DS struggling in 8th grade Algebra 1 Honors

[Anonymous]

Please, do it now. The current unit is so so so critical. The rest of the year builds on this.

-algebra teacher

[Anonymous]

How did he get here? What math was he in last year?

[Anonymous]

Who was pushing his math? Most math teachers will tell you acceleration is NOT the best path for most. It’s the non-math school officials that often are ones pushing and THEY DONT KNOW YOUR KID!

I was not a fan of Lucy Culkins “why teach them vocabulary or to spell” when that was being pushed by FCPS but maybe that is better than the make all kids take algebra before ready when absolutely no reason for all kids to take in MS.

[Anonymous]

Do one quarter first. Then. Choose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do one quarter first. Then. Choose.

You can switch classes after an entire quarter?

[Anonymous]

Trying to understand something here. How do all these kids go into TJ and ace these classes at this age then? Are they geniuses or are incredibly prepped and accelerated since early age? What is the difference between HN and non HN versions of Algebra 1? Posts here suggest one is more accelerated, but what does it mean at the end of the day? Does HN cover more material in the course of a year? Does this benefit kids in HS when they are already familiar with it, does some of it repeat? Trying to understand if there is any advantage at all to Algebra 1 HN for kids who aren't hyper accelerated to get into TJ or other reasons or are plainly mathematical geniuses who love the subject and need this extra challenge. Assuming these kids would be a small minority would there even be enough of them to fill one class?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Trying to understand something here. How do all these kids go into TJ and ace these classes at this age then? Are they geniuses or are incredibly prepped and accelerated since early age? What is the difference between HN and non HN versions of Algebra 1? Posts here suggest one is more accelerated, but what does it mean at the end of the day? Does HN cover more material in the course of a year? Does this benefit kids in HS when they are already familiar with it, does some of it repeat? Trying to understand if there is any advantage at all to Algebra 1 HN for kids who aren't hyper accelerated to get into TJ or other reasons or are plainly mathematical geniuses who love the subject and need this extra challenge. Assuming these kids would be a small minority would there even be enough of them to fill one class?

TJ accepts around 500 students a year, most have had Geometry or Algebra 2, they are the kids who find math easy and don’t do any enrichment or find math easy and do enrichment or are good at math and have had support through enrichment. Either way, they are kids who tend to pick up math quickly and easily. But that is a small percentage of the FCPS population.

Around 15% of FCPS students will take Algebra 1 H before 8th grade, some with help through tutoring or enrichment, some with no help. It is probably a normal range of ability. Other kids struggle. I worked my butt of for A’s in regular Algebra, Geometry, and Algebra 2. My older brothers barely did anything for A’s in the honors math classes and Calc BC, to include 5’s on the AP test and perfect math scores. Different people with different abilities, same household.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who was pushing his math? Most math teachers will tell you acceleration is NOT the best path for most. It’s the non-math school officials that often are ones pushing and THEY DONT KNOW YOUR KID!

I was not a fan of Lucy Culkins “why teach them vocabulary or to spell” when that was being pushed by FCPS but maybe that is better than the make all kids take algebra before ready when absolutely no reason for all kids to take in MS.

The County is pushing hard. All of this was reported in posts on this board last year.

Last year FCPS dropped the IAAT as a measure for taking Algebra 1H in 7th grade, kids were allowed to enroll with a pass advanced on the 7th grade SOL. Kids in advanced math and 6th grade APP who had selected Math 7H were placed in A1H without checking with parents, parents had to opt out even when they had already selected Math 7H.

Kids in Math 7 who had selected Math 8 were enrolled in A1H as 8th graders, parents had to opt out and move the kid to A1 or back to Math 8.

Two weeks before school started, 20 ES were notified that they were going to be part of a pilot program for A1H in 6th grade. Two weeks before school parents were notified that their kid had been placed in A1H as a 6th grader and that they had 2 weeks to opt their kid out of A1H as a 6th grader. Teachers and schools had two weeks to prepare a HS level math class that they had not been expecting to offer.

Ried has said that she wants every child to have Algebra 1 in 8th grade so that they have an opportunity to take Calculus, which is a strange goal because not every kid needs Calculus and close to 75% of the kids in the county have taken Algebra 1 by 9th grade already. I have no idea why this goal seems to have lead to additional acceleration in math beyond FCPS already accelerated program.

I don't have a problem with 6th graders taking A1H, I don't think that there are thousands of kids who are ready or need Algebra in 6th grade; the pilot has 700 kids in it at 20 schools. I don't have a problem with A1H offered to 7th graders, I suspect that there were already kids struggling with the class and that the net was too large before they dropped the IAAT requirement.

OP, let your kid drop to regular Algebra 1. There is no problem with that. He will still be able to take AP Precalc and AP Calculus. He is not failing out of HS taking a regular level math class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s been rough. Failing the quizzes. Did a retake on unit 1 and got a 78. So he has a C- at the moment. He has a tutor and I help him. He’s working hard and seemed to understand the new material and but didn’t do well on the latest quiz. He says the teacher goes so fast. He stays after school but doesn’t sound like she’s the most patient in helping him.
Question is at what point do we have him go down to non honors. Is it better to get a B in that class vs a C (or worse) in the honors class. I don’t want to see him struggle all year. It’s stressing out the whole family to be honest. Counselor said no rush to drop down but wondering how long we give it.
Overall he’s a B student in other classes if that helps.
Any insight welcome!!

Give him some financial incentive to master it. Also ask tutor to first fix any weaknesses in his elementary math skills. Just don't be upset or disappointed, be patiently supportive.

