Lottery season reminder: your kids don't need to hear about DCUM stuff

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is when the kids (mostly because of their parents) portray a school to be much worse than it actually is, causing the kids who will likely go to that school unnecessary anxiety. Reality is fine, exaggeration and rumor are not.

I agree that is a problem, but think it happens because parents avoid having direct conversations with their kids. Parents whisper about this stuff to each other and think their kids aren't listening or soaking it up, and kids will read tone, fill in the gaps, and exaggerate things they hear.

This is really critical for us because we live on the Hill, our kids attend a DCPS elementary, and our oldest will be in 4th next year. Which means figuring out what we are going to do about MS and HS, deciding if we will lottery for Latin and Basis (we almost certainly will), deciding what to do if we don't get in (likely stay as we are okay with Stuart-Hobson, our feeder), and what that means for our future (a big old question mark on HS). Gearing up to explain this to your kids in a way that makes sense, won't freak them out our create anxiety, but also won't result in them contributing to the anxiety of other kids/families who are in these are boat at their school, is genuinely daunting. But I know we do in fact have to discuss it with them and provide a narrative for all these choices that doesn't just crap all over schools that (1) many of their kids might wind up attending, or (2) schools they themselves might end up attending.

This is not easy and I would actually welcome advice on how to frame it. I think we know how we'd like to lay it out, but I have trepidation about it. We've already been through this once when we moved our kids from one elementary to another, and I think we handled it well, but yes we received a lot of questions about "is this school better than our old school?" and "what was wrong with our old school?" We talked about fit, after school programs, being able to walk to school and having friends from school who lived nearby, but always emphasized that we had a good experience at the old school and liked the teachers and the students. I feel like this time is harder though.

Your kid will hear all about the lottery at school, because you/they are in the same position as the rest of the class. They may already know more about it than you think -- my 3rd grader at a SH feeder already has very firm ideas (BASIS yay), as did/does my 5th grader (BASIS boo). You may be surprised.

I mean, my kids know about the lottery because they we lotteried into their current school, so that part they understand. But my 3rd grader definitely doesn't know anything about BASIS or Latin or the fact that some kids will peel off for these charters or will move or may go private starting in 4th/5th. I know, but she doesn't. Your 3rd grader likely knows about it because they have an older sibling who has been through it.

That's part of the challenge. Right now, my kids assume that everyone at their elementary school will go to the feeder middle school (something I know for a fact is not true -- some go, more than used to, but many will not). They have other friends in DC so they know some kids go to charters or to schools like SWS, and they ask us questions sometimes about whether they will ever go to school with those kids (probably not but there is some chance at some point). They just have no frame of reference. And for them, their priority is staying with their friends, something we actually have no control over since their friends families will make their own choices and won't necessarily share them with us. We've also already been through this -- one of the reasons we left our last school is because ever single year we were there, our kids made friends with kids who then left at the end of the year to either move away or lotteried into another school. Our kids no longer remember this experience with any precision, but I remember it and I know when there is an exodus at their current school after 4th, that's going to be more memorable to them than when their "best friends" in PK3, PK4, K and 1st departed for elsewhere. On the other hand maybe they have just acclimated and won't think it's strange? I don't know. My own K-12 experience was so, so different from any of this.

[Anonymous]

most public school kids are going to by middle school in a city with a lottery and choice know some stuff about school rankings and school reputations. impossible to avoid it. thing is the kids at the less popular schools often seem to me to be pretty happy. they really dont while attending the school have an inferiority complex.

[Anonymous]

But my 3rd grader definitely doesn't know anything about BASIS or Latin or the fact that some kids will peel off for these charters or will move or may go private starting in 4th/5th. I know, but she doesn't. Your 3rd grader likely knows about it because they have an older sibling who has been through it.

All is takes is having a friend who has an older sibling who has or is going through it. It doesn't have to be your child's own sibling. So, yes, by 3rd grade my kid understood that lots of kids left at the beginning of 5th grade because they had "won" the lottery. Kid knew that because best friend in school had a sibling in 5th grade who was unhappy because most of their friends had left for other schools. So younger sib was well aware of the process and, understandably, shared that knowledge with friends--even those who did not have older siblings.

