Does applying for Financial Aid hurt chances of Admission at Visitation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do those financial aid numbers include tuition remission for faculty and staff? That may be where the bulk of that money is going.

+1 the FA budget for random applicants is certainly much smaller than the full FA budget. The FA office may prioritize faculty and staff, current families, families with siblings attending, alumni, and who so on.

Financial Aid is an enrollment management tool. The belief is that a class with only full pay kids would be a disaster.

Since all families pay something they want to make sure they have a full class. Just like the airlines, it’s better to discount fares and fill the plane than it is to take off with empty seats.

It’s also true that some applicants that need FA offer the school something’s that the next candidate on the list of Full Pay applicants does not. That might be academic aptitude, athletic skill, legacy status, etc., etc.

The idea that there are an almost unlimited numbers of qualified applicants with the ability to pay tuition is just not true. Many of these kids have academic or social problems that the school doesn’t want to sign up for four years.

This is false. The idea that a class with only full pay kids would be a disaster, is absolutely false. This is inflammatory and just plain wrong.

Go troll somewhere else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do those financial aid numbers include tuition remission for faculty and staff? That may be where the bulk of that money is going.

+1 the FA budget for random applicants is certainly much smaller than the full FA budget. The FA office may prioritize faculty and staff, current families, families with siblings attending, alumni, and who so on.

Financial Aid is an enrollment management tool. The belief is that a class with only full pay kids would be a disaster.

Since all families pay something they want to make sure they have a full class. Just like the airlines, it’s better to discount fares and fill the plane than it is to take off with empty seats.

It’s also true that some applicants that need FA offer the school something’s that the next candidate on the list of Full Pay applicants does not. That might be academic aptitude, athletic skill, legacy status, etc., etc.

The idea that there are an almost unlimited numbers of qualified applicants with the ability to pay tuition is just not true. Many of these kids have academic or social problems that the school doesn’t want to sign up for four years.

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do those financial aid numbers include tuition remission for faculty and staff? That may be where the bulk of that money is going.

+1 the FA budget for random applicants is certainly much smaller than the full FA budget. The FA office may prioritize faculty and staff, current families, families with siblings attending, alumni, and who so on.

Financial Aid is an enrollment management tool. The belief is that a class with only full pay kids would be a disaster.

Since all families pay something they want to make sure they have a full class. Just like the airlines, it’s better to discount fares and fill the plane than it is to take off with empty seats.

It’s also true that some applicants that need FA offer the school something’s that the next candidate on the list of Full Pay applicants does not. That might be academic aptitude, athletic skill, legacy status, etc., etc.

The idea that there are an almost unlimited numbers of qualified applicants with the ability to pay tuition is just not true. Many of these kids have academic or social problems that the school doesn’t want to sign up for four years.

The competitive DMV privates could easily fill up their classes with zero financial aid, however the optics are not worth it. Financial aid is just as much a marketing/PR tool as anything else.

The last poster doesn’t understand how any of this works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do those financial aid numbers include tuition remission for faculty and staff? That may be where the bulk of that money is going.

+1 the FA budget for random applicants is certainly much smaller than the full FA budget. The FA office may prioritize faculty and staff, current families, families with siblings attending, alumni, and who so on.

Financial Aid is an enrollment management tool. The belief is that a class with only full pay kids would be a disaster.

Since all families pay something they want to make sure they have a full class. Just like the airlines, it’s better to discount fares and fill the plane than it is to take off with empty seats.

It’s also true that some applicants that need FA offer the school something’s that the next candidate on the list of Full Pay applicants does not. That might be academic aptitude, athletic skill, legacy status, etc., etc.

The idea that there are an almost unlimited numbers of qualified applicants with the ability to pay tuition is just not true. Many of these kids have academic or social problems that the school doesn’t want to sign up for four years.

The competitive DMV privates could easily fill up their classes with zero financial aid, however the optics are not worth it. Financial aid is just as much a marketing/PR tool as anything else.

The last poster doesn’t understand how any of this works.

Where are you getting this from? What you don't grasp is the fall off in the "quality" of the Full Pay kids after 75% of these classes are filled. The FA kids are bringing something to the party that these additional full pay kids do not. And the schools are willing to give up tuition dollars to bring these kids in.

You want to explain this away as "optics" and marketing fluff. It's not. What it really is is schools that know what they need in a class to satisfy all the various constituencies on campus. The long-term existence of the FA programs in the face of the school's need for and love of money is pretty clear proof that you are wrong. ($3 million for "optics" at Visitation is a pretty steep price, don't you think?)

There just isn't this reservoir of full pay, academically qualified, athletically-talented, well-behaved kids you apparently believe there is. I have watched Admissions of classes at one of the Top 10 schools for decades. I have seen them not admit full pay kids for a variety of reasons and I have watched FA make significant contributions the school environment and go on to significantly outperform their Full Pay classmates after graduations. I've noticed that rich families seem to have a lot of dumb, and/or entitled and and/or poorly behaved kids that these schools would prefer not to have.

You are right about one thing. One of us doesn't know how this works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do those financial aid numbers include tuition remission for faculty and staff? That may be where the bulk of that money is going.

