Is it important that kids take AMP 6+/7+/Algebra 1 in MS after Math 5, and how hard is it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please do not overthink the various math pathways.

You need to get your daughter a tutor, because math is the topic amongst all others that builds upon itself, year after year. A lot of parents don't get this, but they cannot allow their kids to pass every grade with gaps in their conceptual reasoning in math. It's not like missing a concept in English, or a concept in science or music; those will be revisited and re-explained and kids will pick them up at some point. Math is a lot more unforgiving, and for private high school admissions or college admissions, it's still used as an indicator of intelligence, even for Humanities majors.

So either you tutor, or you hire a tutor. The tutor can't just provide answers to homework. You pay them to go back to basics and test the solidity of her math foundation, and to re-teach anything she's fuzzy on. And then you pay them to teach ahead.

For MCPS, just enroll her in whatever the school allows that's most advanced. They're going to gate-keep the fastest tracks anyway, since she didn't make compacted math, so there won't be any "hard" class. Maybe a "hard-for-her" class, but you're going to rectify that with a tutor. And don't let summer brain drain take hold. She needs to read and exercise her math skills in the summer as well.

One of my children made it to AP Calc BC as a senior, despite a specific math disability (dyscalculia). He was tutored by me and then I hired tutors. Your kid can apply herself and achieve too.

We definitely can't afford to pay for math tutoring for years, but could potentially swing it at specific key times. When would make the most sense? What are the most important skills to make sure she has a thorough understanding of, and when?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please do not overthink the various math pathways.

You need to get your daughter a tutor, because math is the topic amongst all others that builds upon itself, year after year. A lot of parents don't get this, but they cannot allow their kids to pass every grade with gaps in their conceptual reasoning in math. It's not like missing a concept in English, or a concept in science or music; those will be revisited and re-explained and kids will pick them up at some point. Math is a lot more unforgiving, and for private high school admissions or college admissions, it's still used as an indicator of intelligence, even for Humanities majors.

So either you tutor, or you hire a tutor. The tutor can't just provide answers to homework. You pay them to go back to basics and test the solidity of her math foundation, and to re-teach anything she's fuzzy on. And then you pay them to teach ahead.

For MCPS, just enroll her in whatever the school allows that's most advanced. They're going to gate-keep the fastest tracks anyway, since she didn't make compacted math, so there won't be any "hard" class. Maybe a "hard-for-her" class, but you're going to rectify that with a tutor. And don't let summer brain drain take hold. She needs to read and exercise her math skills in the summer as well.

One of my children made it to AP Calc BC as a senior, despite a specific math disability (dyscalculia). He was tutored by me and then I hired tutors. Your kid can apply herself and achieve too.

We definitely can't afford to pay for math tutoring for years, but could potentially swing it at specific key times. When would make the most sense? What are the most important skills to make sure she has a thorough understanding of, and when?

She needs to learn it all. It doesn’t seem like she needs a tutor now. She needs to slow down so she’s not making careless mistakes and she needs to practice what is being taught. Why are you trying to rush ahead?

[Anonymous]

Is studying calculus that hard? I don't even think calculus this math subject is hard. They are just formulas and plug in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is your daughter making B’s on some assignments or B’s overall in the class? My daughter was scoring in the 70th percentile of MAP in 4th grade and was selected for compacted, but were told she was on the bubble. She struggled a bit in compacted (made a B overall) so took AMP 6+ and is now taking AMP 7+. She’s making As and there is some griping with HW assignments (she doesn’t like math either), but she’s not struggling. I don’t think the AMP pathway is that hard. I think you should accelerate if you have the opportunity to catch the AMP 6+ on-ramp. They could always drop down a level if it doesn’t work out.

She's at a B overall so far but I would say roughly half of her errors are just mistakes on things she genuinely knows-- based purely on knowledge I think she'd probably get As overall but still a fair number of Bs on assignments because there are some things she doesn't fully grasp when they're first taught.

