Long term care insurance

[Anonymous]

This is OP. Got a quote though nationwide for both single and for shared.

Single, 4 years of coverage, starts at $5k a month but compounds 3% a year starting in year one (at age 85 payout would be about $13k a month), $120k life insurance if never used (down dollar for dollar to guaranteed $24k life insurance if max benefits used), indemnity policy with 90 day elimination period (but after claim is approved you get four months of payment lump sum) for $70k-ish if paid in a lump sum or $8400 a year for ten years. Rate is locked.

Shared is eight years with $180k life insurance (or $18k if benefits used). Same other terms for $120k-ish lump sum or about $14,300 a year spread out over ten years.

My mom is now up to $38k a month when you add in her 24/7 caregivers. And she’s needed help for 2.5 years so far although in retrospect I probably should have moved her into assisted living a year earlier. My dad only needed additional care for about a month with cancer because we took care of him at home (although this policy does pay out for family and friend caregivers). If he’d had insurance maybe we would have sought help sooner. Either way I think a four year plan per person is more than enough. I’m actually having them quote me a six year shared.

It’s a ton of money for these policies but this is a potentially catastrophic event that can be somewhat mitigated with the insurance. I’m still on the fence but leaning toward it. Probably panicking because I’m in the thick of it right now. My mom’s cost of care is probably cumulative $500k+ at this point. And that’s at today’s rates. And although she’s been placed into hospice she’s been bouncing back since that last fall (probably due to the 24/7 caregivers).

[Anonymous]

I would rather self-insure, i.e. pay for what we can out of savings and pension. I might look into a trust later to make sure the other spouse is protected as much as possible.

Firstly, I am not sure the value is there in terms of the policies being offered now. You pay in a lot, and it may not cover what you need for as long as you need it.
But the other part of it is the hassle of trying to claim - they are incentivized to deny you. So it means a lot of paperwork, appeals etc etc that I am not sure we will want to go through at that age.

Like many of us my current thinking is that I would prefer to go to Switzerland. But I am also experienced enough to know that many people think that, but few actually do- whether because by the time they want to they are too deteriorated, or because when they get to that situation they find more value in life than they expected- visits from grandchildren or whatever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is OP. Got a quote though nationwide for both single and for shared.

Single, 4 years of coverage, starts at $5k a month but compounds 3% a year starting in year one (at age 85 payout would be about $13k a month), $120k life insurance if never used (down dollar for dollar to guaranteed $24k life insurance if max benefits used), indemnity policy with 90 day elimination period (but after claim is approved you get four months of payment lump sum) for $70k-ish if paid in a lump sum or $8400 a year for ten years. Rate is locked.

Shared is eight years with $180k life insurance (or $18k if benefits used). Same other terms for $120k-ish lump sum or about $14,300 a year spread out over ten years.

My mom is now up to $38k a month when you add in her 24/7 caregivers. And she’s needed help for 2.5 years so far although in retrospect I probably should have moved her into assisted living a year earlier. My dad only needed additional care for about a month with cancer because we took care of him at home (although this policy does pay out for family and friend caregivers). If he’d had insurance maybe we would have sought help sooner. Either way I think a four year plan per person is more than enough. I’m actually having them quote me a six year shared.

It’s a ton of money for these policies but this is a potentially catastrophic event that can be somewhat mitigated with the insurance. I’m still on the fence but leaning toward it. Probably panicking because I’m in the thick of it right now. My mom’s cost of care is probably cumulative $500k+ at this point. And that’s at today’s rates. And although she’s been placed into hospice she’s been bouncing back since that last fall (probably due to the 24/7 caregivers).

I’m really sorry for what you are going thru.

Leaving aside the COLA for now it sounds like this policy costs $70k and pays a max of $240k over 4 years. I guess I’d think about what I could do with that 70k as an alternative.

These questions aren’t easy but if you have the ability to pay a six figure premium I wonder if you are the best candidate for insurance.

[Anonymous]

I purchased LTC in early 30s (now 50s) and pay $900/year for $50k/year coverage. Unlimited coverage period.

I did it because a relative needed rehab care after an accident in their 30s
and LTC would have covered costs for their 6 months of rehab (or in my case…would cover some of the costs as those costs would exceed call it $4500/month though hard to know how normal insurance plays into it).

