Do honors programs really make large schools feel smaller?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My kids (3) went through UMD Honors program. I know parents and schools make a big deal because it’s a good way to attract high performing kids but, in reality, it’s not. Intro classes are still large and crowded. It gets better eventually but not because you are in Honors program.

UMD Honors has smaller classes.

Which classes? I can't figure out how that works, when there are kids from all majors in honors.

There are about 1,000 freshmen in UMD honors. I attended a LAC with only about 500 freshmen, and they managed to offer classes in a range of majors.

This comparison isn’t at all apples to apples.

The LAC as an institution decided to only be 2000 undergrads, staffed accordingly and at the end of the day had fewer majors than a flagship state university.

The flagship isn’t hiring dedicated professors for just the 1000 honors kids (out of 25000 or so students), and those kids could each be studying for 100 different majors.

But the perception of exclusive membership is what they are trying to sell. And, as you can tell from this board, they sell it well.

I can't tell who you are using "they" to refer to. The flagship honors program or the LAC.

Anyone who tries to sell "honors program". Not comparing flagship honors vs the LAC. At the end of the day, Departmental Honors recognition is more important that the fact your kid was in an Honors program assuming your kids wants to continue post college (med schools, phd prgrams and whatnot

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids (3) went through UMD Honors program. I know parents and schools make a big deal because it’s a good way to attract high performing kids but, in reality, it’s not. Intro classes are still large and crowded. It gets better eventually but not because you are in Honors program.

UMD Honors has smaller classes.

Which classes? I can't figure out how that works, when there are kids from all majors in honors.

There are about 1,000 freshmen in UMD honors. I attended a LAC with only about 500 freshmen, and they managed to offer classes in a range of majors.

This comparison isn’t at all apples to apples.

The LAC as an institution decided to only be 2000 undergrads, staffed accordingly and at the end of the day had fewer majors than a flagship state university.

True. Universities aren’t offering separate honors version of all the 300 and 400 level courses that are restricted to majors, and they probably couldn’t offer a separate honors version of Comparative Lit 451. But those were never the huge lecture courses. The huge lectures are the 100 and 200 level courses that many students take as prerequisites and distribution requirements. Econ 101, Intro to Stats, Calc I, etc. Those are the courses that, at some schools, have separate honors classes or at least separate honors discussion sections.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids (3) went through UMD Honors program. I know parents and schools make a big deal because it’s a good way to attract high performing kids but, in reality, it’s not. Intro classes are still large and crowded. It gets better eventually but not because you are in Honors program.

UMD Honors has smaller classes.

Which classes? I can't figure out how that works, when there are kids from all majors in honors.

There are about 1,000 freshmen in UMD honors. I attended a LAC with only about 500 freshmen, and they managed to offer classes in a range of majors.

This comparison isn’t at all apples to apples.

The LAC as an institution decided to only be 2000 undergrads, staffed accordingly and at the end of the day had fewer majors than a flagship state university.

The flagship isn’t hiring dedicated professors for just the 1000 honors kids (out of 25000 or so students), and those kids could each be studying for 100 different majors.

NP. They sure do. My kid was in UMD Gemstone for a year. They had a couple of instructors that JUST taught Gemstone courses. Remainder of Gen ed/major courses were taken with everyone else.

[Anonymous]

Not sure if Honors College made a big school (JMU) feel smaller but our kid met people she never would have otherwise. Our student was in pretty small honors classes, and through their research for their capstone project, developed strong ties with professors.

[Anonymous]

Clemson''s Honors College was excellent. Two separate, brand-new dorms in a central location on campus (though most kids only stayed in them freshman year). Registering as a junior when you're an underclassman so you don't get shut out of classes. One honors seminar required every semester-- interesting classes taught by some of the university's best professors, with around 25 kids or less. Separate honors advising. An honors graduation ceremony (in addition to the regular large ceremony). It really was the best of both worlds there.

[Anonymous]

DD just got into University of Florida Honors and trying to understand how that works specifically. Anyone have experience with that?

[Anonymous]

Honors colleges are mostly there to make parents’ ego feel larger

[Anonymous]

If your kid is in an honors program, what percent of their classes were in the honors program, and were they major classes or distribution classes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is the best source-

https://publicuniversityhonors.com/

You don’t want to attend a small private college. They’re going by the wayside, every year colleges are closing. The elite small colleges have gotten so expensive since they no longer offer a competitive value proposition. State flagships are the future.

You failed to make a really important distinction. The low ranked small colleges that can’t offer much money and need based aid are having a problem. The selective small schools with large endowments like Haverford, Swarthmore, Univ Richmond, W&L, Davidson, Grinnell, Claremont McKenna, etc are thriving. For variety of reasons a lot of students really don’t want to go to a very large state flagship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is in an honors program, what percent of their classes were in the honors program, and were they major classes or distribution classes?

Inside honors already did the research for you.

https://publicuniversityhonors.com/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is in an honors program, what percent of their classes were in the honors program, and were they major classes or distribution classes?

Inside honors already did the research for you.

https://publicuniversityhonors.com/

I'm a fan of John Willingham and own three editions of his book. He hasn't seriously updated any of his research since the beginning of the pandemic, though, so his program descriptions and evaluations all are pretty dated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is in an honors program, what percent of their classes were in the honors program, and were they major classes or distribution classes?

Inside honors already did the research for you.

https://publicuniversityhonors.com/

I'm a fan of John Willingham and own three editions of his book. He hasn't seriously updated any of his research since the beginning of the pandemic, though, so his program descriptions and evaluations all are pretty dated.

It’s a good starting point and a better source than DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DS was Gemstone - Honors College at UMD. It is living and learning (which is nice), smaller H level classes, and then extra honors program activities/classes. Gemstone was a lot of extra work but really worth it in terms of preparation for med school/grad school. It seems like almost all of his cohort is in med school, grad school or both.

GMU has this - they live together. And have smaller classes and more contact with professors. It definitely creates a world within a world - so makes the campus feel smaller

[Anonymous]

I would say it depends on the school--you have to research carefully.

[Anonymous]

Penn state honors does feel smaller. Most honors kids are housed in 2 dorms. They have a lot of activities together. They have the option to take the honors version of many of the intro classes so class size is much smaller. The biggest benefit is most honors programs give the honors kids first dibs on class selection. My DD has made a lot of friends thru Schreyers honors college but also has other friend groups. She was planning on going to a smaller school, didn’t get in and can finally see that she has the best of both worlds- being at a state school with lots of energy and activities while also having a small cohort of “academic” kids.