Are “open-concept” office plans inherently misogynistic ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This goes beyond period products to any private actions a person wishes to keep private: medications come to mind. The open floor concept is just bad for privacy all around. If a workplace wants to organize themselves like this, for ease of team work and camaraderie, for example, then they need to provide additional spaces where people can go to relax, be by themselves, etc. Not just bathrooms spaces!

I'm the teacher who posted above that I think the argument that open-concept offices are misogynistic because of tampons is in itself misogynistic. That doesn't mean I think they're a good idea. I don't have specific experience with open-concept office plans, but I absolutely can see how, for the portion of my job that doesn't require teenagers in the room, I am more efficient after school when I can be alone in my classroom, than when there are kids and colleagues in the building coming in and out. As someone who had very private conversations with my adoption social worker in a bathroom, I can absolutely understand how an office with a door would be a great thing. I just think that offices and doors are good for both men and women.

[Anonymous]

No, they're terrible for both men and women.

[Anonymous]

Private offices were where Mad Men took advantage of women. Lots of things happened behind closed doors.

So what’s between open concept and private offices?

My pet peeve: hotels that don’t have waste baskets in the bathrooms near the toilets.you have to carry your used products out in the open if you don’t remember to drag it into the bathroom. Worse when the bathroom
Is too small to accommodate a waste basket.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This goes beyond period products to any private actions a person wishes to keep private: medications come to mind. The open floor concept is just bad for privacy all around. If a workplace wants to organize themselves like this, for ease of team work and camaraderie, for example, then they need to provide additional spaces where people can go to relax, be by themselves, etc. Not just bathrooms spaces!

I'm the teacher who posted above that I think the argument that open-concept offices are misogynistic because of tampons is in itself misogynistic. That doesn't mean I think they're a good idea. I don't have specific experience with open-concept office plans, but I absolutely can see how, for the portion of my job that doesn't require teenagers in the room, I am more efficient after school when I can be alone in my classroom, than when there are kids and colleagues in the building coming in and out. As someone who had very private conversations with my adoption social worker in a bathroom, I can absolutely understand how an office with a door would be a great thing. I just think that offices and doors are good for both men and women.

The answer is privacy — online ans IRL — is dead.

Work from home is also terrible because people are losing touch with the human side of being human.

Open concept is terrible for concentration until you learn out to block things out. Something earlier generations did better at.

Closed, private offices were rife with sexual harassment issues and worse.

I guess it is back to the fields for everyone!

[Anonymous]

The suck for everyone but I think they are worse for women.

Though I don't see them as worse because of tampons or feminine products. No matter what, as a woman you are going to have to bring feminine products to work and carry them to the bathroom. That's just life. I don's see the difference between keeping them in a desk drawer in an office versus at a desk.

But as a woman who has been pregnant and postpartum in an open concept office, it is the worst. When you are pregnant, everyone knows how often you are going to the bathroom, everyone knows if you have gas. Early in your pregnancy or during IVF treatments, you may have calls to doctors offices that you'd like to be private and it's harder to do that in an open concept office.

After childbirth, open concept offices are aggressively inconvenient for postpartum and nursing moms. Some cubicles have high enough walls that you can pump in them, but not all. And pumps make noise that might disturb others. Alternatively there can be a nursing room, but in open concept offices, these rooms tend to be harder to access because of the preference for everything to be open with sightline -- in my office it was two floors away tucked behind the rooms that held our servers.

Also, open concept sucks when you are going through any kind of medical issues, whether it's a kidney stone or pregnancy or postpartum depression (I've had all three!). Open concept means that if you randomly feel emotional during hormonal shifts during the day, people can see you crying at your desk. It means if you are in physical discomfort or pain, everyone can see it. It means if you want to call a loved one to tell them you are having a tough day, you need to find a conference room to do so or everyone can hear. It is humiliating for people going through physical challenges.

We should all opposed open concept offices but I think women have good reasons to hate them more.

