Colleges afraid of losing application revenue and interest due to enrollment cliff are staying Test Optional ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, what is your background? What are your credentials?

Because these schools give our fee waivers like candy. They don't rely on application fees to stay afloat. That's a tiny part of their budgets. They probably spend more on postage.

You seem to struggle with reading comprehension. OP said they were afraid of losing application "numbers" not application fees. Those are two different things.

It's obvious that OP is making a point that colleges are trying to increase their "application numbers" because that makes them look more selective. A larger denominator (# of apps) equals a lower admission percentage which most conflate with more prestige. They're trying to game their admission percentage by encouraging more unqualified admissions from kids who think they have a chance with inflated GPAs and no standardized tests. They don't care about application fees. So fee waivers aren't really relevant to OPs point.

[Anonymous]

I think Yale’s test required makes the most sense. If you’ve got 5s in calc and English lit, why do I care about your sat score exactly?

I’m also confused by CMC’s decisions, seeing that the faculty recommended test optional a week before recommending a test required college. It seems like they don’t actually have any plan or reasoning, and they just want to follow likely conservative/donor pressure. Note that CMC hardly gets applications and this is gonna torpedo their count even worse. They are trying to shred a bro culture, have a pretty long, annoying application, and are competing with the other Claremont colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think Yale’s test required makes the most sense. If you’ve got 5s in calc and English lit, why do I care about your sat score exactly?

I’m also confused by CMC’s decisions, seeing that the faculty recommended test optional a week before recommending a test required college. It seems like they don’t actually have any plan or reasoning, and they just want to follow likely conservative/donor pressure. Note that CMC hardly gets applications and this is gonna torpedo their count even worse. They are trying to shred a bro culture, have a pretty long, annoying application, and are competing with the other Claremont colleges.

Unlike some other LACs like Bowdoin, CMC used to be test required until the pandemic. They got roughly the same # of applications then as they do now. Their new policy will hit in 2 years. It seems the vote from faculty followed a new report that examined grades from students who were test optional and test submitted. The faculty voted almost 2:1 in favor of returning to their pre-covid testing requirements following an analysis of that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Yale’s test required makes the most sense. If you’ve got 5s in calc and English lit, why do I care about your sat score exactly?

I’m also confused by CMC’s decisions, seeing that the faculty recommended test optional a week before recommending a test required college. It seems like they don’t actually have any plan or reasoning, and they just want to follow likely conservative/donor pressure. Note that CMC hardly gets applications and this is gonna torpedo their count even worse. They are trying to shred a bro culture, have a pretty long, annoying application, and are competing with the other Claremont colleges.

Unlike some other LACs like Bowdoin, CMC used to be test required until the pandemic. They got roughly the same # of applications then as they do now. Their new policy will hit in 2 years. It seems the vote from faculty followed a new report that examined grades from students who were test optional and test submitted. The faculty voted almost 2:1 in favor of returning to their pre-covid testing requirements following an analysis of that.

Most LACs were test required until the pandemic. I don’t see any source indicating a report examining grades, so I’d like to know where you got that from.

CMC has very few students submitting test scores and the ones who do are on average submitting test scores that are nearly 200 points higher than prior to Covid. They’re not going to get applications.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think Yale’s test required makes the most sense. If you’ve got 5s in calc and English lit, why do I care about your sat score exactly?

I’m also confused by CMC’s decisions, seeing that the faculty recommended test optional a week before recommending a test required college. It seems like they don’t actually have any plan or reasoning, and they just want to follow likely conservative/donor pressure. Note that CMC hardly gets applications and this is gonna torpedo their count even worse. They are trying to shred a bro culture, have a pretty long, annoying application, and are competing with the other Claremont colleges.

cmc would probably receive more apps if they didn't charge a fee and/or removed their supplemental essays, interview and video requests. as you said, it's a long annoying application process. and now they are adding test requirements too. so I do think those things do impact how easy it is to apply, and how many applications they will receive. but it seems they care more about fit than just finding tactics to increase their overall number of unserious applicants.

[Anonymous]

OP - what are your views on how JP Morgan should lend money? You'd certainly know more than them about the assessment criteria they should or shouldn't use.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, what is your background? What are your credentials?

Because these schools give our fee waivers like candy. They don't rely on application fees to stay afloat. That's a tiny part of their budgets. They probably spend more on postage.

You seem to struggle with reading comprehension. OP said they were afraid of losing application "numbers" not application fees. Those are two different things.

It's obvious that OP is making a point that colleges are trying to increase their "application numbers" because that makes them look more selective. A larger denominator (# of apps) equals a lower admission percentage which most conflate with more prestige. They're trying to game their admission percentage by encouraging more unqualified admissions from kids who think they have a chance with inflated GPAs and no standardized tests. They don't care about application fees. So fee waivers aren't really relevant to OPs point.