It's not that the friend wanted to be "the source" or something. Friend just knew big sibling was miserable because she missed her friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:most public school kids are going to by middle school in a city with a lottery and choice know some stuff about school rankings and school reputations. impossible to avoid it. thing is the kids at the less popular schools often seem to me to be pretty happy. they really dont while attending the school have an inferiority complex.

The do get an inferiority complex when each year multiple students leave for other nearby schools (whether charter or DCPS). In early grades no, they don't get it. By 3rd or 4th, kids know what is going on and feel resentful. It sucks watching your friends leave. But also the parents are in a bind. If you stay, you might be the family whose kids lose their friends every year. If you leave, you are contributing to the problem. I have been on both sides of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

But my 3rd grader definitely doesn't know anything about BASIS or Latin or the fact that some kids will peel off for these charters or will move or may go private starting in 4th/5th. I know, but she doesn't. Your 3rd grader likely knows about it because they have an older sibling who has been through it.

All is takes is having a friend who has an older sibling who has or is going through it. It doesn't have to be your child's own sibling. So, yes, by 3rd grade my kid understood that lots of kids left at the beginning of 5th grade because they had "won" the lottery. Kid knew that because best friend in school had a sibling in 5th grade who was unhappy because most of their friends had left for other schools. So younger sib was well aware of the process and, understandably, shared that knowledge with friends--even those who did not have older siblings.

It's not that the friend wanted to be "the source" or something. Friend just knew big sibling was miserable because she missed her friends.

That's a specific situation though. Most kids who don't have older siblings won't get this passed through the grapevine. None of my kid's friends have siblings in 5th, and those with older siblings don't have negative experiences to share, that I can tell. The 3rd graders I know are blissfully unaware of the charter exodus after 4th. Which is good because 3rd grade is hard enough with adding a complication like that which is unlikely to make any sense to them.

[Anonymous]

Teens and maybe younger also read this board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But my 3rd grader definitely doesn't know anything about BASIS or Latin or the fact that some kids will peel off for these charters or will move or may go private starting in 4th/5th. I know, but she doesn't. Your 3rd grader likely knows about it because they have an older sibling who has been through it.

All is takes is having a friend who has an older sibling who has or is going through it. It doesn't have to be your child's own sibling. So, yes, by 3rd grade my kid understood that lots of kids left at the beginning of 5th grade because they had "won" the lottery. Kid knew that because best friend in school had a sibling in 5th grade who was unhappy because most of their friends had left for other schools. So younger sib was well aware of the process and, understandably, shared that knowledge with friends--even those who did not have older siblings.

It's not that the friend wanted to be "the source" or something. Friend just knew big sibling was miserable because she missed her friends.

That's a specific situation though. Most kids who don't have older siblings won't get this passed through the grapevine. None of my kid's friends have siblings in 5th, and those with older siblings don't have negative experiences to share, that I can tell. The 3rd graders I know are blissfully unaware of the charter exodus after 4th. Which is good because 3rd grade is hard enough with adding a complication like that which is unlikely to make any sense to them.

I find this very difficult to believe. My kids are also at a SH feeder (I will out myself for context and name the school, Ludlow) and the 50% more clued in half of the 3rd grade knows all about the lottery; by this time of year in 4th, it's 90%. But also... There's a real mixed bag in terms of kids' feelings about it. 5th grade is a really fun year at the school: making all of the sports teams (lots of 4th graders relegated to JV or even cut), big roles in the musical, Safety Patrol, 5th grade ski trip, Ford's theater performance, Embassy exchange program, traditional graduation/senior activities (boat cruise, etc). Yes, some kids are desperate to go to Latin or BASIS, but I'd guess at least as many kids who end up getting into one of those schools is really sad to be leaving. I do not have the sense that the 5th graders feel left behind. It obviously helps that a smaller percentage seem to leave each year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But my 3rd grader definitely doesn't know anything about BASIS or Latin or the fact that some kids will peel off for these charters or will move or may go private starting in 4th/5th. I know, but she doesn't. Your 3rd grader likely knows about it because they have an older sibling who has been through it.

