Question for lawyers - Do you charge clients for your mistakes

[Anonymous]

Client is saying that lawyer should have checked the address before serving.

It sounds like client gave his lawyer an address that was correct at the time that client gave it. The address changed about six months before service, which client flagged for lawyer (either before or after service on the old address). Lawyer served at the old address. Lawyer did not confirm the address given by client through investigation, which client feels lawyer should have done rather than simply rely on client's information.

Every professional or service provider makes errors, big and small. Lawyer should avoid charging for mistake due primarily to lack of attention or lack of diligence. There are situations where it makes sense to rely on client rather than spend client resources on investigation and there are situations where it does not. This situation could go either way. If the lawyer fully investigated the defendant well in advance when the defendant was at the old address, not checking the address again before serving months later is on the line.

Client should not pay for complaint not attached.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My understanding is OP is saying the defendant is a business who changed their legal address six months before the suit was filed. OP provided the updated, correct address to the attorney, but the attorney went off the Secretary of State listing, which had not yet been updated, and therefore delivered it to the wrong address. Then, they served it again but without the complaint so OP had to pay for another hearing. So the second mistake was totally the firm's fault and the first is borderline (reasonable to go off Secretary of State address but if they paid attention to detail they might have noticed the client gave a different address and inquired).

I provided the attorney with the correct address, the address for the defendant with the Secretary of State had the correct address. The firm was using the defendant's outdated address that the firm had in their system.

[Anonymous]

It's not a big deal, but if they do charge you (they may write it off themselves), you can dispute the charge and negotiate a cut. Happens all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My understanding is OP is saying the defendant is a business who changed their legal address six months before the suit was filed. OP provided the updated, correct address to the attorney, but the attorney went off the Secretary of State listing, which had not yet been updated, and therefore delivered it to the wrong address. Then, they served it again but without the complaint so OP had to pay for another hearing. So the second mistake was totally the firm's fault and the first is borderline (reasonable to go off Secretary of State address but if they paid attention to detail they might have noticed the client gave a different address and inquired).

I provided the attorney with the correct address, the address for the defendant with the Secretary of State had the correct address. The firm was using the defendant's outdated address that the firm had in their system.

Oh thats definitely BS!

[Anonymous]

OP here. In addition to paying for legal fees that were preventable, my concern is that the lawsuit has just started and there's already been two errors made.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. In addition to paying for legal fees that were preventable, my concern is that the lawsuit has just started and there's already been two errors made.

Valid concern, OP. Go with your instinct. Lawsuits are stressful. You shouldn’t have to second guess your lawyer at every turn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My understanding is OP is saying the defendant is a business who changed their legal address six months before the suit was filed. OP provided the updated, correct address to the attorney, but the attorney went off the Secretary of State listing, which had not yet been updated, and therefore delivered it to the wrong address. Then, they served it again but without the complaint so OP had to pay for another hearing. So the second mistake was totally the firm's fault and the first is borderline (reasonable to go off Secretary of State address but if they paid attention to detail they might have noticed the client gave a different address and inquired).

I provided the attorney with the correct address, the address for the defendant with the Secretary of State had the correct address. The firm was using the defendant's outdated address that the firm had in their system.

Had do you know that the address had been updated with the Secretary of State's office ? Did you check prior to giving the attorney the address ?

Failure to include a copy of the Complaint (the lawsuit) might be the fault of the process server or, more likely, the Defendant was being untruthful about the lack of the Complaint in an attempt to get the case dismissed.

Any reputable process server would be aware that the Complaint was missing & would contact the attorney who had hired the process server.

My gut feeling is that the OP is mistaken.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My understanding is OP is saying the defendant is a business who changed their legal address six months before the suit was filed. OP provided the updated, correct address to the attorney, but the attorney went off the Secretary of State listing, which had not yet been updated, and therefore delivered it to the wrong address. Then, they served it again but without the complaint so OP had to pay for another hearing. So the second mistake was totally the firm's fault and the first is borderline (reasonable to go off Secretary of State address but if they paid attention to detail they might have noticed the client gave a different address and inquired).

I provided the attorney with the correct address, the address for the defendant with the Secretary of State had the correct address. The firm was using the defendant's outdated address that the firm had in their system.

Had do you know that the address had been updated with the Secretary of State's office ? Did you check prior to giving the attorney the address ?

