vent about summative/formative

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If he's doing really well on formatives and his summatives don't reflect that level of mastery of the material, I'd say you really have a different problem than not enough assignments to pad the grade. I'd be wondering why my child can't perform as expected on the summatives.

What the teacher said above is a big part of the issue ^^. I would argue that getting 75% on a summative that consists of 4 multiple choice questions could mean they didn't master it, or it could be just bad luck because they misinterpreted a tricky question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The true issue is that there are limited questions on the assessments. Let’s say there are only 4 questions. Your options are to get a 100, 75, or 50 and below. If we are trying to mastery for a particular skill or standard then there should not be just one question on the skill or standard on the assessment. That is not a true reflection of mastery. Yet, we can not add tot he test so we can’t give more questions other than the district made test. It is a lose lose situation. Take every opportunity for retake is what I tell my families.

- a teacher

+1
DS struggled insanely last year in geometry becuase the tests had very few questions on them so missing anythign would tank the grade. Make-ups were even shorter so worse.

[Anonymous]

Was another thread on DCUM last week or week before about more teachers giving short tests/few questions. Some who said they were teachers said was because they are required to give extra time to certain 504/IEP students and so if give short test that takes only 30 minutes, then allows time for other kids to take the 60-90 that they are allowed by their plans. If give longer tests like 60 minutes and more questions, then would need to find 120-180 minutes for the 504/IEP plan students and said becomes impossible. It does set up scenario where if miss 1 problem get a C.

[Anonymous]

I teach at the college level and agree that the issue is summative assessments that are too short. The terms are annoying, but summative is just another word for a high stakes assessment like a test and formative is the same as low stakes assignments like homework or short in class exercises. A kid who only does well on the low stakes assignments but does poorly on tests should not get a high grade in the class. Low stakes assignments are usually practice where you can use your class notes and things and go over them together. You’re on your own for tests and usually have to synthesize the information. But one question wrong should not result in a C or even a B. That’s poor test design.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The true issue is that there are limited questions on the assessments. Let’s say there are only 4 questions. Your options are to get a 100, 75, or 50 and below. If we are trying to mastery for a particular skill or standard then there should not be just one question on the skill or standard on the assessment. That is not a true reflection of mastery. Yet, we can not add tot he test so we can’t give more questions other than the district made test. It is a lose lose situation. Take every opportunity for retake is what I tell my families.

- a teacher

What types of a Summative are being given directly by the County for a class that would only have 4 questions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This formative / summative crapola was foisted on teachers years ago. People in charge of instruction at Gatehouse and Willow Sprimgs who read some trendy education books decided this was the way to go! Teachers had absolutely no say in the matter. Parents were rightly befuddled and still are! Then we had to endure the no homework fad, and unlimited retakes so all grades can meet parental expectations. Grave disservice to students. Many of us were relieved to step away or retire.

Teachers can set the weighting of Summatives and Formatives in the overall class grading.

No, they can't. For HS, its an all-FCPS policy.

I stand corrected.

It appears to be: 25% Formative, 5% Homework, 70% Summative


To the OP, there will be more Summatives. Your kid should retake their one and only Summative because they can get up to a 90% on the retake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If he's doing really well on formatives and his summatives don't reflect that level of mastery of the material, I'd say you really have a different problem than not enough assignments to pad the grade. I'd be wondering why my child can't perform as expected on the summatives.

What the teacher said above is a big part of the issue ^^. I would argue that getting 75% on a summative that consists of 4 multiple choice questions could mean they didn't master it, or it could be just bad luck because they misinterpreted a tricky question.

four was just an example. We have no idea whether this was an issue for OP's child. If there were so few questions that a single missed question resulted in a C, I bet there would be a lot of different sorts of complaints and I bet that would have been OP's complaint, because it is hard when each question is worth 25% of your grade and it's an all or nothing without any partial credit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The true issue is that there are limited questions on the assessments. Let’s say there are only 4 questions. Your options are to get a 100, 75, or 50 and below. If we are trying to mastery for a particular skill or standard then there should not be just one question on the skill or standard on the assessment. That is not a true reflection of mastery. Yet, we can not add tot he test so we can’t give more questions other than the district made test. It is a lose lose situation. Take every opportunity for retake is what I tell my families.

- a teacher

What types of a Summative are being given directly by the County for a class that would only have 4 questions?

My kid has a lot of summative tests with 5 questions so if you miss one you have an 80%. It drives me nuts because when I took math back in the day you could get partial credit if you just made a stupid mistake, but now it's all graded by the computer so scores are all or nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If he's doing really well on formatives and his summatives don't reflect that level of mastery of the material, I'd say you really have a different problem than not enough assignments to pad the grade. I'd be wondering why my child can't perform as expected on the summatives.

