Purpose of school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My take is that public school used to be about indoctrination (civics, ethics/morality, family values, respect, order) along with providing supervision for children and an acceptable baseline of education (reading, writing, ‘rithmetic).

I’m not so sure what public school is for now. Childcare and some basic level (maybe) of socialization?

The problem is that socialization now doesn't take place mostly in person but also online (even with real friend group). And our kids aren't just socialized with each other but with the entire world of social media influence. Every public school is like 2 schools in one: kids of helicopter parents who monitor every HW and test, procure tutoring or enhance education outside of school hours and/or over-enroll kids into activities to have more control over how they spend every minute of their time. And everyone else, who is dragged down even if they might be naturally above average in intelligence and/or curious about academics.

[Anonymous]

The primary purpose of institutionalised schooling has always been to provide state-funded childcare to both parents can work. If a teacher is paid to watch the kids while both parents work and pay taxes to pay the teacher, that's much better for the GDP than if only one parent needs to work and the other can stay at home with the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Schools have been chasing fad curricula since textbooks existed. My Aunt has been in education for 60 years and can list each decade's fad.

OP. This is totally believable. I was a victim of the "new math" of my era, which foisted an untested "new" approach that had no sound pedagogical basis on my generation of kids.

OP, how old are you and how old is your child? “New Math” was a trend in the 60s. Someone who experienced New Math is more likely to be a grandparent than a parent to an elementary school child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Schools have been chasing fad curricula since textbooks existed. My Aunt has been in education for 60 years and can list each decade's fad.

OP. This is totally believable. I was a victim of the "new math" of my era, which foisted an untested "new" approach that had no sound pedagogical basis on my generation of kids.

OP, how old are you and how old is your child? “New Math” was a trend in the 60s. Someone who experienced New Math is more likely to be a grandparent than a parent to an elementary school child.

Different flavors of "new math" have appeared every decade for many years. There were 1990s flavored "new math", new millenium "new math", and more recently the math workshop flavor of "new math". None of them worked, btw.

As a non-Catholic seriously considering a Carholic ES, I find their use of out-of-style-for-decades traditional math refreshing. They teach one way to solve each kind of problem. They have enough school work and homework that kids actually will memorize that one method.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Back in the day, school seemed focused on academics. Now it seems like school is focused on anything except academics. Parents across the country supplement with their kids outside school - in many or all subjects - not just for math.

I am realizing the main current benefit of elementary school for our DC is just socialization.

What happened?

Troll

Just shut up.

You must be an idiot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Back in the day, school seemed focused on academics. Now it seems like school is focused on anything except academics. Parents across the country supplement with their kids outside school - in many or all subjects - not just for math.

I am realizing the main current benefit of elementary school for our DC is just socialization.

What happened?

Troll

Just shut up.

You must be an idiot.

You're the idiot. None of what this person is saying is wrong. Public schools shouldn't exist to brainwash children on topics that the vast majority of Americans disagree with. The fact is most kids have literally become dumb not because of who they are but what they weren’t taught in the 4 traditional core subjects.

I can't begin to count the number of hours at school dedicated to non-academics every single day. I've been saying for years to just teach our kids the 2-4 hours of actual subject material being taught per day and let them leave school so they can be productive in their sports, activities, and outside interests. Or actually raise the pathetic state curricular standards and teach them for 6+ hours per day

And the socializing argument makes no sense, either. As if you can't learn to play nice with people while excelling in academics. Furthermore, I notice the most woke parents still have kids whose friends all look like them and not other groups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Schools have been chasing fad curricula since textbooks existed. My Aunt has been in education for 60 years and can list each decade's fad.

OP. This is totally believable. I was a victim of the "new math" of my era, which foisted an untested "new" approach that had no sound pedagogical basis on my generation of kids.

OP, how old are you and how old is your child? “New Math” was a trend in the 60s. Someone who experienced New Math is more likely to be a grandparent than a parent to an elementary school child.

Different flavors of "new math" have appeared every decade for many years. There were 1990s flavored "new math", new millenium "new math", and more recently the math workshop flavor of "new math". None of them worked, btw.

As a non-Catholic seriously considering a Carholic ES, I find their use of out-of-style-for-decades traditional math refreshing. They teach one way to solve each kind of problem. They have enough school work and homework that kids actually will memorize that one method.

Generally when people use the term “New Math” they are referring to the changes in teaching math that occurred in the 60s. It was a change that affected almost all the schools in the US during that era. Yes, even Catholic schools were using New Math textbooks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Math

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When you were a kid, college wasn’t an assumption. Now, more kids are going to college, so there is a push to make things more academic.
You see it as not academic, yet in FCPS and MCPS and Arlington there is a push to get all 8th graders to take algebra and have 6th graders take it as well.
More kids are taking AP classes than when you were a kid.

So basically, you perspective is skewed and things are more academic so parents want their kids to get even further ahead and they use tutoring to help.

No... the actual foundations were stronger in the past. Yes, there are more AP classes, but they are now much easier to pass and the requirements have been watered down. You are deluding yourself if you think that kids are more "academic" now. It is a veneer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you were a kid, college wasn’t an assumption. Now, more kids are going to college, so there is a push to make things more academic.
You see it as not academic, yet in FCPS and MCPS and Arlington there is a push to get all 8th graders to take algebra and have 6th graders take it as well.
More kids are taking AP classes than when you were a kid.

So basically, you perspective is skewed and things are more academic so parents want their kids to get even further ahead and they use tutoring to help.

No... the actual foundations were stronger in the past. Yes, there are more AP classes, but they are now much easier to pass and the requirements have been watered down. You are deluding yourself if you think that kids are more "academic" now. It is a veneer.