[Anonymous]

No shame in dropping down if it's stressful for whole family as then it must be really hard for the kid. This isn't going to hold him back in life. Get tutoring during summer, master it and take it in 9th grade with full confidence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How did he get here? What math was he in last year?

These are the two best question in the thread.

What math was taken last year, what grades did the kid get, and how prepared did you feel your student was heading into 8th grade Algebra 1 Honors?


My not great at math kid took and passed Algebra 1 Honors in 8th grade, and that came after a pretty bad 7th grade honors math year (he spent 70% of 7th grade watching YouTube).

I'd ask for additional help, not just after school with the teacher, if that's feasible.

But I would take a look at the LightSpeed data on what your child is doing during the day, specifically during math. Are they legitimately paying attention? If they did well in prior math classes, and you're seeing a drop in retention and knowledge then I have a feeling it is the kid's focus level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do one quarter first. Then. Choose.

You can switch classes after an entire quarter?

You have until the end of first quarter to drop with no penalty. For some reason I can only find it on Edison's page, but the policy is the same for the whole county

A student must have guidance and/or administrative authorization and written parental permission in order to drop a class. Requests to drop IB classes will not be considered until the end of 1st Quarter. If a student is allowed to drop a class from his/her schedule, the following is the result:

--During the first quarter – nothing is recorded on the transcript.
--After first quarter report cards have been distributed until the end of third quarter – Withdraw Passing (WP) or Withdraw Failing (WF) is recorded on the transcript.
--Fourth quarter – requires Principal permission and a WP or F is recorded on the transcript.

https://edisonhs.fcps.edu/student-services/dropwithdraw-procedure

Until the end of the quarter it will look like your child was enrolled in the other class the whole time. After the end of first quarter, it will show both classes (honors with a withdrawn/passing and regular with a class grade). My school has done course changes as late as February.

[Anonymous]

You might not be able to drop until after first quarter. My kid at Oakton dropped to a nonhonors math starting 2nd quarter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How did he get here? What math was he in last year?

These are the two best question in the thread.

What math was taken last year, what grades did the kid get, and how prepared did you feel your student was heading into 8th grade Algebra 1 Honors?


My not great at math kid took and passed Algebra 1 Honors in 8th grade, and that came after a pretty bad 7th grade honors math year (he spent 70% of 7th grade watching YouTube).

I'd ask for additional help, not just after school with the teacher, if that's feasible.

But I would take a look at the LightSpeed data on what your child is doing during the day, specifically during math. Are they legitimately paying attention? If they did well in prior math classes, and you're seeing a drop in retention and knowledge then I have a feeling it is the kid's focus level.

Or it could be not a match for teaching style and when younger the kids have harder time countering that on their own (or teaching themselves if that is what have to do to learn it). The answer is not getting a tutor when no reason to be taking in MS anyway. Let them drop and then build foundation and be better position next year to confidently do the class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who was pushing his math? Most math teachers will tell you acceleration is NOT the best path for most. It’s the non-math school officials that often are ones pushing and THEY DONT KNOW YOUR KID!

I was not a fan of Lucy Culkins “why teach them vocabulary or to spell” when that was being pushed by FCPS but maybe that is better than the make all kids take algebra before ready when absolutely no reason for all kids to take in MS.

The County is pushing hard. All of this was reported in posts on this board last year.

Last year FCPS dropped the IAAT as a measure for taking Algebra 1H in 7th grade, kids were allowed to enroll with a pass advanced on the 7th grade SOL. Kids in advanced math and 6th grade APP who had selected Math 7H were placed in A1H without checking with parents, parents had to opt out even when they had already selected Math 7H.

Kids in Math 7 who had selected Math 8 were enrolled in A1H as 8th graders, parents had to opt out and move the kid to A1 or back to Math 8.

Two weeks before school started, 20 ES were notified that they were going to be part of a pilot program for A1H in 6th grade. Two weeks before school parents were notified that their kid had been placed in A1H as a 6th grader and that they had 2 weeks to opt their kid out of A1H as a 6th grader. Teachers and schools had two weeks to prepare a HS level math class that they had not been expecting to offer.

Ried has said that she wants every child to have Algebra 1 in 8th grade so that they have an opportunity to take Calculus, which is a strange goal because not every kid needs Calculus and close to 75% of the kids in the county have taken Algebra 1 by 9th grade already. I have no idea why this goal seems to have lead to additional acceleration in math beyond FCPS already accelerated program.

I don't have a problem with 6th graders taking A1H, I don't think that there are thousands of kids who are ready or need Algebra in 6th grade; the pilot has 700 kids in it at 20 schools. I don't have a problem with A1H offered to 7th graders, I suspect that there were already kids struggling with the class and that the net was too large before they dropped the IAAT requirement.

OP, let your kid drop to regular Algebra 1. There is no problem with that. He will still be able to take AP Precalc and AP Calculus. He is not failing out of HS taking a regular level math class.

Adding to your list, absolutely no thought has been given to what happens to the 6th grade algebra takers when they finish all the math available at their HS. If don’t go to TJ, not sure any HS has-or if they do, very few have- math classes past multivariate calculus. Kids may be having to take online or go to NOVA community. And don’t even begin to talk about how doesn’t work for IB- right now just taking algebra in 7th is a mess because kids finish their IB math as a junior but if want full diploma (the highest), cannot take test for that until 12th. The 6th grade algebra takers will have 2 years between finishing the math they have to take a test on and when they can take test. It’s just NOT thought out and experimenting on kids.