Harvard Has Identified Another Problem - Its Own Students!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Zero issues. Fit in great. Won a department award first year. Loves classes, lots of friends. Private Catholic HS which was very rigorous—writing program excellent so got great remarks on first college papers.

Remind me where we asked about your child

look at the OP's question. it's the top of the page. that's where you'll find it.

[Anonymous]

If you’ve read “The Anxious Generation,” none of this is a surprise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The article mentions politics a lot, but my institution is not as left leaning as Harvard or the Ivies, and in recent years we have the same problem with class engagement. We also have a HUGE problem with students being distracted on their phones or on their laptops doing other things during class, which affects their learning. It's demoralizing to lecture to a crowd of device zombies. I had started to wonder if things were better at other higher ranked institutions which get the first pick of students, but I guess it's not any better at the top either.

I do think this is a generational issue - even at the most selective schools.

But I do wonder if that's why engineering students are so highly valued - no matter the school. You can't coast. You can't check out. You can't play on your phone. Or you will be told to leave the program by sophomore year. It's like engineering is the last major that requires an attention span.

I teach one of the hard sciences at a T10, and while it's not engineering, attention is needed to do well, and students are not performing up to standards from 10 years ago. We have had to lower standards quite a bit to accommodate for poor attention spans, poor study skills, poor critical thinking. The top 10% of the class remains as sharp as ever, but when I look at the difficulty of exams given 10 years ago and what the score distribution was then vs now, the decline is undeniable. And I am not talking about only first generation college students struggling, I mean kids from all backgrounds including privileged ones. When I have mentioned this before on DCUM, I get reactions of disbelief. "What you're claiming is impossible because my kids are working their butts off and the average SAT at selective schools now is so much higher than before." I wish I could show parents the data, and I wish they could see what the students are up to in class instead of paying attention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The article mentions politics a lot, but my institution is not as left leaning as Harvard or the Ivies, and in recent years we have the same problem with class engagement. We also have a HUGE problem with students being distracted on their phones or on their laptops doing other things during class, which affects their learning. It's demoralizing to lecture to a crowd of device zombies. I had started to wonder if things were better at other higher ranked institutions which get the first pick of students, but I guess it's not any better at the top either.

I do think this is a generational issue - even at the most selective schools.

But I do wonder if that's why engineering students are so highly valued - no matter the school. You can't coast. You can't check out. You can't play on your phone. Or you will be told to leave the program by sophomore year. It's like engineering is the last major that requires an attention span.

I teach one of the hard sciences at a T10, and while it's not engineering, attention is needed to do well, and students are not performing up to standards from 10 years ago. We have had to lower standards quite a bit to accommodate for poor attention spans, poor study skills, poor critical thinking. The top 10% of the class remains as sharp as ever, but when I look at the difficulty of exams given 10 years ago and what the score distribution was then vs now, the decline is undeniable. And I am not talking about only first generation college students struggling, I mean kids from all backgrounds including privileged ones. When I have mentioned this before on DCUM, I get reactions of disbelief. "What you're claiming is impossible because my kids are working their butts off and the average SAT at selective schools now is so much higher than before." I wish I could show parents the data, and I wish they could see what the students are up to in class instead of paying attention.

Why not make honors sections of the classes for the top 10%? Have you talked with admissions to see which traits the top 10% have in their admissions profile that the others don't in order to improve the admissions process and admit more of those kids (and, tacitly, less of the poor performers)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The article mentions politics a lot, but my institution is not as left leaning as Harvard or the Ivies, and in recent years we have the same problem with class engagement. We also have a HUGE problem with students being distracted on their phones or on their laptops doing other things during class, which affects their learning. It's demoralizing to lecture to a crowd of device zombies. I had started to wonder if things were better at other higher ranked institutions which get the first pick of students, but I guess it's not any better at the top either.

I do think this is a generational issue - even at the most selective schools.

But I do wonder if that's why engineering students are so highly valued - no matter the school. You can't coast. You can't check out. You can't play on your phone. Or you will be told to leave the program by sophomore year. It's like engineering is the last major that requires an attention span.

I teach one of the hard sciences at a T10, and while it's not engineering, attention is needed to do well, and students are not performing up to standards from 10 years ago. We have had to lower standards quite a bit to accommodate for poor attention spans, poor study skills, poor critical thinking. The top 10% of the class remains as sharp as ever, but when I look at the difficulty of exams given 10 years ago and what the score distribution was then vs now, the decline is undeniable. And I am not talking about only first generation college students struggling, I mean kids from all backgrounds including privileged ones. When I have mentioned this before on DCUM, I get reactions of disbelief. "What you're claiming is impossible because my kids are working their butts off and the average SAT at selective schools now is so much higher than before." I wish I could show parents the data, and I wish they could see what the students are up to in class instead of paying attention.

Why not make honors sections of the classes for the top 10%? Have you talked with admissions to see which traits the top 10% have in their admissions profile that the others don't in order to improve the admissions process and admit more of those kids (and, tacitly, less of the poor performers)?

DP. Every selective college will want a variety of kids. Those who attend every class and get 100%, those who make the campus a better and lively place, those who are good friends that others can rely on, and so on. They don’t want only top academic performers. What a boring place that would be!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Zero issues. Fit in great. Won a department award first year. Loves classes, lots of friends. Private Catholic HS which was very rigorous—writing program excellent so got great remarks on first college papers.

You forgot to mention that they go to Broome Community College

Hey!! There’s nothing wrong with Broome. They have great dorm facilities , majors that certify for good jobs or you can transition to Binghamton for a Bachelor’s.

But I’m sure poster’s son found somewhere comparable or close anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Zero issues. Fit in great. Won a department award first year. Loves classes, lots of friends. Private Catholic HS which was very rigorous—writing program excellent so got great remarks on first college papers.

Remind me where we asked about your child

OP here. Why the snark? Original posting was for personal and recent experience in T25 and that is what this PP provided

The question was do you have any personal experience with these same things happening at your school? . An answer might be the student noticed half the class missing Friday mornings or students having full conversations on phone. Or everyone got an A or B with a consistently empty room.

His answer wasn’t relevant to your question. Please.

[Anonymous]

You admit manic pixie dream kids who are over involved in extracurriculars, you get manic pixie dream kids who are over involved in extracurriculars.

[Anonymous]

Is anyone surprised by the idea that you can enroll in classes that meet at the same time at Harvard bc kids otherwise wouldn’t get the classes they want? Huge red flag.

Have several friends involved in higher Ed, either teaching or admin, and all report these issues. Kids too fixated on grades/emotionally unable to deal with Bs, needing remedial math bc they are coming in unprepared despite taking higher level classes.i have also heard that many high schools don’t have kids read entire books. That was not my kids’ experience.

From these conversations, the admissions system is failing kids.

Also, adding to the anecdotal data point, of my kids’ friends, the one at Harvard is the least happy with his college experience. Kids at Chicago, Williams, Notre Dame, and UNC among others report to be very happy.

[jsteele]

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1295942.page