Way to set up new account to max out annual gifts

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:we set one up for each of our kids many years ago - as a joint account but kids as primary owners and me as secondary. each has about 320k right now. they all have good jobs. we have it with vanguard

This has the potential to raise gift tax issues of you care about that

I doubt it. This is probably an UTMA account. The contributions are irrevocable. The taxes due are income taxes, and if this PP has a tax preparer or even turbo tax, it’s probably been done right because Vanguard will send them all the forms. If they put in more than the limit each year they should have filled out an estate tax form but they wouldn’t owe anything.

PP would be the custodian until the kids reach 18 or 21 depending on the state. You can’t just hold or take out the money because you think the kids are irresponsible. But if you did, they would have to sue you to do anything about it. There’s no oversight unless someone complains.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I struggle with this idea. My kids are teens, so I haven't really put too much thought into this yet, but I worry that I would spoil them in adulthood by gifting them all this money. In one hand I would say if its a gift, then you give them a check and take the risk they blow it or it demotivates them in their career. I think my approach would be a matching system. They have a goal such as save for a house, pay down a debt, or build a nest egg, and I match up to the gift amount each year. That way there is incentive for them to make the best use of it.

Call me when you find a family where this worked well. I can think of one, and they’re all doctors. The parents and the kids. Highly motivated, high achieving, regimented, and inclined to authoritative systems.

Any family where someone actually needs an “incentive” to “make the best use,” it doesn’t work at all and strains relationships.

If you’re using money to try to control your adult children, you’re either forcing them to stay in “child” mode (which we’ve all seen among the adult children of rich people) or they will be seething on the inside or they will have to say “no thank you” and forge their own path. It’s worse for boys.

I’m often in “child mode” with my wealthy parents. It’s corrosive! I manage it okay I think, and I honestly think it helps that I’m a woman and am the caregiver type anyway. Plus clearly, I’m “paid” really well. It’s been harder for my brother. And for some of our cousins, it’s really bad.

Give the money or don’t give the money. Don’t try to use it as a carrot or a stick. It won’t work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I struggle with this idea. My kids are teens, so I haven't really put too much thought into this yet, but I worry that I would spoil them in adulthood by gifting them all this money. In one hand I would say if its a gift, then you give them a check and take the risk they blow it or it demotivates them in their career. I think my approach would be a matching system. They have a goal such as save for a house, pay down a debt, or build a nest egg, and I match up to the gift amount each year. That way there is incentive for them to make the best use of it.

Call me when you find a family where this worked well. I can think of one, and they’re all doctors. The parents and the kids. Highly motivated, high achieving, regimented, and inclined to authoritative systems.

Any family where someone actually needs an “incentive” to “make the best use,” it doesn’t work at all and strains relationships.

If you’re using money to try to control your adult children, you’re either forcing them to stay in “child” mode (which we’ve all seen among the adult children of rich people) or they will be seething on the inside or they will have to say “no thank you” and forge their own path. It’s worse for boys.

I’m often in “child mode” with my wealthy parents. It’s corrosive! I manage it okay I think, and I honestly think it helps that I’m a woman and am the caregiver type anyway. Plus clearly, I’m “paid” really well. It’s been harder for my brother. And for some of our cousins, it’s really bad.

Give the money or don’t give the money. Don’t try to use it as a carrot or a stick. It won’t work.

Thats why I say its tied to a goal they have, not one that I have. If they have no goals then there is no discussion about it.

But I also think if I gave all my kids $20k per year each no strings attached and they disrespected me, there would be more relationship strain there, dont you think? So it seems better to just not gift anything at all and just let the money flow when I die?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks, all. This is OP. This was very useful. We will set it up in kid’s name only and tell of its existence but talk about benefits of not touching it and letting it grow until it’s needed for something bigger. That was useful information about how a joint account could run into tax issues so we won’t do it that way.