Figured it’s a small price to pay for some financial backstop and have assets to cover the rest (hopefully).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is OP. Got a quote though nationwide for both single and for shared.

Single, 4 years of coverage, starts at $5k a month but compounds 3% a year starting in year one (at age 85 payout would be about $13k a month), $120k life insurance if never used (down dollar for dollar to guaranteed $24k life insurance if max benefits used), indemnity policy with 90 day elimination period (but after claim is approved you get four months of payment lump sum) for $70k-ish if paid in a lump sum or $8400 a year for ten years. Rate is locked.

Shared is eight years with $180k life insurance (or $18k if benefits used). Same other terms for $120k-ish lump sum or about $14,300 a year spread out over ten years.

My mom is now up to $38k a month when you add in her 24/7 caregivers. And she’s needed help for 2.5 years so far although in retrospect I probably should have moved her into assisted living a year earlier. My dad only needed additional care for about a month with cancer because we took care of him at home (although this policy does pay out for family and friend caregivers). If he’d had insurance maybe we would have sought help sooner. Either way I think a four year plan per person is more than enough. I’m actually having them quote me a six year shared.

It’s a ton of money for these policies but this is a potentially catastrophic event that can be somewhat mitigated with the insurance. I’m still on the fence but leaning toward it. Probably panicking because I’m in the thick of it right now. My mom’s cost of care is probably cumulative $500k+ at this point. And that’s at today’s rates. And although she’s been placed into hospice she’s been bouncing back since that last fall (probably due to the 24/7 caregivers).

I’m really sorry for what you are going thru.

Leaving aside the COLA for now it sounds like this policy costs $70k and pays a max of $240k over 4 years. I guess I’d think about what I could do with that 70k as an alternative.

These questions aren’t easy but if you have the ability to pay a six figure premium I wonder if you are the best candidate for insurance.

It’s $70k for the coverage but the payout would depend on when the coverage was needed. If I didn’t start taking the benefits until age 80 it would pay out $591k if I used all four years due to the 3% compound interest.

If I started taking benefits in the first year the total four year payout would be $251k.

[Anonymous]

OP again- for the 8 year shared plan the payout would be $1.275 million starting at age 80 if all 8 years were used.

Starting that coverage at age 70 would still be a $963k payout. I’m leaning toward the shared plan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I purchased LTC in early 30s (now 50s) and pay $900/year for $50k/year coverage. Unlimited coverage period.

I did it because a relative needed rehab care after an accident in their 30s
and LTC would have covered costs for their 6 months of rehab (or in my case…would cover some of the costs as those costs would exceed call it $4500/month though hard to know how normal insurance plays into it).

Figured it’s a small price to pay for some financial backstop and have assets to cover the rest (hopefully).

50k is like 1 month of skilled nursing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I purchased LTC in early 30s (now 50s) and pay $900/year for $50k/year coverage. Unlimited coverage period.

I did it because a relative needed rehab care after an accident in their 30s
and LTC would have covered costs for their 6 months of rehab (or in my case…would cover some of the costs as those costs would exceed call it $4500/month though hard to know how normal insurance plays into it).

Figured it’s a small price to pay for some financial backstop and have assets to cover the rest (hopefully).

$50k/year covers two months of 24/7 care. So that policy only works if you are not completely disabled.

[Anonymous]

I have a whole life policy from guardian that can be used for long term care. It’s cash value is $300k. It’s not supposed to be a great investment (if I invested the premiums myself, they would make a better return), but I liked that it was something I was putting away myself so my kids and spouse wouldn’t be able to say I was costing them an arm and a leg. I am at risk of a deadly hereditary illness with no cure.

[Anonymous]

My move is going to be to transfer all my assets to my kid before I get incapacitated and then just go into whatever facility is covered by Medicaid. Or die abroad and pay for cheaper in home care there. There is zero way I am saving up a nest egg that goes to futile end of life care instead of my kid. Or heck even to my cat.

[Anonymous]

I'm 60 & I have had it since I was 40, my mother had it and it was so helpful. Paid for her care in a memory unit. It was easy to access and was a life saver.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is OP. Got a quote though nationwide for both single and for shared.

