Harvard Psychologist argues for admissions reform

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OMG they can accept whomever they wish. When will people realize that? Start your own uni if you want to determine who gets to attend.

Why people keep making this argument again and again? No, they can’t as long as they receive federal funding!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many studies have shown that the tests, contrary to myth, are not racially biased; they are not just an indicator of socioeconomic status; they are predictive all the way up the scale; they predict not just school performance but also life success; and they are not significantly goosed upward by test prep courses.

This has been proved over and over.
There is a direct correlation between SAT test score and MCAT score.

Are they not similar tests. This is like telling me someone who plays the piano may be a better harpsichord player.

[Anonymous]

Many posters are not good at math.

There aren't too many 1600s.

Each year about 1000 achieve 1600.
Each year only about 10K achieve 1550+, that's not even enough for 4 or 5 schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well there's an easy issue with this approach. There's too many 1600s, and if people know they can just get a 1600 and get into Harvard, many people will just retest over and over till they get the score they want.

I’m not sure why that’s a problem. “Oh no, we collected a large number of smart people in one place! How awful!”

[Anonymous]

Test score is very predictive. IB and consulting firms all ask for your test scores, even it's taken years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to hard 80% of their applicants are qualified and would do well at the school, however they are only taking 5%… you can’t pick based on scores alone, they need to pick holistically.

Honestly, schools should meet their needs (eg tuba player, soccer goalie) and then do a lottery for the rest above a certain threshold of SAT, grades, rigor. It has become so ridiculous.

Having quotas for tuba players and soccer goalies and giving them a thumb on the scale sounds ridiculous to me.

The issue is grade inflation and how to bring that down. There is no silver bullet that can replace multi-year academic performance and grit, character. A standardized test that can be taken over and over again for 10 years and some rich people can buy fake diagnosis to take them with unfair time accommodations.

It shouldn't be typical for most good students in a particular school to get straight As in high schools all 3-4 years. One C or several Bs should not be seen as the end of the world either but as a place for growth and learning. Grade 11 grades (junior year) should be the year where grades are the most important. Maybe GPA should be just grade 11 and 1st term of grade 12?

APs and honors classes should not be given "bonus points" because people have an incentive to load up. They should just be looked as measure of rigor, not GPA inflators.

The issue is grade inflation and ruining the value of GPAs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG they can accept whomever they wish. When will people realize that? Start your own uni if you want to determine who gets to attend.

Why people keep making this argument again and again? No, they can’t as long as they receive federal funding!!!

they only get federal funding for doing federal work. not for educating undergrads. harvard has no problem funding undergrad education with their 100k tuition.


but if we no longer what universities to do scientific research, we either have to stand up some other entities or give up on it.

the smallpox vaccine was developed at Harvard in the 1700s and they didnt stop. same as many other universities. they are the center of research in the US.

how they admit their undergrads being tied to this is just weird. the govt can fine them if they want

[Anonymous]

I was a kid who had a lower SAT score because of HHI. My own kid had Khan and other sophisticated online programs that were free or nearly free.

I think the era of SAT = wealth is over.

But talk to me about athletes and legacy before any of the rest of this.

[Anonymous]

Private colleges in theory can admit whoever they want, as long as the practice is not unconstitutional. No one is above the law, even Harvard shall not be allowed to be racist.

[Anonymous]

Federal funding is just a tie to 14th amendment. But I would argue even without that tie, they shall not be allowed to be racist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was a kid who had a lower SAT score because of HHI. My own kid had Khan and other sophisticated online programs that were free or nearly free.

I think the era of SAT = wealth is over.

But talk to me about athletes and legacy before any of the rest of this.

According to the College Board’s own data, scores are still highly correlated with income. (And if you don’t trust their data, why would you trust their exam?)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG they can accept whomever they wish. When will people realize that? Start your own uni if you want to determine who gets to attend.

Why people keep making this argument again and again? No, they can’t as long as they receive federal funding!!!

they only get federal funding for doing federal work. not for educating undergrads. harvard has no problem funding undergrad education with their 100k tuition.


but if we no longer what universities to do scientific research, we either have to stand up some other entities or give up on it.

the smallpox vaccine was developed at Harvard in the 1700s and they didnt stop. same as many other universities. they are the center of research in the US.

how they admit their undergrads being tied to this is just weird. the govt can fine them if they want

If your goal is scientific research, you’re looking at the complete wrong process. You should be worried about graduate admissions. Mind you, we have the top science research departments across the world- and for as much as people give Harvard and others gruff about our bad undergraduate admissions, the students do very well in graduate programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG they can accept whomever they wish. When will people realize that? Start your own uni if you want to determine who gets to attend.

Why people keep making this argument again and again? No, they can’t as long as they receive federal funding!!!

they only get federal funding for doing federal work. not for educating undergrads. harvard has no problem funding undergrad education with their 100k tuition.


but if we no longer what universities to do scientific research, we either have to stand up some other entities or give up on it.

the smallpox vaccine was developed at Harvard in the 1700s and they didnt stop. same as many other universities. they are the center of research in the US.

how they admit their undergrads being tied to this is just weird. the govt can fine them if they want

Have you never heard of the Pell Grant? Or federal student loans? Pretty sure just about every college receives lots of that money.

[Anonymous]

Lake Wobegon where all the kids are above average. Not healthy and that is one problem with what the admissions process has created. There’s no room for error for the kids anymore especially for students aiming for the top schools. There’s something very wrong when a B+ is seen as something that shuts the door to opportunity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG they can accept whomever they wish. When will people realize that? Start your own uni if you want to determine who gets to attend.

Why people keep making this argument again and again? No, they can’t as long as they receive federal funding!!!

they only get federal funding for doing federal work. not for educating undergrads. harvard has no problem funding undergrad education with their 100k tuition.


but if we no longer what universities to do scientific research, we either have to stand up some other entities or give up on it.

the smallpox vaccine was developed at Harvard in the 1700s and they didnt stop. same as many other universities. they are the center of research in the US.

how they admit their undergrads being tied to this is just weird. the govt can fine them if they want

Have you never heard of the Pell Grant? Or federal student loans? Pretty sure just about every college receives lots of that money.

Pell Grants are low and loans are just loans, and are capped. When you sell your house do feel you took government money because the buyer took out a FHA loan?