+1 the FA budget for random applicants is certainly much smaller than the full FA budget. The FA office may prioritize faculty and staff, current families, families with siblings attending, alumni, and who so on.

Financial Aid is an enrollment management tool. The belief is that a class with only full pay kids would be a disaster.

Since all families pay something they want to make sure they have a full class. Just like the airlines, it’s better to discount fares and fill the plane than it is to take off with empty seats.

It’s also true that some applicants that need FA offer the school something’s that the next candidate on the list of Full Pay applicants does not. That might be academic aptitude, athletic skill, legacy status, etc., etc.

The idea that there are an almost unlimited numbers of qualified applicants with the ability to pay tuition is just not true. Many of these kids have academic or social problems that the school doesn’t want to sign up for four years.

The competitive DMV privates could easily fill up their classes with zero financial aid, however the optics are not worth it. Financial aid is just as much a marketing/PR tool as anything else.

The last poster doesn’t understand how any of this works.

Where are you getting this from? What you don't grasp is the fall off in the "quality" of the Full Pay kids after 75% of these classes are filled. The FA kids are bringing something to the party that these additional full pay kids do not. And the schools are willing to give up tuition dollars to bring these kids in.

You want to explain this away as "optics" and marketing fluff. It's not. What it really is is schools that know what they need in a class to satisfy all the various constituencies on campus. The long-term existence of the FA programs in the face of the school's need for and love of money is pretty clear proof that you are wrong. ($3 million for "optics" at Visitation is a pretty steep price, don't you think?)

There just isn't this reservoir of full pay, academically qualified, athletically-talented, well-behaved kids you apparently believe there is. I have watched Admissions of classes at one of the Top 10 schools for decades. I have seen them not admit full pay kids for a variety of reasons and I have watched FA make significant contributions the school environment and go on to significantly outperform their Full Pay classmates after graduations. I've noticed that rich families seem to have a lot of dumb, and/or entitled and and/or poorly behaved kids that these schools would prefer not to have.

You are right about one thing. One of us doesn't know how this works.

You are completely delusional if you believe this. Wowsers.

The full pay kids would be just fine on their own.

[Anonymous]

We should not teach the good poor kids to suck the butts if rich entitled punks

[Anonymous]

The main benefits of FA are that it makes the school appear less elitist and provides socioeconomic diversity. These two points are used in marketing/PR to attract more full pay applicants. It is ultimately about the full pay students at the school, to their benefit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do those financial aid numbers include tuition remission for faculty and staff? That may be where the bulk of that money is going.

+1 the FA budget for random applicants is certainly much smaller than the full FA budget. The FA office may prioritize faculty and staff, current families, families with siblings attending, alumni, and who so on.

Financial Aid is an enrollment management tool. The belief is that a class with only full pay kids would be a disaster.

Since all families pay something they want to make sure they have a full class. Just like the airlines, it’s better to discount fares and fill the plane than it is to take off with empty seats.

It’s also true that some applicants that need FA offer the school something’s that the next candidate on the list of Full Pay applicants does not. That might be academic aptitude, athletic skill, legacy status, etc., etc.

The idea that there are an almost unlimited numbers of qualified applicants with the ability to pay tuition is just not true. Many of these kids have academic or social problems that the school doesn’t want to sign up for four years.

The competitive DMV privates could easily fill up their classes with zero financial aid, however the optics are not worth it. Financial aid is just as much a marketing/PR tool as anything else.

The last poster doesn’t understand how any of this works.

Where are you getting this from? What you don't grasp is the fall off in the "quality" of the Full Pay kids after 75% of these classes are filled. The FA kids are bringing something to the party that these additional full pay kids do not. And the schools are willing to give up tuition dollars to bring these kids in.

You want to explain this away as "optics" and marketing fluff. It's not. What it really is is schools that know what they need in a class to satisfy all the various constituencies on campus. The long-term existence of the FA programs in the face of the school's need for and love of money is pretty clear proof that you are wrong. ($3 million for "optics" at Visitation is a pretty steep price, don't you think?)

There just isn't this reservoir of full pay, academically qualified, athletically-talented, well-behaved kids you apparently believe there is. I have watched Admissions of classes at one of the Top 10 schools for decades. I have seen them not admit full pay kids for a variety of reasons and I have watched FA make significant contributions the school environment and go on to significantly outperform their Full Pay classmates after graduations. I've noticed that rich families seem to have a lot of dumb, and/or entitled and and/or poorly behaved kids that these schools would prefer not to have.

You are right about one thing. One of us doesn't know how this works.

You are completely delusional if you believe this. Wowsers.

The full pay kids would be just fine on their own.

You don't even understand the topic.

FA students maintain the school's reputation for successful students, which attracts full pay students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do those financial aid numbers include tuition remission for faculty and staff? That may be where the bulk of that money is going.

+1 the FA budget for random applicants is certainly much smaller than the full FA budget. The FA office may prioritize faculty and staff, current families, families with siblings attending, alumni, and who so on.

Financial Aid is an enrollment management tool. The belief is that a class with only full pay kids would be a disaster.