Agreed. For example, AP precalc is easier and covers less material than a traditional precalc class. Both AP English classes at our kids' school are so "difficult" that they barely have time to read and discuss one whole novel from cover to cover--yes, no exaggeration and pathetic.

AP tests in the past were meant for serious students so the rigor was much higher. Now it's meant for volume to sell more tests. At our kids' public hs, the "normal" course for a few subjects is the AP version (including the English classes mentioned above), which is why some of the classes are taught at a sped level for the kids who can't keep up; yet the vast majority of the kids still passed the AP test because it's so easy.

I think many of the parents who think the schools around the DMV didn't go to very good high schools themselves. We've known (through sports and other activities) kids that have attended many of the top schools in the area, and after talking with parents, I can 100% say that many parents have no clue what a good hs should be like.

[Anonymous]

What happened was you were a child then and didn't have a mature perspective, and now you are an adult with nostalgia.

[Anonymous]

Public schools formerly provided education in math, science, history, civics, reading and writing, as well as vocational skills and skills to alllow students to get low level jobs.

At the high end they prepared students for college to pursue what ever field of study they chose.

Now school is about day care and lowering the educational bar so the lower performing students don’t feel bad about themselves.

In the past there were meaningful distinctions in grades and a C was given for average work. Now A- is the grade for average work. Can’t have little Larla or Larlo feeling bad about their academic performance.

It is why people can’t make change unless the cash register tells them what to do and Gen Z have trouble holding down jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you were a kid, college wasn’t an assumption. Now, more kids are going to college, so there is a push to make things more academic.
You see it as not academic, yet in FCPS and MCPS and Arlington there is a push to get all 8th graders to take algebra and have 6th graders take it as well.
More kids are taking AP classes than when you were a kid.

So basically, you perspective is skewed and things are more academic so parents want their kids to get even further ahead and they use tutoring to help.

No... the actual foundations were stronger in the past. Yes, there are more AP classes, but they are now much easier to pass and the requirements have been watered down. You are deluding yourself if you think that kids are more "academic" now. It is a veneer.

Agreed. For example, AP precalc is easier and covers less material than a traditional precalc class. Both AP English classes at our kids' school are so "difficult" that they barely have time to read and discuss one whole novel from cover to cover--yes, no exaggeration and pathetic.

AP tests in the past were meant for serious students so the rigor was much higher. Now it's meant for volume to sell more tests. At our kids' public hs, the "normal" course for a few subjects is the AP version (including the English classes mentioned above), which is why some of the classes are taught at a sped level for the kids who can't keep up; yet the vast majority of the kids still passed the AP test because it's so easy.

I think many of the parents who think the schools around the DMV didn't go to very good high schools themselves. We've known (through sports and other activities) kids that have attended many of the top schools in the area, and after talking with parents, I can 100% say that many parents have no clue what a good hs should be like.

My IB English classes in high school more than 20 years ago weren’t any harder than today’s courses. I think we read two novels junior year and two senior year. Wrote only a couple essays junior year and none senior year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you were a kid, college wasn’t an assumption. Now, more kids are going to college, so there is a push to make things more academic.
You see it as not academic, yet in FCPS and MCPS and Arlington there is a push to get all 8th graders to take algebra and have 6th graders take it as well.
More kids are taking AP classes than when you were a kid.

So basically, you perspective is skewed and things are more academic so parents want their kids to get even further ahead and they use tutoring to help.

No... the actual foundations were stronger in the past. Yes, there are more AP classes, but they are now much easier to pass and the requirements have been watered down. You are deluding yourself if you think that kids are more "academic" now. It is a veneer.

Agreed. For example, AP precalc is easier and covers less material than a traditional precalc class. Both AP English classes at our kids' school are so "difficult" that they barely have time to read and discuss one whole novel from cover to cover--yes, no exaggeration and pathetic.

AP tests in the past were meant for serious students so the rigor was much higher. Now it's meant for volume to sell more tests. At our kids' public hs, the "normal" course for a few subjects is the AP version (including the English classes mentioned above), which is why some of the classes are taught at a sped level for the kids who can't keep up; yet the vast majority of the kids still passed the AP test because it's so easy.

I think many of the parents who think the schools around the DMV didn't go to very good high schools themselves. We've known (through sports and other activities) kids that have attended many of the top schools in the area, and after talking with parents, I can 100% say that many parents have no clue what a good hs should be like.

My IB English classes in high school more than 20 years ago weren’t any harder than today’s courses. I think we read two novels junior year and two senior year. Wrote only a couple essays junior year and none senior year.

I’m an IB lit teacher. Our students read 14 works (defined as a full novel/play or an extensive collection of poetry) over the course of 2 years. They write an in-class essay every 3 weeks.

By your description of IB 20 years ago, I’d say current students are doing a lot more!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When you were a kid, college wasn’t an assumption. Now, more kids are going to college, so there is a push to make things more academic.
You see it as not academic, yet in FCPS and MCPS and Arlington there is a push to get all 8th graders to take algebra and have 6th graders take it as well.
More kids are taking AP classes than when you were a kid.

So basically, you perspective is skewed and things are more academic so parents want their kids to get even further ahead and they use tutoring to help.

There are even more higher education opportunities than 25 years ago. There’s a college out there for anyone who wants to go. That makes certain types of parents pushing to have their child accepted to a top school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My take is that public school used to be about indoctrination (civics, ethics/morality, family values, respect, order) along with providing supervision for children and an acceptable baseline of education (reading, writing, ‘rithmetic).

I’m not so sure what public school is for now. Childcare and some basic level (maybe) of socialization?

Not everywhere. Certainly not where I was from.