Failure to include a copy of the Complaint (the lawsuit) might be the fault of the process server or, more likely, the Defendant was being untruthful about the lack of the Complaint in an attempt to get the case dismissed.

Any reputable process server would be aware that the Complaint was missing & would contact the attorney who had hired the process server.

My gut feeling is that the OP is mistaken.

I am a lawyer and I am currently represented by a lawyer. There are a lot of really, really bad lawyers who screw up all the time. This is extremely plausible to me. I had to fire my first lawyer and could easily get him sanctioned if I wanted to put in the effort.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My understanding is OP is saying the defendant is a business who changed their legal address six months before the suit was filed. OP provided the updated, correct address to the attorney, but the attorney went off the Secretary of State listing, which had not yet been updated, and therefore delivered it to the wrong address. Then, they served it again but without the complaint so OP had to pay for another hearing. So the second mistake was totally the firm's fault and the first is borderline (reasonable to go off Secretary of State address but if they paid attention to detail they might have noticed the client gave a different address and inquired).

I provided the attorney with the correct address, the address for the defendant with the Secretary of State had the correct address. The firm was using the defendant's outdated address that the firm had in their system.

Had do you know that the address had been updated with the Secretary of State's office ? Did you check prior to giving the attorney the address ?

Failure to include a copy of the Complaint (the lawsuit) might be the fault of the process server or, more likely, the Defendant was being untruthful about the lack of the Complaint in an attempt to get the case dismissed.

Any reputable process server would be aware that the Complaint was missing & would contact the attorney who had hired the process server.

My gut feeling is that the OP is mistaken.

I am a lawyer and I am currently represented by a lawyer. There are a lot of really, really bad lawyers who screw up all the time. This is extremely plausible to me. I had to fire my first lawyer and could easily get him sanctioned if I wanted to put in the effort.

You may be an attorney, but I doubt that you do litigation / trial work.

The opposing party, the Defendant, filed a challenge to the sufficiency of the service of process and appeared in court for a hearing. In notice pleading jurisdictions (the majority of jurisdictions including federal court) simple notice of a lawsuit is enough. Obviously, Defendant received such notice or Defendant would not have filed a challenge based on insufficient service of process.

Furthermore, the process server typically is required to file a sworn affidavit with the court as to service of process. Often the process server is a deputy sheriff or a professional process server with an established reputation. The judge believed and ruled that the service was sufficient under the law of the relevant jurisdiction. If the Defendant wants to appeal the ruling by the Trial Court Judge or by, if in federal court, the Magistrate Judge,then the Defendant may do so.

[Anonymous]

OP: How much, in specific dollar terms, do you want to deduct from the legal bill given to you by your lawyer ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My understanding is OP is saying the defendant is a business who changed their legal address six months before the suit was filed. OP provided the updated, correct address to the attorney, but the attorney went off the Secretary of State listing, which had not yet been updated, and therefore delivered it to the wrong address. Then, they served it again but without the complaint so OP had to pay for another hearing. So the second mistake was totally the firm's fault and the first is borderline (reasonable to go off Secretary of State address but if they paid attention to detail they might have noticed the client gave a different address and inquired).

I provided the attorney with the correct address, the address for the defendant with the Secretary of State had the correct address. The firm was using the defendant's outdated address that the firm had in their system.

Had do you know that the address had been updated with the Secretary of State's office ? Did you check prior to giving the attorney the address ?

Failure to include a copy of the Complaint (the lawsuit) might be the fault of the process server or, more likely, the Defendant was being untruthful about the lack of the Complaint in an attempt to get the case dismissed.

Any reputable process server would be aware that the Complaint was missing & would contact the attorney who had hired the process server.

My gut feeling is that the OP is mistaken.

I am a lawyer and I am currently represented by a lawyer. There are a lot of really, really bad lawyers who screw up all the time. This is extremely plausible to me. I had to fire my first lawyer and could easily get him sanctioned if I wanted to put in the effort.

Really ? I doubt that you are an experienced lawyer. Also, if you are a lawyer, why do you need a lawyer ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My understanding is OP is saying the defendant is a business who changed their legal address six months before the suit was filed. OP provided the updated, correct address to the attorney, but the attorney went off the Secretary of State listing, which had not yet been updated, and therefore delivered it to the wrong address. Then, they served it again but without the complaint so OP had to pay for another hearing. So the second mistake was totally the firm's fault and the first is borderline (reasonable to go off Secretary of State address but if they paid attention to detail they might have noticed the client gave a different address and inquired).