All is takes is having a friend who has an older sibling who has or is going through it. It doesn't have to be your child's own sibling. So, yes, by 3rd grade my kid understood that lots of kids left at the beginning of 5th grade because they had "won" the lottery. Kid knew that because best friend in school had a sibling in 5th grade who was unhappy because most of their friends had left for other schools. So younger sib was well aware of the process and, understandably, shared that knowledge with friends--even those who did not have older siblings.

It's not that the friend wanted to be "the source" or something. Friend just knew big sibling was miserable because she missed her friends.

That's a specific situation though. Most kids who don't have older siblings won't get this passed through the grapevine. None of my kid's friends have siblings in 5th, and those with older siblings don't have negative experiences to share, that I can tell. The 3rd graders I know are blissfully unaware of the charter exodus after 4th. Which is good because 3rd grade is hard enough with adding a complication like that which is unlikely to make any sense to them.

I find this very difficult to believe. My kids are also at a SH feeder (I will out myself for context and name the school, Ludlow) and the 50% more clued in half of the 3rd grade knows all about the lottery; by this time of year in 4th, it's 90%. But also... There's a real mixed bag in terms of kids' feelings about it. 5th grade is a really fun year at the school: making all of the sports teams (lots of 4th graders relegated to JV or even cut), big roles in the musical, Safety Patrol, 5th grade ski trip, Ford's theater performance, Embassy exchange program, traditional graduation/senior activities (boat cruise, etc). Yes, some kids are desperate to go to Latin or BASIS, but I'd guess at least as many kids who end up getting into one of those schools is really sad to be leaving. I do not have the sense that the 5th graders feel left behind. It obviously helps that a smaller percentage seem to leave each year.

Another Ludlow parent and I've never heard a 3rd grader there say anything about BASIS or Latin. I'm sure some know because of siblings, but I've hosted many at my house and never heard it mentioned. Kids know about the lottery of course -- it seems like maybe 20-30% of the class are in by lottery, so that's easy to get. But I don't know any 3rd graders speaking with savvy about the Latin/BASIS lottery, and if I encountered one I'd be mildly annoyed with their parents for introducing that subject earlier than I feel is necessary. Nothing you can do of course, I just see no reason to make this something a 9 yr old is thinking about almost two years before it will matter to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But my 3rd grader definitely doesn't know anything about BASIS or Latin or the fact that some kids will peel off for these charters or will move or may go private starting in 4th/5th. I know, but she doesn't. Your 3rd grader likely knows about it because they have an older sibling who has been through it.

All is takes is having a friend who has an older sibling who has or is going through it. It doesn't have to be your child's own sibling. So, yes, by 3rd grade my kid understood that lots of kids left at the beginning of 5th grade because they had "won" the lottery. Kid knew that because best friend in school had a sibling in 5th grade who was unhappy because most of their friends had left for other schools. So younger sib was well aware of the process and, understandably, shared that knowledge with friends--even those who did not have older siblings.

It's not that the friend wanted to be "the source" or something. Friend just knew big sibling was miserable because she missed her friends.

That's a specific situation though. Most kids who don't have older siblings won't get this passed through the grapevine. None of my kid's friends have siblings in 5th, and those with older siblings don't have negative experiences to share, that I can tell. The 3rd graders I know are blissfully unaware of the charter exodus after 4th. Which is good because 3rd grade is hard enough with adding a complication like that which is unlikely to make any sense to them.

