too bad Junior can do Differential Equations in high school. He should sit in Algebra 1 until he can write fast enough for the teacher.

[Anonymous]

OP here. To the PPs above with the helpful long posts, thank you so much for this. I will definitely take all of your points into account, especially about tempering my expectations around grades and the EF coach. Were there any particular AP or honors classes that were good for your kid who is going to study engineering? My son also wants to study engineering and I feel like not only do I have to figure out how to make school 'work' for him --- but also how to take the 'right' classes to get into an engineering degree. It is a lot even though I work in a school. I am an ELA teacher in VA and just don't know that much about math and science in MoCo.

To the PP who keeps insisting that these kids should not take advanced classes. Let me repeat - your attitude damages children. These students die emotionally of boredom and give up on school without the right help and right challenge. Please read this and consider it: https://qz.com/317309/how-some-of-americas-most-gifted-kids-wind-up-in-prison

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand why a kid should get extended time to take advanced classes. If the kid is so “bored” in regular class he should use that time to work on executive functioning until he is able to take advanced classes without all of the hand holding and extras. It’s just ridiculous. I realize that pride is at stake for the parents of these kids, but it’s gone too far.

Yeah, too bad Junior can do Differential Equations in high school. He should sit in Algebra 1 until he can write fast enough for the teacher.

He can do differential equations. WHY should he get EXTRA TIME to do differential equations. That’s the question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. To the PPs above with the helpful long posts, thank you so much for this. I will definitely take all of your points into account, especially about tempering my expectations around grades and the EF coach. Were there any particular AP or honors classes that were good for your kid who is going to study engineering? My son also wants to study engineering and I feel like not only do I have to figure out how to make school 'work' for him --- but also how to take the 'right' classes to get into an engineering degree. It is a lot even though I work in a school. I am an ELA teacher in VA and just don't know that much about math and science in MoCo.

To the PP who keeps insisting that these kids should not take advanced classes. Let me repeat - your attitude damages children. These students die emotionally of boredom and give up on school without the right help and right challenge. Please read this and consider it: https://qz.com/317309/how-some-of-americas-most-gifted-kids-wind-up-in-prison

It sounds like your $hitty teaching is what actually damages children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. To the PPs above with the helpful long posts, thank you so much for this. I will definitely take all of your points into account, especially about tempering my expectations around grades and the EF coach. Were there any particular AP or honors classes that were good for your kid who is going to study engineering? My son also wants to study engineering and I feel like not only do I have to figure out how to make school 'work' for him --- but also how to take the 'right' classes to get into an engineering degree. It is a lot even though I work in a school. I am an ELA teacher in VA and just don't know that much about math and science in MoCo.

To the PP who keeps insisting that these kids should not take advanced classes. Let me repeat - your attitude damages children. These students die emotionally of boredom and give up on school without the right help and right challenge. Please read this and consider it: https://qz.com/317309/how-some-of-americas-most-gifted-kids-wind-up-in-prison

It sounds like your $hitty teaching is what actually damages children.

And again, I am not saying they shouldn’t take advanced classes. I am saying they should NOT get extra time in their advanced classes.

Honestly, you sound dumb.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. To the PPs above with the helpful long posts, thank you so much for this. I will definitely take all of your points into account, especially about tempering my expectations around grades and the EF coach. Were there any particular AP or honors classes that were good for your kid who is going to study engineering? My son also wants to study engineering and I feel like not only do I have to figure out how to make school 'work' for him --- but also how to take the 'right' classes to get into an engineering degree. It is a lot even though I work in a school. I am an ELA teacher in VA and just don't know that much about math and science in MoCo.

To the PP who keeps insisting that these kids should not take advanced classes. Let me repeat - your attitude damages children. These students die emotionally of boredom and give up on school without the right help and right challenge. Please read this and consider it: https://qz.com/317309/how-some-of-americas-most-gifted-kids-wind-up-in-prison

I think in your first post you mentioned that he is weak in math. That will be challenging with engineering. Also engineering requires a lot of physics which is also math heavy. Maybe get him a math tutor. I will be honest. I teach Honors and AP science in a MCPS HS. I find kids like your son difficult to manage. It is hard to provide what they need and want given all the other kids we are juggling and dealing with. As you know, even neurotypical kids with no identified needs require a lot of attention and support. My recommendation is to take it one year at a time and perhaps start out 9th grade with all honors classes. See how that goes and then add in 1-2 APs in 10th grade

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. To the PPs above with the helpful long posts, thank you so much for this. I will definitely take all of your points into account, especially about tempering my expectations around grades and the EF coach. Were there any particular AP or honors classes that were good for your kid who is going to study engineering? My son also wants to study engineering and I feel like not only do I have to figure out how to make school 'work' for him --- but also how to take the 'right' classes to get into an engineering degree. It is a lot even though I work in a school. I am an ELA teacher in VA and just don't know that much about math and science in MoCo.