I would either give the money for the kid to use as he wants, or hold back until he is more established. The in-between situation can be risky. A relative's young adult child developed a drug addiction after college and it was worsened by her having access to a large amount of money that had been gifted to her and held for later. Once it is in your kid's name you can't get it back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I struggle with this idea. My kids are teens, so I haven't really put too much thought into this yet, but I worry that I would spoil them in adulthood by gifting them all this money. In one hand I would say if its a gift, then you give them a check and take the risk they blow it or it demotivates them in their career. I think my approach would be a matching system. They have a goal such as save for a house, pay down a debt, or build a nest egg, and I match up to the gift amount each year. That way there is incentive for them to make the best use of it.

Call me when you find a family where this worked well. I can think of one, and they’re all doctors. The parents and the kids. Highly motivated, high achieving, regimented, and inclined to authoritative systems.

Any family where someone actually needs an “incentive” to “make the best use,” it doesn’t work at all and strains relationships.

If you’re using money to try to control your adult children, you’re either forcing them to stay in “child” mode (which we’ve all seen among the adult children of rich people) or they will be seething on the inside or they will have to say “no thank you” and forge their own path. It’s worse for boys.

I’m often in “child mode” with my wealthy parents. It’s corrosive! I manage it okay I think, and I honestly think it helps that I’m a woman and am the caregiver type anyway. Plus clearly, I’m “paid” really well. It’s been harder for my brother. And for some of our cousins, it’s really bad.

Give the money or don’t give the money. Don’t try to use it as a carrot or a stick. It won’t work.

Thats why I say its tied to a goal they have, not one that I have. If they have no goals then there is no discussion about it.

But I also think if I gave all my kids $20k per year each no strings attached and they disrespected me, there would be more relationship strain there, dont you think? So it seems better to just not gift anything at all and just let the money flow when I die?

If the "gift" is predicated on respect, or not being "disrespected" according to whatever you think that encompasses, that's behavioral extortion. Keep your money.

[Anonymous]

Every adult child is different. My brother freely asked for money which my parents gave for a house purchase. However for me, it was important to me that they knew I could buy the house we bought without their help. Just some pride issue of mine, I guess. So I accepted the money after closing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I struggle with this idea. My kids are teens, so I haven't really put too much thought into this yet, but I worry that I would spoil them in adulthood by gifting them all this money. In one hand I would say if its a gift, then you give them a check and take the risk they blow it or it demotivates them in their career. I think my approach would be a matching system. They have a goal such as save for a house, pay down a debt, or build a nest egg, and I match up to the gift amount each year. That way there is incentive for them to make the best use of it.

Call me when you find a family where this worked well. I can think of one, and they’re all doctors. The parents and the kids. Highly motivated, high achieving, regimented, and inclined to authoritative systems.

Any family where someone actually needs an “incentive” to “make the best use,” it doesn’t work at all and strains relationships.

If you’re using money to try to control your adult children, you’re either forcing them to stay in “child” mode (which we’ve all seen among the adult children of rich people) or they will be seething on the inside or they will have to say “no thank you” and forge their own path. It’s worse for boys.

I’m often in “child mode” with my wealthy parents. It’s corrosive! I manage it okay I think, and I honestly think it helps that I’m a woman and am the caregiver type anyway. Plus clearly, I’m “paid” really well. It’s been harder for my brother. And for some of our cousins, it’s really bad.

Give the money or don’t give the money. Don’t try to use it as a carrot or a stick. It won’t work.

Thats why I say its tied to a goal they have, not one that I have. If they have no goals then there is no discussion about it.

But I also think if I gave all my kids $20k per year each no strings attached and they disrespected me, there would be more relationship strain there, dont you think? So it seems better to just not gift anything at all and just let the money flow when I die?

If the "gift" is predicated on respect, or not being "disrespected" according to whatever you think that encompasses, that's behavioral extortion. Keep your money.

It's a gift in the legal sense. The point i was making is relationship strain is inevitable whether a monetary gift has a purpose (to achieve a financial goal) or whether its just to share wealth. There is no way you are going to not resent someone who doesnt show appreciation for something you give them.