I find this very difficult to believe. My kids are also at a SH feeder (I will out myself for context and name the school, Ludlow) and the 50% more clued in half of the 3rd grade knows all about the lottery; by this time of year in 4th, it's 90%. But also... There's a real mixed bag in terms of kids' feelings about it. 5th grade is a really fun year at the school: making all of the sports teams (lots of 4th graders relegated to JV or even cut), big roles in the musical, Safety Patrol, 5th grade ski trip, Ford's theater performance, Embassy exchange program, traditional graduation/senior activities (boat cruise, etc). Yes, some kids are desperate to go to Latin or BASIS, but I'd guess at least as many kids who end up getting into one of those schools is really sad to be leaving. I do not have the sense that the 5th graders feel left behind. It obviously helps that a smaller percentage seem to leave each year.

Another Ludlow parent and I've never heard a 3rd grader there say anything about BASIS or Latin. I'm sure some know because of siblings, but I've hosted many at my house and never heard it mentioned. Kids know about the lottery of course -- it seems like maybe 20-30% of the class are in by lottery, so that's easy to get. But I don't know any 3rd graders speaking with savvy about the Latin/BASIS lottery, and if I encountered one I'd be mildly annoyed with their parents for introducing that subject earlier than I feel is necessary. Nothing you can do of course, I just see no reason to make this something a 9 yr old is thinking about almost two years before it will matter to them.

Why would a kid say anything about the lottery to you while on a playdate? That’s obviously not a good metric of whether the kids know about it/the 5th grade charters. My guess is that, if you actually asked them, they know a lot more than you think. They go to official step up days at SH starting in 4th grade (plus open houses for the charters), so the idea that this is all two years away is also wrong.

[Anonymous]

A lot of 3rd graders assume they will continue onto the feeder with all of their friends. Unless they have a sibling and then they think everyone else will do so without them. Its winter 4th grade when kids really learn about middle school options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lot of 3rd graders assume they will continue onto the feeder with all of their friends. Unless they have a sibling and then they think everyone else will do so without them. Its winter 4th grade when kids really learn about middle school options.

This. 3rd graders are not thinking about 5th grade lottery at all, unless their parents are talking it up or they have a sibling who lotteried into BASIS or Latin. Even kids with siblingsifht not know, if their sibling is at S-H. This would only confirm for them that "everybody" goes to the feeder.

I sincerely hope none of you are stressing 3rd graders out about this. Leave them alone! You will create a source of stress for which they don't really have context (they won't understand that the major reason families aim for charters is that Eastern isn't desirable, or why it's not desirable, or how application HSs work, and so on). Just let them be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem is when the kids (mostly because of their parents) portray a school to be much worse than it actually is, causing the kids who will likely go to that school unnecessary anxiety. Reality is fine, exaggeration and rumor are not.

+1 this! But we’ve also used that as an opportunity to talk about perceptions and racism—and now that my kid is at the MS and is happy there and getting a good education (and not commuting across town), they get to judge for themselves the quality of the school. The friends who insisted that kids shouldn’t go to this MS because it’s “bad” also get to see that my kid and their friends are largely happy and thriving there—and I wonder if they’ll ever question why their parents were so adamant about the school being bad.

This is great to hear. We do talk about it this way with our kids as well… and we also bring in elitism and classism along with racism. We talk about bias, how some parents get anxiety about schools and catastrophize, and basically just tell them they should give things a chance and make up their own minds instead of listening to rumors that actually aren’t based in reality. And we talk to families that actually have kids at the school. These conversations have come up quite a bit because we come from one of the “top” elementary schools where less than half freak out about the middle school, and then later in middle school, there is the freak out about high school, etc. Then I toured the schools myself and laughed at how ridiculous and exaggerated a lot of these perceptions and rumors are.

[Anonymous]

Maury parent here. Agree that it's by this time in fourth when absolutely everyone is talking about it. Going through this now. Just know that what the kids says/wants is not always the same as what the parent is planning.

[Anonymous]

Not that many get into Latin anymore, lots of people say no to Basis, and a lot of people who try the local middle school are pleasantly surprised and happy with the experience.

[Anonymous]

Your kids deserve to know that they are being neglected and need to fight the system that is granting privilege to others.