I think PPs have tried to put this kindly, but it may require spelling out for you: Compacted math is not for students who are Bs overall and are in the 70s percentile-wise on the MAP-M. It is not for your daughter. Stop pushing her. She doesn't "genuinely know things" if she keeps getting them wrong. If you want her to do better, sure, get her a tutor. If she's not into STEM, this is even less relevant, if she decides later that she wants to do STEM and her math skills improve, assess things later.

I actually thought compacted math was for kids 85th or 90th percentile at least. Please don't push your kid into this and ruin things for the kids in compacted who are able to keep up and require even more challenge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please do not overthink the various math pathways.

You need to get your daughter a tutor, because math is the topic amongst all others that builds upon itself, year after year. A lot of parents don't get this, but they cannot allow their kids to pass every grade with gaps in their conceptual reasoning in math. It's not like missing a concept in English, or a concept in science or music; those will be revisited and re-explained and kids will pick them up at some point. Math is a lot more unforgiving, and for private high school admissions or college admissions, it's still used as an indicator of intelligence, even for Humanities majors.

So either you tutor, or you hire a tutor. The tutor can't just provide answers to homework. You pay them to go back to basics and test the solidity of her math foundation, and to re-teach anything she's fuzzy on. And then you pay them to teach ahead.

For MCPS, just enroll her in whatever the school allows that's most advanced. They're going to gate-keep the fastest tracks anyway, since she didn't make compacted math, so there won't be any "hard" class. Maybe a "hard-for-her" class, but you're going to rectify that with a tutor. And don't let summer brain drain take hold. She needs to read and exercise her math skills in the summer as well.

One of my children made it to AP Calc BC as a senior, despite a specific math disability (dyscalculia). He was tutored by me and then I hired tutors. Your kid can apply herself and achieve too.

We definitely can't afford to pay for math tutoring for years, but could potentially swing it at specific key times. When would make the most sense? What are the most important skills to make sure she has a thorough understanding of, and when?

There are affordable online options. We pay under $20 an hour.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is your daughter making B’s on some assignments or B’s overall in the class? My daughter was scoring in the 70th percentile of MAP in 4th grade and was selected for compacted, but were told she was on the bubble. She struggled a bit in compacted (made a B overall) so took AMP 6+ and is now taking AMP 7+. She’s making As and there is some griping with HW assignments (she doesn’t like math either), but she’s not struggling. I don’t think the AMP pathway is that hard. I think you should accelerate if you have the opportunity to catch the AMP 6+ on-ramp. They could always drop down a level if it doesn’t work out.

She's at a B overall so far but I would say roughly half of her errors are just mistakes on things she genuinely knows-- based purely on knowledge I think she'd probably get As overall but still a fair number of Bs on assignments because there are some things she doesn't fully grasp when they're first taught.

I think PPs have tried to put this kindly, but it may require spelling out for you: Compacted math is not for students who are Bs overall and are in the 70s percentile-wise on the MAP-M. It is not for your daughter. Stop pushing her. She doesn't "genuinely know things" if she keeps getting them wrong. If you want her to do better, sure, get her a tutor. If she's not into STEM, this is even less relevant, if she decides later that she wants to do STEM and her math skills improve, assess things later.

I actually thought compacted math was for kids 85th or 90th percentile at least. Please don't push your kid into this and ruin things for the kids in compacted who are able to keep up and require even more challenge.

My gut instinct is indeed not to push her in the future (we haven't been up to this point either) but I just wanted to check to make sure that's not a mistake.

I definitely don't think she needs acceleration in math, but I was getting the sense that any reasonably smart kid who isn't on track for algebra in MS and calculus in HS is considered "behind" and at a significant disadvantage to the other kids looking forward... basically that if she takes regular Math 6 in middle school that's almost a remedial track. People are talking about Algebra 1 in 9th grade as being below-level compared to the student body as a whole (let alone kids who are gifted/high-scorers on the humanities side of things-- most of her enriched literacy class is also in compacted math and would be 2 years ahead of her if she doesn't do 6+/etc in middle school.) is that not true? I've been following recent posts and am still really confused about all this.