Or are you capable of giving with zero emotions attached? Honest question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks, all. This is OP. This was very useful. We will set it up in kid’s name only and tell of its existence but talk about benefits of not touching it and letting it grow until it’s needed for something bigger. That was useful information about how a joint account could run into tax issues so we won’t do it that way.

I would either give the money for the kid to use as he wants, or hold back until he is more established. The in-between situation can be risky. A relative's young adult child developed a drug addiction after college and it was worsened by her having access to a large amount of money that had been gifted to her and held for later. Once it is in your kid's name you can't get it back.

This. What is the point of setting up an account in their name if you don't want them to use it yet? If you are managing it, they aren't really learning to manage their money, and in fact if they know they have this money to fall back on, they may be more cavalier about managing their own income.

If you want to help them buy a house one day, just save for it yourself and when the time comes, tell them of your gift then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks, all. This is OP. This was very useful. We will set it up in kid’s name only and tell of its existence but talk about benefits of not touching it and letting it grow until it’s needed for something bigger. That was useful information about how a joint account could run into tax issues so we won’t do it that way.

I would either give the money for the kid to use as he wants, or hold back until he is more established. The in-between situation can be risky. A relative's young adult child developed a drug addiction after college and it was worsened by her having access to a large amount of money that had been gifted to her and held for later. Once it is in your kid's name you can't get it back.

This. What is the point of setting up an account in their name if you don't want them to use it yet? If you are managing it, they aren't really learning to manage their money, and in fact if they know they have this money to fall back on, they may be more cavalier about managing their own income.

If you want to help them buy a house one day, just save for it yourself and when the time comes, tell them of your gift then.

Google AI came to the consensus that giving regular gifts can create a sense of entitlement and that they should be specific and irregular. I like that answer.

[Anonymous]

^ I like that. Keep them guessing!

[Anonymous]

For DC's house purchase, we waited until they talked of looking. We then mentioned a gift and roughly the amount. The decisions they made would not have been the decisions I would have made re: timing, location, downpayment. But that's ok.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I struggle with this idea. My kids are teens, so I haven't really put too much thought into this yet, but I worry that I would spoil them in adulthood by gifting them all this money. In one hand I would say if its a gift, then you give them a check and take the risk they blow it or it demotivates them in their career. I think my approach would be a matching system. They have a goal such as save for a house, pay down a debt, or build a nest egg, and I match up to the gift amount each year. That way there is incentive for them to make the best use of it.

Call me when you find a family where this worked well. I can think of one, and they’re all doctors. The parents and the kids. Highly motivated, high achieving, regimented, and inclined to authoritative systems.

Any family where someone actually needs an “incentive” to “make the best use,” it doesn’t work at all and strains relationships.

If you’re using money to try to control your adult children, you’re either forcing them to stay in “child” mode (which we’ve all seen among the adult children of rich people) or they will be seething on the inside or they will have to say “no thank you” and forge their own path. It’s worse for boys.

I’m often in “child mode” with my wealthy parents. It’s corrosive! I manage it okay I think, and I honestly think it helps that I’m a woman and am the caregiver type anyway. Plus clearly, I’m “paid” really well. It’s been harder for my brother. And for some of our cousins, it’s really bad.

Give the money or don’t give the money. Don’t try to use it as a carrot or a stick. It won’t work.

Thats why I say its tied to a goal they have, not one that I have. If they have no goals then there is no discussion about it.

But I also think if I gave all my kids $20k per year each no strings attached and they disrespected me, there would be more relationship strain there, dont you think? So it seems better to just not gift anything at all and just let the money flow when I die?

If the "gift" is predicated on respect, or not being "disrespected" according to whatever you think that encompasses, that's behavioral extortion. Keep your money.

It's a gift in the legal sense. The point i was making is relationship strain is inevitable whether a monetary gift has a purpose (to achieve a financial goal) or whether its just to share wealth. There is no way you are going to not resent someone who doesnt show appreciation for something you give them.