What the teacher said above is a big part of the issue ^^. I would argue that getting 75% on a summative that consists of 4 multiple choice questions could mean they didn't master it, or it could be just bad luck because they misinterpreted a tricky question.

four was just an example. We have no idea whether this was an issue for OP's child. If there were so few questions that a single missed question resulted in a C, I bet there would be a lot of different sorts of complaints and I bet that would have been OP's complaint, because it is hard when each question is worth 25% of your grade and it's an all or nothing without any partial credit.

The big issue is that now there's often no partial credit because it's scored by the computer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The true issue is that there are limited questions on the assessments. Let’s say there are only 4 questions. Your options are to get a 100, 75, or 50 and below. If we are trying to mastery for a particular skill or standard then there should not be just one question on the skill or standard on the assessment. That is not a true reflection of mastery. Yet, we can not add tot he test so we can’t give more questions other than the district made test. It is a lose lose situation. Take every opportunity for retake is what I tell my families.

- a teacher

What types of a Summative are being given directly by the County for a class that would only have 4 questions?

LOL! Do you have a high schooler? Most of the non-AP classes have these computerized, super short tests.

[Anonymous]

Is there any way to protest a short summative rather than saying "it drives me crazy- he got an 80"?

[Anonymous]

I was an elementary teacher when teachers had freedom to teach.
It sounds like everything is scripted and controlled now so that everyone gets exactly the same instruction.

I taught first grade for years. Each class was different. There were different learning styles and different levels of achievement. I did not teach exactly the same thing in exactly the same way from year to year.

My goals and objectives were the same, but the kids were different. Sometimes, I needed to repeat a lesson or two. Some kids moved fast and some kids moved slower. So, I adapted lessons to them. I also shifted kids around as needed and as they progressed. Some kids went in spurts. Some were slow and steady. And, occasionally, some plateaued for a while. I was able to adjust and push and pull as needed.

Are teachers no longer able to do this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was an elementary teacher when teachers had freedom to teach.
It sounds like everything is scripted and controlled now so that everyone gets exactly the same instruction.

I taught first grade for years. Each class was different. There were different learning styles and different levels of achievement. I did not teach exactly the same thing in exactly the same way from year to year.

My goals and objectives were the same, but the kids were different. Sometimes, I needed to repeat a lesson or two. Some kids moved fast and some kids moved slower. So, I adapted lessons to them. I also shifted kids around as needed and as they progressed. Some kids went in spurts. Some were slow and steady. And, occasionally, some plateaued for a while. I was able to adjust and push and pull as needed.

Are teachers no longer able to do this?

According to my middle schooler, the teachers don't teach. They show a video or possibly some power point slides for 5 minutes or less. Then the kids have worksheets to work on. If there is something that the kids don't understand while working on their work sheets they can ask a question and the teacher will explain ( teach) . I encourage my kid to ask a lot of questions. This is for honors level MS courses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The true issue is that there are limited questions on the assessments. Let’s say there are only 4 questions. Your options are to get a 100, 75, or 50 and below. If we are trying to mastery for a particular skill or standard then there should not be just one question on the skill or standard on the assessment. That is not a true reflection of mastery. Yet, we can not add tot he test so we can’t give more questions other than the district made test. It is a lose lose situation. Take every opportunity for retake is what I tell my families.

- a teacher

What types of a Summative are being given directly by the County for a class that would only have 4 questions?

The ones for math have 10-12.

I think they’re trash, so my team has opted to give them as a formative “practice tests” in class the day before, assign corrections as homework, and then write our own paper summative where we can do partial credit, short answer, have kids fully graph, restrict calculator usage, etc.

I realize that not all teams do that though. My child’s own teacher is using them as the sole summative assignments and it drives me insane. The questions are terrible and they’re too short to be indicative of understanding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Was another thread on DCUM last week or week before about more teachers giving short tests/few questions. Some who said they were teachers said was because they are required to give extra time to certain 504/IEP students and so if give short test that takes only 30 minutes, then allows time for other kids to take the 60-90 that they are allowed by their plans. If give longer tests like 60 minutes and more questions, then would need to find 120-180 minutes for the 504/IEP plan students and said becomes impossible. It does set up scenario where if miss 1 problem get a C.

Sure but my (planned) 30 minute math tests are still 15-20 questions (10 relatively straight forward “solve” or “graph”, and 5 slightly higher problems requiring application vs wrote procedure.

The 10 question ones from the county are finished in 15 minutes by all.