I provided the attorney with the correct address, the address for the defendant with the Secretary of State had the correct address. The firm was using the defendant's outdated address that the firm had in their system.

Had do you know that the address had been updated with the Secretary of State's office ? Did you check prior to giving the attorney the address ?

Failure to include a copy of the Complaint (the lawsuit) might be the fault of the process server or, more likely, the Defendant was being untruthful about the lack of the Complaint in an attempt to get the case dismissed.

Any reputable process server would be aware that the Complaint was missing & would contact the attorney who had hired the process server.

My gut feeling is that the OP is mistaken.

I am a lawyer and I am currently represented by a lawyer. There are a lot of really, really bad lawyers who screw up all the time. This is extremely plausible to me. I had to fire my first lawyer and could easily get him sanctioned if I wanted to put in the effort.

You may be an attorney, but I doubt that you do litigation / trial work.

The opposing party, the Defendant, filed a challenge to the sufficiency of the service of process and appeared in court for a hearing. In notice pleading jurisdictions (the majority of jurisdictions including federal court) simple notice of a lawsuit is enough. Obviously, Defendant received such notice or Defendant would not have filed a challenge based on insufficient service of process.

Furthermore, the process server typically is required to file a sworn affidavit with the court as to service of process. Often the process server is a deputy sheriff or a professional process server with an established reputation. The judge believed and ruled that the service was sufficient under the law of the relevant jurisdiction. If the Defendant wants to appeal the ruling by the Trial Court Judge or by, if in federal court, the Magistrate Judge,then the Defendant may do so.

I'm exclusively a litigator. I've never done transactional or advisory work in my life.

The client should not be paying for an obvious error. If OP is misstating the facts, that's one thing. But accepting what OP is describing as true, they shouldn't pay.

As an aside, federal court isn't notice pleading anymore? See Twiqbal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My understanding is OP is saying the defendant is a business who changed their legal address six months before the suit was filed. OP provided the updated, correct address to the attorney, but the attorney went off the Secretary of State listing, which had not yet been updated, and therefore delivered it to the wrong address. Then, they served it again but without the complaint so OP had to pay for another hearing. So the second mistake was totally the firm's fault and the first is borderline (reasonable to go off Secretary of State address but if they paid attention to detail they might have noticed the client gave a different address and inquired).

I provided the attorney with the correct address, the address for the defendant with the Secretary of State had the correct address. The firm was using the defendant's outdated address that the firm had in their system.

Had do you know that the address had been updated with the Secretary of State's office ? Did you check prior to giving the attorney the address ?

Failure to include a copy of the Complaint (the lawsuit) might be the fault of the process server or, more likely, the Defendant was being untruthful about the lack of the Complaint in an attempt to get the case dismissed.

Any reputable process server would be aware that the Complaint was missing & would contact the attorney who had hired the process server.

My gut feeling is that the OP is mistaken.

I am a lawyer and I am currently represented by a lawyer. There are a lot of really, really bad lawyers who screw up all the time. This is extremely plausible to me. I had to fire my first lawyer and could easily get him sanctioned if I wanted to put in the effort.

Really ? I doubt that you are an experienced lawyer. Also, if you are a lawyer, why do you need a lawyer ?

I'm not a real estate attorney, I'm not licensed in the relevant state, I don't practice state law, and it looks horrible to be pro se.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your writing is unclear.

What is the issue with the address? Why did they go to the wrong address at first? Did you give the wrong address? if so, that's on you.

Not attaching the complaint was their mistake. I would recommend you strike associated costs from the bill.

I gave them the correct address. The defendant had a change of address about six months before the lawsuit was filed. I flagged the change of address to the attorney and paralegal.

This still doesn't make any sense. You claim you gave them the correct address, but then suggest that they relied on the address you gave them (as opposed to looking it up with the Secretary of State) and service was made at the wrong address. Which is it?

[Anonymous]

Assuming that the OP has accurately communicated what transpired, the OP's lawyer may have been trying a sleazy trick to get a default judgment for OP hoping that the Defendant would not respond to a simple service of process without an attached complaint.