Or are you capable of giving with zero emotions attached? Honest question.

DP: I do not attach emotion to gifts, least of all money to my own kids. Maybe I would have emotion about something sentimental or home made, etc. but then the emotion is in the act of creation and the sadness would just be that the sentiment isn't shared (still no big deal though). I think this really depends on your own relationship to money. I grew up in a community where no one had a lot, but some had more than others. Everyone helped people in need without a thought. My family was helped when we had great need, and every one of us gives back freely as a reflex action. We neither want nor expect anything in return. Once given, it's not mine to spend any time or energy thinking about anymore (and yes, several of us did end up working in philanthropy).

[Anonymous]

To encourage long term savings, we agreed to match our kids' Roth contributions. The savvy kid maxed the Roth contribution, so our match went into his regular account. The other saves less and so gets less and has less. Life lesson.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I struggle with this idea. My kids are teens, so I haven't really put too much thought into this yet, but I worry that I would spoil them in adulthood by gifting them all this money. In one hand I would say if its a gift, then you give them a check and take the risk they blow it or it demotivates them in their career. I think my approach would be a matching system. They have a goal such as save for a house, pay down a debt, or build a nest egg, and I match up to the gift amount each year. That way there is incentive for them to make the best use of it.

Call me when you find a family where this worked well. I can think of one, and they’re all doctors. The parents and the kids. Highly motivated, high achieving, regimented, and inclined to authoritative systems.

Any family where someone actually needs an “incentive” to “make the best use,” it doesn’t work at all and strains relationships.

If you’re using money to try to control your adult children, you’re either forcing them to stay in “child” mode (which we’ve all seen among the adult children of rich people) or they will be seething on the inside or they will have to say “no thank you” and forge their own path. It’s worse for boys.

I’m often in “child mode” with my wealthy parents. It’s corrosive! I manage it okay I think, and I honestly think it helps that I’m a woman and am the caregiver type anyway. Plus clearly, I’m “paid” really well. It’s been harder for my brother. And for some of our cousins, it’s really bad.

Give the money or don’t give the money. Don’t try to use it as a carrot or a stick. It won’t work.

Thats why I say its tied to a goal they have, not one that I have. If they have no goals then there is no discussion about it.

But I also think if I gave all my kids $20k per year each no strings attached and they disrespected me, there would be more relationship strain there, dont you think? So it seems better to just not gift anything at all and just let the money flow when I die?

Yes, I think it’s better for your case to not give them money and just work on your relationship with them as adults. I think it sounds like it’s already kind of dysfunctional. You’re their mom, you shouldn’t be buying respect for $20k a year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks, all. This is OP. This was very useful. We will set it up in kid’s name only and tell of its existence but talk about benefits of not touching it and letting it grow until it’s needed for something bigger. That was useful information about how a joint account could run into tax issues so we won’t do it that way.

I would either give the money for the kid to use as he wants, or hold back until he is more established. The in-between situation can be risky. A relative's young adult child developed a drug addiction after college and it was worsened by her having access to a large amount of money that had been gifted to her and held for later. Once it is in your kid's name you can't get it back.

This. What is the point of setting up an account in their name if you don't want them to use it yet? If you are managing it, they aren't really learning to manage their money, and in fact if they know they have this money to fall back on, they may be more cavalier about managing their own income.

If you want to help them buy a house one day, just save for it yourself and when the time comes, tell them of your gift then.

Google AI came to the consensus that giving regular gifts can create a sense of entitlement and that they should be specific and irregular. I like that answer.

I dunno, it’s because of my parents planned and regular giving that I took a big swing on starting a business. It worked out, and I made way more money than I would have otherwise. But without the gifts, I would still be grinding for a salary. Which is fine. The business could also have failed spectacularly and I would have needed to use their money to keep my family on its feet.

I just don’t think any of this can be controlled by the giver, whether they are alive or dead. Give it or don’t give it, but you’re not in charge of the outcomes.