To the PP who keeps insisting that these kids should not take advanced classes. Let me repeat - your attitude damages children. These students die emotionally of boredom and give up on school without the right help and right challenge. Please read this and consider it: https://qz.com/317309/how-some-of-americas-most-gifted-kids-wind-up-in-prison

One option might be to go the early college route once he hits junior year. They have an engineering major. It is less busywork, would give him a good sense of what engineering requires, and could help him build independent college ready EF skills before he is far from home in college.

If you want to consider going that route you should look at the admissions requirements and make sure you are hitting those classes freshman and sophomore year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son, now in 12th grade, is 2E - intellectually gifted and with severe ADHD. We’re also in a large public high school (not in MCPS). We were in a similar position going into 9th grade, and my son really wanted to take honors and AP classes - similar to your son in that he was afraid of being bored, is naturally very intellectually curious, and wanted to be in classes with other kids who care about learning.

We did a few things that ended up working well for him: First, he does have a very supportive 504 plan with lots of accommodations – extra time on tests, flexibility to turn in assignments late when he forgot them, and the option to reduce certain homework assignments (like doing every other math problem). We also gave him a lot of support at home - I helped him organize his homework plan every day after school, helped him set up study plans for tests, etc. Basically EF support. He also had to limit activities that happened immediately after school, since his ADHD meds would wear off around 6pm and he had to get all his homework done after school.

And last, we essentially lowered our (and especially his) expectations of his grades. Even though we knew he had the intellectual ability to get A’s, because of his slow processing speed and his meds wearing off in the early evening, he just couldn’t “grind” work out. He couldn’t study for tests as much as he often needed to, and he had to do a lot of homework on the weekends. He ended up taking nearly all honors classes, with a few AP classes in his favorite subjects (math and science), and he’ll be graduating with mostly B’s (and a handful of A’s).

Over time he got better at organizing his work, and now that he’s a senior I no longer need to provide EF support (he still misses assignments here and there). He also got into his first choice college (for engineering), and overall has been engaged with school and enjoys learning. I think if we had really pushed him to get A’s, it would’ve affected his mental health, and if he had avoided honors and AP classes, he would’ve been really bored.

I would love if you could share which engineering school. Really looking for one that is realistic with a lot of Bs!

Sure, it’s RIT. Also got into Rose Hulman and Clarkson. He did well on his SAT and AP tests, so I think that helped even though he had lots of B’s.

Thank you! RIT is on our list and also considering RH but we’re a little nervous about the location. Clarkson in NY?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. To the PPs above with the helpful long posts, thank you so much for this. I will definitely take all of your points into account, especially about tempering my expectations around grades and the EF coach. Were there any particular AP or honors classes that were good for your kid who is going to study engineering? My son also wants to study engineering and I feel like not only do I have to figure out how to make school 'work' for him --- but also how to take the 'right' classes to get into an engineering degree. It is a lot even though I work in a school. I am an ELA teacher in VA and just don't know that much about math and science in MoCo.

To the PP who keeps insisting that these kids should not take advanced classes. Let me repeat - your attitude damages children. These students die emotionally of boredom and give up on school without the right help and right challenge. Please read this and consider it: https://qz.com/317309/how-some-of-americas-most-gifted-kids-wind-up-in-prison

The thing that worries me here is how much work you’re taking on to make the school work for him. What’s going to happen in college? ADHD doesn’t go away, and he won’t have learned how to make the school work for him because he’s spent so much time just trying to keep up with the classes.

[Anonymous]

WJ parent here again.
The AP physics teachers are really good, as are the AP chem and I loved my kids honors chem teacher so much,
Most of the engineering kids take tj two AP con sci classes too. They aren’t great — that’s a really hard area to hire for plus the curriculum for both is really outdated but the kids work together and work through it.

There is an engineering club that meets during lunch once a week or maybe twice where they build stuff. There is also a robotics club that competes. Definitely encourage him to get involved in some clubs—WJ has a ton of them and it’s a good way for him to meet people.

There are a couple of engineering electives also that my kid hasn’t taken yet but has heard good things about — I think the engineering club sponsor teaches them.

I agree with PP that the advanced math is omportant and most of the WJ emgoneerkng applicants are aiming to get to at least MV Calc by senior year (so typical might be Alf 2, precalc, Calc bc, MV). There’s no shame in getting a tutor. For some kids with adhd (this was me), the math is easy but it’s hard to follow someone explaining math — it’s the receptive language skills not the math skills. The teachers are mostly also helpful about explaining things during lunch (shout out for all those great teachers who do that).

For the negative Nelly poster above—-my kids science teachers all say he is an excellent student. He may not have the A because he forgets to turn some stuff in, but he participates a ton in class and does well on the labs and tests. He’s very engaged and likes the topic. I think the more problematic aspects of his ADHD are so much better in HS than they were in MS, in part because he’s maturing but also because his brain is usefully occupied. For kids with ADHD, keeping the brain occupied is 90% of the battle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. To the PPs above with the helpful long posts, thank you so much for this. I will definitely take all of your points into account, especially about tempering my expectations around grades and the EF coach. Were there any particular AP or honors classes that were good for your kid who is going to study engineering? My son also wants to study engineering and I feel like not only do I have to figure out how to make school 'work' for him --- but also how to take the 'right' classes to get into an engineering degree. It is a lot even though I work in a school. I am an ELA teacher in VA and just don't know that much about math and science in MoCo.