I just want to make sure I'm not letting future-her down if there's a high school magnet or good college she wants to get into and being a "grade-level" (which maybe secretly actually means below-level) math kid turns out to be the thing that holds her back despite her strengths in humanities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is your daughter making B’s on some assignments or B’s overall in the class? My daughter was scoring in the 70th percentile of MAP in 4th grade and was selected for compacted, but were told she was on the bubble. She struggled a bit in compacted (made a B overall) so took AMP 6+ and is now taking AMP 7+. She’s making As and there is some griping with HW assignments (she doesn’t like math either), but she’s not struggling. I don’t think the AMP pathway is that hard. I think you should accelerate if you have the opportunity to catch the AMP 6+ on-ramp. They could always drop down a level if it doesn’t work out.

She's at a B overall so far but I would say roughly half of her errors are just mistakes on things she genuinely knows-- based purely on knowledge I think she'd probably get As overall but still a fair number of Bs on assignments because there are some things she doesn't fully grasp when they're first taught.

I think PPs have tried to put this kindly, but it may require spelling out for you: Compacted math is not for students who are Bs overall and are in the 70s percentile-wise on the MAP-M. It is not for your daughter. Stop pushing her. She doesn't "genuinely know things" if she keeps getting them wrong. If you want her to do better, sure, get her a tutor. If she's not into STEM, this is even less relevant, if she decides later that she wants to do STEM and her math skills improve, assess things later.

I actually thought compacted math was for kids 85th or 90th percentile at least. Please don't push your kid into this and ruin things for the kids in compacted who are able to keep up and require even more challenge.

My gut instinct is indeed not to push her in the future (we haven't been up to this point either) but I just wanted to check to make sure that's not a mistake.

I definitely don't think she needs acceleration in math, but I was getting the sense that any reasonably smart kid who isn't on track for algebra in MS and calculus in HS is considered "behind" and at a significant disadvantage to the other kids looking forward... basically that if she takes regular Math 6 in middle school that's almost a remedial track. People are talking about Algebra 1 in 9th grade as being below-level compared to the student body as a whole (let alone kids who are gifted/high-scorers on the humanities side of things-- most of her enriched literacy class is also in compacted math and would be 2 years ahead of her if she doesn't do 6+/etc in middle school.) is that not true? I've been following recent posts and am still really confused about all this.

I just want to make sure I'm not letting future-her down if there's a high school magnet or good college she wants to get into and being a "grade-level" (which maybe secretly actually means below-level) math kid turns out to be the thing that holds her back despite her strengths in humanities.

Honestly, if you want to buy an insurance to assure she can switch to STEM major in the future if she wants to, get her a tutor and see if there's a chance to accelerate, or otherwise it will be too late to accelerate in HS or college. I've seen too many kids failing in engineering majors because of weak math foundations. On the other hand, if you and your DD are comfortable with humanity major and think this is definitely what she wants, what she likes and what she is good at, I don't see on-grade math a problem at all. No one needs to be perfect on everything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please do not overthink the various math pathways.

You need to get your daughter a tutor, because math is the topic amongst all others that builds upon itself, year after year. A lot of parents don't get this, but they cannot allow their kids to pass every grade with gaps in their conceptual reasoning in math. It's not like missing a concept in English, or a concept in science or music; those will be revisited and re-explained and kids will pick them up at some point. Math is a lot more unforgiving, and for private high school admissions or college admissions, it's still used as an indicator of intelligence, even for Humanities majors.

So either you tutor, or you hire a tutor. The tutor can't just provide answers to homework. You pay them to go back to basics and test the solidity of her math foundation, and to re-teach anything she's fuzzy on. And then you pay them to teach ahead.

For MCPS, just enroll her in whatever the school allows that's most advanced. They're going to gate-keep the fastest tracks anyway, since she didn't make compacted math, so there won't be any "hard" class. Maybe a "hard-for-her" class, but you're going to rectify that with a tutor. And don't let summer brain drain take hold. She needs to read and exercise her math skills in the summer as well.

One of my children made it to AP Calc BC as a senior, despite a specific math disability (dyscalculia). He was tutored by me and then I hired tutors. Your kid can apply herself and achieve too.