I think the PP probably was referring to the thread title which mentions application revenue. The OP used application numbers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The enrollment cliff is not going to have any impact at these schools for many years , if then. There’s no nervousness.

Look elsewhere for why they choose to remain test optional.

This --- most of the schools on the list will not face any enrollment cliff. Ever. The cliff hit lower. Some schools in the top 100 but most of the impact will be outside that. Yale will still get its full set of apps even if there as less kids as others with lower stats will be encouraged to apply because of the supposed cliff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Yale’s test required makes the most sense. If you’ve got 5s in calc and English lit, why do I care about your sat score exactly?

I’m also confused by CMC’s decisions, seeing that the faculty recommended test optional a week before recommending a test required college. It seems like they don’t actually have any plan or reasoning, and they just want to follow likely conservative/donor pressure. Note that CMC hardly gets applications and this is gonna torpedo their count even worse. They are trying to shred a bro culture, have a pretty long, annoying application, and are competing with the other Claremont colleges.

Unlike some other LACs like Bowdoin, CMC used to be test required until the pandemic. They got roughly the same # of applications then as they do now. Their new policy will hit in 2 years. It seems the vote from faculty followed a new report that examined grades from students who were test optional and test submitted. The faculty voted almost 2:1 in favor of returning to their pre-covid testing requirements following an analysis of that.

Most LACs were test required until the pandemic. I don’t see any source indicating a report examining grades, so I’d like to know where you got that from.

CMC has very few students submitting test scores and the ones who do are on average submitting test scores that are nearly 200 points higher than prior to Covid. They’re not going to get applications.

This was shared with students: "A confidential report examining the relationship between admitted students’ test scores and CMC grades was presented to the faculty." Faculty voted in favor of reverting back to test required in January 2025 by a vote of 53-24. That was later approved by SVP of Admissions, President, trustees, etc and will be effective for class entering 2028 (so they're still TO this year and next).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Yale’s test required makes the most sense. If you’ve got 5s in calc and English lit, why do I care about your sat score exactly?

I’m also confused by CMC’s decisions, seeing that the faculty recommended test optional a week before recommending a test required college. It seems like they don’t actually have any plan or reasoning, and they just want to follow likely conservative/donor pressure. Note that CMC hardly gets applications and this is gonna torpedo their count even worse. They are trying to shred a bro culture, have a pretty long, annoying application, and are competing with the other Claremont colleges.

cmc would probably receive more apps if they didn't charge a fee and/or removed their supplemental essays, interview and video requests. as you said, it's a long annoying application process. and now they are adding test requirements too. so I do think those things do impact how easy it is to apply, and how many applications they will receive. but it seems they care more about fit than just finding tactics to increase their overall number of unserious applicants.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is information to suggest SAT/ACT can be predictive of thriving in college but many colleges who could move to test required are also scared of losing application numbers as the enrollment cliff hits in the next 2-5 years. So there's a group of nervous colleges fighting for the candidates who have high GPAs but test poorly:

Test Optional stalwarts:
U Chicago
Notre Dame
Columbia
UCs
Swarthmore
Pomona
Carleton
Williams
Amherst

Test Required or soon to be:
Princeton
Harvard
UPenn
Cornell
MIT
Stanford
Georgetown
Claremont McKenna

You're really fixated on this test optional thing, aincha?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Yale’s test required makes the most sense. If you’ve got 5s in calc and English lit, why do I care about your sat score exactly?

I’m also confused by CMC’s decisions, seeing that the faculty recommended test optional a week before recommending a test required college. It seems like they don’t actually have any plan or reasoning, and they just want to follow likely conservative/donor pressure. Note that CMC hardly gets applications and this is gonna torpedo their count even worse. They are trying to shred a bro culture, have a pretty long, annoying application, and are competing with the other Claremont colleges.

Unlike some other LACs like Bowdoin, CMC used to be test required until the pandemic. They got roughly the same # of applications then as they do now. Their new policy will hit in 2 years. It seems the vote from faculty followed a new report that examined grades from students who were test optional and test submitted. The faculty voted almost 2:1 in favor of returning to their pre-covid testing requirements following an analysis of that.

Most LACs were test required until the pandemic. I don’t see any source indicating a report examining grades, so I’d like to know where you got that from.

CMC has very few students submitting test scores and the ones who do are on average submitting test scores that are nearly 200 points higher than prior to Covid. They’re not going to get applications.

This was shared with students: "A confidential report examining the relationship between admitted students’ test scores and CMC grades was presented to the faculty." Faculty voted in favor of reverting back to test required in January 2025 by a vote of 53-24. That was later approved by SVP of Admissions, President, trustees, etc and will be effective for class entering 2028 (so they're still TO this year and next).

Not so confidential anymore.