Single, 4 years of coverage, starts at $5k a month but compounds 3% a year starting in year one (at age 85 payout would be about $13k a month), $120k life insurance if never used (down dollar for dollar to guaranteed $24k life insurance if max benefits used), indemnity policy with 90 day elimination period (but after claim is approved you get four months of payment lump sum) for $70k-ish if paid in a lump sum or $8400 a year for ten years. Rate is locked.

Shared is eight years with $180k life insurance (or $18k if benefits used). Same other terms for $120k-ish lump sum or about $14,300 a year spread out over ten years.

My mom is now up to $38k a month when you add in her 24/7 caregivers. And she’s needed help for 2.5 years so far although in retrospect I probably should have moved her into assisted living a year earlier. My dad only needed additional care for about a month with cancer because we took care of him at home (although this policy does pay out for family and friend caregivers). If he’d had insurance maybe we would have sought help sooner. Either way I think a four year plan per person is more than enough. I’m actually having them quote me a six year shared.

It’s a ton of money for these policies but this is a potentially catastrophic event that can be somewhat mitigated with the insurance. I’m still on the fence but leaning toward it. Probably panicking because I’m in the thick of it right now. My mom’s cost of care is probably cumulative $500k+ at this point. And that’s at today’s rates. And although she’s been placed into hospice she’s been bouncing back since that last fall (probably due to the 24/7 caregivers).

I’m really sorry for what you are going thru.

Leaving aside the COLA for now it sounds like this policy costs $70k and pays a max of $240k over 4 years. I guess I’d think about what I could do with that 70k as an alternative.

These questions aren’t easy but if you have the ability to pay a six figure premium I wonder if you are the best candidate for insurance.

It’s $70k for the coverage but the payout would depend on when the coverage was needed. If I didn’t start taking the benefits until age 80 it would pay out $591k if I used all four years due to the 3% compound interest.

If I started taking benefits in the first year the total four year payout would be $251k.

I get it. My point was just that if you are 52 then that money would grow to about $465k by 80 if you make 7% returns on it (which isn’t guaranteed but isn’t a crazy aggressive assumption either).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I purchased LTC in early 30s (now 50s) and pay $900/year for $50k/year coverage. Unlimited coverage period.

I did it because a relative needed rehab care after an accident in their 30s
and LTC would have covered costs for their 6 months of rehab (or in my case…would cover some of the costs as those costs would exceed call it $4500/month though hard to know how normal insurance plays into it).

Figured it’s a small price to pay for some financial backstop and have assets to cover the rest (hopefully).

That is not a big payout and you’ve been paying for 20 years? If you took that same money and just invested it by the time you needed it I don’t know how much of a difference it would be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I purchased LTC in early 30s (now 50s) and pay $900/year for $50k/year coverage. Unlimited coverage period.

I did it because a relative needed rehab care after an accident in their 30s
and LTC would have covered costs for their 6 months of rehab (or in my case…would cover some of the costs as those costs would exceed call it $4500/month though hard to know how normal insurance plays into it).

Figured it’s a small price to pay for some financial backstop and have assets to cover the rest (hopefully).

That is not a big payout and you’ve been paying for 20 years? If you took that same money and just invested it by the time you needed it I don’t know how much of a difference it would be.

Because you assume it’s only paying out when you are 70+ vs at 35 (hence the accident example).

This is what people keep ignoring about LTC…it covers you at any age.

How much do you pay for car insurance when you never have an accident, homeowners when you never file a claim?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I purchased LTC in early 30s (now 50s) and pay $900/year for $50k/year coverage. Unlimited coverage period.

I did it because a relative needed rehab care after an accident in their 30s
and LTC would have covered costs for their 6 months of rehab (or in my case…would cover some of the costs as those costs would exceed call it $4500/month though hard to know how normal insurance plays into it).

Figured it’s a small price to pay for some financial backstop and have assets to cover the rest (hopefully).

That is not a big payout and you’ve been paying for 20 years? If you took that same money and just invested it by the time you needed it I don’t know how much of a difference it would be.

Because you assume it’s only paying out when you are 70+ vs at 35 (hence the accident example).

This is what people keep ignoring about LTC…it covers you at any age.

How much do you pay for car insurance when you never have an accident, homeowners when you never file a claim?

The likelihood is much higher that you’re gonna have a car accident or homeowner issue when you’re younger than that you’re gonna need LTC.