We definitely can't afford to pay for math tutoring for years, but could potentially swing it at specific key times. When would make the most sense? What are the most important skills to make sure she has a thorough understanding of, and when?

PP you replied to. She needs to learn everything with regularity, OP. If you don't want to pay someone right away (and I understand that), then you or another household member or adult need to do it for free. Every day, she shows you what she did, and you check for understanding and clear up confusion. A few minutes, not more. Once a week, you pull up a few videos from Khan academy and sit down for a review session, exercises, etc and double-check that what she got wrong during the week has been truly understood.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, me again: wanted to add that in math there are no secrets and no shortcuts. Learning needs to be incremental and rigorous. A lot of parents do nothing during the school year and then try to catch-up in the summer with workbooks, for ex. You're going to make her suffer needlessly if you do that, because her brain will have solidified bad habits that no one corrected for months. It will take her additional effort to un-learn all that stuff to re-learn the right reasonings. Please don't do that to your daughter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t accelerate. My son was recommended for Algebra 1 in 6th. In 9th he barely made it through 1 month of Hon Precalculus, stepped down to regular Precalculus made a C. Took Calculus with Apps in 10th made a B and now is failing AP Calculus Ab in 11th. Better slow than fast. I regret pushing him too fast. You daughter may end up being the opposite of my son and become a math wizard in high school.

Wrong thread.
No one here is talking about Algebra in 6th

+1 OP is talking about whether it's ok to take Algebra along the "normal path" in 9th. Which of course it's fine. The kid wouldn't be allowed to apply to the Blair STEM magnet (if it still exists by that time), because you need to have Algebra by 8th to be eliglble to apply under current criteria, but sounds like her kid is more interested in the humanities and IB programs, which I don't think have that Algebra by 8th requirement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is your daughter making B’s on some assignments or B’s overall in the class? My daughter was scoring in the 70th percentile of MAP in 4th grade and was selected for compacted, but were told she was on the bubble. She struggled a bit in compacted (made a B overall) so took AMP 6+ and is now taking AMP 7+. She’s making As and there is some griping with HW assignments (she doesn’t like math either), but she’s not struggling. I don’t think the AMP pathway is that hard. I think you should accelerate if you have the opportunity to catch the AMP 6+ on-ramp. They could always drop down a level if it doesn’t work out.

She's at a B overall so far but I would say roughly half of her errors are just mistakes on things she genuinely knows-- based purely on knowledge I think she'd probably get As overall but still a fair number of Bs on assignments because there are some things she doesn't fully grasp when they're first taught.

I think PPs have tried to put this kindly, but it may require spelling out for you: Compacted math is not for students who are Bs overall and are in the 70s percentile-wise on the MAP-M. It is not for your daughter. Stop pushing her. She doesn't "genuinely know things" if she keeps getting them wrong. If you want her to do better, sure, get her a tutor. If she's not into STEM, this is even less relevant, if she decides later that she wants to do STEM and her math skills improve, assess things later.

I actually thought compacted math was for kids 85th or 90th percentile at least. Please don't push your kid into this and ruin things for the kids in compacted who are able to keep up and require even more challenge.

My gut instinct is indeed not to push her in the future (we haven't been up to this point either) but I just wanted to check to make sure that's not a mistake.

I definitely don't think she needs acceleration in math, but I was getting the sense that any reasonably smart kid who isn't on track for algebra in MS and calculus in HS is considered "behind" and at a significant disadvantage to the other kids looking forward... basically that if she takes regular Math 6 in middle school that's almost a remedial track. People are talking about Algebra 1 in 9th grade as being below-level compared to the student body as a whole (let alone kids who are gifted/high-scorers on the humanities side of things-- most of her enriched literacy class is also in compacted math and would be 2 years ahead of her if she doesn't do 6+/etc in middle school.) is that not true? I've been following recent posts and am still really confused about all this.

I just want to make sure I'm not letting future-her down if there's a high school magnet or good college she wants to get into and being a "grade-level" (which maybe secretly actually means below-level) math kid turns out to be the thing that holds her back despite her strengths in humanities.