To the PP who keeps insisting that these kids should not take advanced classes. Let me repeat - your attitude damages children. These students die emotionally of boredom and give up on school without the right help and right challenge. Please read this and consider it: https://qz.com/317309/how-some-of-americas-most-gifted-kids-wind-up-in-prison

The thing that worries me here is how much work you’re taking on to make the school work for him. What’s going to happen in college? ADHD doesn’t go away, and he won’t have learned how to make the school work for him because he’s spent so much time just trying to keep up with the classes.

It may not “go away” but there is a substantial brain maturation part of adhd. They typically lag about 2 years behind in brain maturation. You wouldn’t expect a 12 year old to keep track of all this but a 16 year old is a different story. Also, college is soooo much easier on an EF level than HS — you don’t take 7 classes at a time plus the professors generally don’t expect you to do a lot of basic busy work and hand in things like notes. McPS requires a minimum about of “praticd prep” assignments per semester so teachers are forced to give all this stuff which college professors never would. Also, the goal here is to scaffold skills—th same way the goal with a dyslexic is to teach them to eventually read independently but that may require extra support for some period.

You sound you like know nothing about adhd so should probably show yourself out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. To the PPs above with the helpful long posts, thank you so much for this. I will definitely take all of your points into account, especially about tempering my expectations around grades and the EF coach. Were there any particular AP or honors classes that were good for your kid who is going to study engineering? My son also wants to study engineering and I feel like not only do I have to figure out how to make school 'work' for him --- but also how to take the 'right' classes to get into an engineering degree. It is a lot even though I work in a school. I am an ELA teacher in VA and just don't know that much about math and science in MoCo.

To the PP who keeps insisting that these kids should not take advanced classes. Let me repeat - your attitude damages children. These students die emotionally of boredom and give up on school without the right help and right challenge. Please read this and consider it: https://qz.com/317309/how-some-of-americas-most-gifted-kids-wind-up-in-prison

I'm the PP whose 2E senior son is going into engineering. He took AP Physics 1&2, AP Physics C, AP Calc AB, AP Computer science principles, and AP Comp Sci. The rest of his classes were honors level, and he took some tech ed electives. He also stopped his language after 10th grade and took a study hall instead, and that helped him manage his workload (the engineering-focused colleges he looked at didn't require more than 2 years of a language). He loves calculus and physics, so even though he gets B's in them, he's highly motivated to learn and has always been very engaged in those classes. I'd also recommend joining a robotics team or another type of engineering extracurricular - they're more hands on and a lot of fun for an engineering-focused kid.

[Anonymous]

Will also add a lot of kids that AP comp sci principles as a freshman. It’s a super dumb class but it’s easy and it fulfills the McPS tech requirement. If you google “easiest AP” online, it’s often listed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son, now in 12th grade, is 2E - intellectually gifted and with severe ADHD. We’re also in a large public high school (not in MCPS). We were in a similar position going into 9th grade, and my son really wanted to take honors and AP classes - similar to your son in that he was afraid of being bored, is naturally very intellectually curious, and wanted to be in classes with other kids who care about learning.

We did a few things that ended up working well for him: First, he does have a very supportive 504 plan with lots of accommodations – extra time on tests, flexibility to turn in assignments late when he forgot them, and the option to reduce certain homework assignments (like doing every other math problem). We also gave him a lot of support at home - I helped him organize his homework plan every day after school, helped him set up study plans for tests, etc. Basically EF support. He also had to limit activities that happened immediately after school, since his ADHD meds would wear off around 6pm and he had to get all his homework done after school.

And last, we essentially lowered our (and especially his) expectations of his grades. Even though we knew he had the intellectual ability to get A’s, because of his slow processing speed and his meds wearing off in the early evening, he just couldn’t “grind” work out. He couldn’t study for tests as much as he often needed to, and he had to do a lot of homework on the weekends. He ended up taking nearly all honors classes, with a few AP classes in his favorite subjects (math and science), and he’ll be graduating with mostly B’s (and a handful of A’s).

Over time he got better at organizing his work, and now that he’s a senior I no longer need to provide EF support (he still misses assignments here and there). He also got into his first choice college (for engineering), and overall has been engaged with school and enjoys learning. I think if we had really pushed him to get A’s, it would’ve affected his mental health, and if he had avoided honors and AP classes, he would’ve been really bored.

I would love if you could share which engineering school. Really looking for one that is realistic with a lot of Bs!

Sure, it’s RIT. Also got into Rose Hulman and Clarkson. He did well on his SAT and AP tests, so I think that helped even though he had lots of B’s.

Thank you! RIT is on our list and also considering RH but we’re a little nervous about the location. Clarkson in NY?

Yes, Clarkson is in Potsdam in far upstate New York. We visited RH and liked it - it's very small with lots of support, but it's on a quarter system which concerned me a bit - I'm not sure if shorter semesters would be better or worse for a student with ADHD.