Since all families pay something they want to make sure they have a full class. Just like the airlines, it’s better to discount fares and fill the plane than it is to take off with empty seats.

It’s also true that some applicants that need FA offer the school something’s that the next candidate on the list of Full Pay applicants does not. That might be academic aptitude, athletic skill, legacy status, etc., etc.

The idea that there are an almost unlimited numbers of qualified applicants with the ability to pay tuition is just not true. Many of these kids have academic or social problems that the school doesn’t want to sign up for four years.

The competitive DMV privates could easily fill up their classes with zero financial aid, however the optics are not worth it. Financial aid is just as much a marketing/PR tool as anything else.

The last poster doesn’t understand how any of this works.

Where are you getting this from? What you don't grasp is the fall off in the "quality" of the Full Pay kids after 75% of these classes are filled. The FA kids are bringing something to the party that these additional full pay kids do not. And the schools are willing to give up tuition dollars to bring these kids in.

You want to explain this away as "optics" and marketing fluff. It's not. What it really is is schools that know what they need in a class to satisfy all the various constituencies on campus. The long-term existence of the FA programs in the face of the school's need for and love of money is pretty clear proof that you are wrong. ($3 million for "optics" at Visitation is a pretty steep price, don't you think?)

There just isn't this reservoir of full pay, academically qualified, athletically-talented, well-behaved kids you apparently believe there is. I have watched Admissions of classes at one of the Top 10 schools for decades. I have seen them not admit full pay kids for a variety of reasons and I have watched FA make significant contributions the school environment and go on to significantly outperform their Full Pay classmates after graduations. I've noticed that rich families seem to have a lot of dumb, and/or entitled and and/or poorly behaved kids that these schools would prefer not to have.

You are right about one thing. One of us doesn't know how this works.

You are completely delusional if you believe this. Wowsers.

The full pay kids would be just fine on their own.

You don't even understand the topic.

FA students maintain the school's reputation for successful students, which attracts full pay students.

The admissions standards are the same regardless of FA. The FA students make little difference in overall student success.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The main benefits of FA are that it makes the school appear less elitist and provides socioeconomic diversity. These two points are used in marketing/PR to attract more full pay applicants. It is ultimately about the full pay students at the school, to their benefit.

This is spot on.

[Anonymous]

For whatever it is worth, we applied for financial aid and got in but no aid. Public school with HSPT score in 99th percentile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For whatever it is worth, we applied for financial aid and got in but no aid. Public school with HSPT score in 99th percentile.

This isn't uncommon.

And that they offered your daughter a spot in the freshman class shows that they thought she could do the work, fit in and make a positive contribution to the class and the school. They restrict the number of acceptances if for no other reason that they don't want to exceed the capacity of the class or school. "Yield" is a big deal for them as there are operational difficulties for missing the final freshman class size on the high or low sides.

This does show that it's not the information on the FA application that is the driver in this process. It's the school who uses this information as a data point in the decision on to whom they offer the $750K of available FA. Your FA "need" is just one of the things they are looking at.

They also have years of experience looking at FA applications and then seeing what people do at different levels of offers of aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The main benefits of FA are that it makes the school appear less elitist and provides socioeconomic diversity. These two points are used in marketing/PR to attract more full pay applicants. It is ultimately about the full pay students at the school, to their benefit.

The FA budget isn't all about helping poor families send their daughters to Visi.

The majority of the FA packages awarded are less than 50% of the $40,000 Tuition. How much socioeconomic diversity are you getting when 2/3rds of the FA recipients still have to come up with $25,000 or 30,000 plus all the associated costs of attending?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For whatever it is worth, we applied for financial aid and got in but no aid. Public school with HSPT score in 99th percentile.

This isn't uncommon.

And that they offered your daughter a spot in the freshman class shows that they thought she could do the work, fit in and make a positive contribution to the class and the school. They restrict the number of acceptances if for no other reason that they don't want to exceed the capacity of the class or school. "Yield" is a big deal for them as there are operational difficulties for missing the final freshman class size on the high or low sides.

This does show that it's not the information on the FA application that is the driver in this process. It's the school who uses this information as a data point in the decision on to whom they offer the $750K of available FA. Your FA "need" is just one of the things they are looking at.

They also have years of experience looking at FA applications and then seeing what people do at different levels of offers of aid.

Does coming from a public school weigh heavily on who gets FA? Seeing this person has a HSPT score in 99th percentile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The main benefits of FA are that it makes the school appear less elitist and provides socioeconomic diversity. These two points are used in marketing/PR to attract more full pay applicants. It is ultimately about the full pay students at the school, to their benefit.

The FA budget isn't all about helping poor families send their daughters to Visi.

The majority of the FA packages awarded are less than 50% of the $40,000 Tuition. How much socioeconomic diversity are you getting when 2/3rds of the FA recipients still have to come up with $25,000 or 30,000 plus all the associated costs of attending?

Good point. It means that a family with multiple kids has a chance for FA..!this could help professionals such as Fed families, professors, and teachers ( so that the whole class isn't comprised of doctor's + Big Law) kids. It is a Catholic School afterall ( yes, independent).

Visi will then ID a few high potential "diversity kids" to offer a few full rides.