Honestly, if you want to buy an insurance to assure she can switch to STEM major in the future if she wants to, get her a tutor and see if there's a chance to accelerate, or otherwise it will be too late to accelerate in HS or college. I've seen too many kids failing in engineering majors because of weak math foundations. On the other hand, if you and your DD are comfortable with humanity major and think this is definitely what she wants, what she likes and what she is good at, I don't see on-grade math a problem at all. No one needs to be perfect on everything.

You don’t need to major in STEM to get a STEM job. Look at the data. More people are employed in STEM jobs that didn’t get a STEM degree than with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is your daughter making B’s on some assignments or B’s overall in the class? My daughter was scoring in the 70th percentile of MAP in 4th grade and was selected for compacted, but were told she was on the bubble. She struggled a bit in compacted (made a B overall) so took AMP 6+ and is now taking AMP 7+. She’s making As and there is some griping with HW assignments (she doesn’t like math either), but she’s not struggling. I don’t think the AMP pathway is that hard. I think you should accelerate if you have the opportunity to catch the AMP 6+ on-ramp. They could always drop down a level if it doesn’t work out.

She's at a B overall so far but I would say roughly half of her errors are just mistakes on things she genuinely knows-- based purely on knowledge I think she'd probably get As overall but still a fair number of Bs on assignments because there are some things she doesn't fully grasp when they're first taught.

I think PPs have tried to put this kindly, but it may require spelling out for you: Compacted math is not for students who are Bs overall and are in the 70s percentile-wise on the MAP-M. It is not for your daughter. Stop pushing her. She doesn't "genuinely know things" if she keeps getting them wrong. If you want her to do better, sure, get her a tutor. If she's not into STEM, this is even less relevant, if she decides later that she wants to do STEM and her math skills improve, assess things later.

I actually thought compacted math was for kids 85th or 90th percentile at least. Please don't push your kid into this and ruin things for the kids in compacted who are able to keep up and require even more challenge.

My gut instinct is indeed not to push her in the future (we haven't been up to this point either) but I just wanted to check to make sure that's not a mistake.

I definitely don't think she needs acceleration in math, but I was getting the sense that any reasonably smart kid who isn't on track for algebra in MS and calculus in HS is considered "behind" and at a significant disadvantage to the other kids looking forward... basically that if she takes regular Math 6 in middle school that's almost a remedial track. People are talking about Algebra 1 in 9th grade as being below-level compared to the student body as a whole (let alone kids who are gifted/high-scorers on the humanities side of things-- most of her enriched literacy class is also in compacted math and would be 2 years ahead of her if she doesn't do 6+/etc in middle school.) is that not true? I've been following recent posts and am still really confused about all this.

I just want to make sure I'm not letting future-her down if there's a high school magnet or good college she wants to get into and being a "grade-level" (which maybe secretly actually means below-level) math kid turns out to be the thing that holds her back despite her strengths in humanities.

Honestly, if you want to buy an insurance to assure she can switch to STEM major in the future if she wants to, get her a tutor and see if there's a chance to accelerate, or otherwise it will be too late to accelerate in HS or college. I've seen too many kids failing in engineering majors because of weak math foundations. On the other hand, if you and your DD are comfortable with humanity major and think this is definitely what she wants, what she likes and what she is good at, I don't see on-grade math a problem at all. No one needs to be perfect on everything.

You don’t need to major in STEM to get a STEM job. Look at the data. More people are employed in STEM jobs that didn’t get a STEM degree than with.

In my experience, no. No one in my field can land a job from non-STEM background. Even the communication and outreach specialists have to have at least a STEM-associated certificate or something equivalent.

[Anonymous]

Anyone else find it funny that the title of this thread is basically 6, 7?

[Anonymous]

70%ile is on the bubble between on-level and 1-year advanced.

It's up to your daughter to decide is she can work a little longer and harder to get on the advanced track and succeed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone else find it funny that the title of this thread is basically 6, 7?

^^^° this person understands the essence of middle school.