[Anonymous]

Agree with the PPs that say reframing this is vital or else people will get hung up on tampons and PCisms.

Open concept spaces have been proven to cause loss in productivity for all workers. Mostly because of shared germs, distractions on calls, and for lots of other reasons mentioned here.

CEOs who still think RTO + bullpens are the way to go are archaic thinkers who should be scuttled by their boards or shareholders.

[Anonymous]

Never had a problem with tampons or school calls but everyone hates open concept. I do think it’s worse for women due to pressure to look a certain way all the time and the burden that places on us. That’s the real issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This goes beyond period products to any private actions a person wishes to keep private: medications come to mind. The open floor concept is just bad for privacy all around. If a workplace wants to organize themselves like this, for ease of team work and camaraderie, for example, then they need to provide additional spaces where people can go to relax, be by themselves, etc. Not just bathrooms spaces!

I'm the teacher who posted above that I think the argument that open-concept offices are misogynistic because of tampons is in itself misogynistic. That doesn't mean I think they're a good idea. I don't have specific experience with open-concept office plans, but I absolutely can see how, for the portion of my job that doesn't require teenagers in the room, I am more efficient after school when I can be alone in my classroom, than when there are kids and colleagues in the building coming in and out. As someone who had very private conversations with my adoption social worker in a bathroom, I can absolutely understand how an office with a door would be a great thing. I just think that offices and doors are good for both men and women.

The answer is privacy — online ans IRL — is dead.

Work from home is also terrible because people are losing touch with the human side of being human.

Open concept is terrible for concentration until you learn out to block things out. Something earlier generations did better at.

Closed, private offices were rife with sexual harassment issues and worse.

I guess it is back to the fields for everyone!

Hybrid is win-win and reasonable because it keeps people engaged in person but also gives them WFH focus time to knock out solo tasks, and work life balance.

Hybrid is the reasonable and effective solution. But the people in charge right now are not interested in reasonable and effective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Never had a problem with tampons or school calls but everyone hates open concept. I do think it’s worse for women due to pressure to look a certain way all the time and the burden that places on us. That’s the real issue.

But that’s not a down side; just the opposite.

When you wrote women have to look a certain way, that is just code for being healthy and not being obese.

Look, Michelle Obama was right. American women really do have an obesity problem. And it’s killing us! With closed off offices, or worse, WFH, it’s far too easy for us to fall further into the trap of sedentary lifestyles, eating fatty foods / too many calories, and not exercising like we should.

Really? WFH is doing this? When we spend an extra two hours of our free time commuting vs. perhaps exercising and cooking healthy meals? It is the office that is pushing the obesity, friend.

[Anonymous]

Ladies, many of you need to grow up and put your big girl panties on. Geez!

[Anonymous]

Wow

So, the argument is that open concept offices are bad specifically for women because

1) Tampons obviously need to be hidden, and women aren't smart enough to hide their tampons without walls.

2) Women cry a lot. They need walls on their offices so people won't see that they're crying instead of working.

3) Women should be the one handling all the school related phone calls etc . . . Their offices should provide them with private places to do these non work related tasks.

4) Women are by nature gluttonous, so they need to be in public places where people can shame them for eating. They can't be trusted alone.

If I'm an employer and women come to me and say that I should change my open plan office for women, because women are stupid, gluttons who cry a lot and need privacy so we can't see that they aren't working, I'm not going to think "oh, you're right!" I'm going to think "maybe I shouldn't hire women.

Luckily, the women I know aren't stupid or gluttonous, or off task, or constantly crying.

Open-concept offices have problems. But those problems should be framed in ways that aren't misogynist.

[Anonymous]

I don’t think they’re misogynistic but I think they’re terrible for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Are you the same person who asked if discussing the obesity epidemic is inherently misogynistic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn’t use misogynistic but they are inherently super inconvenient for all of the reasons stated. Also if you’re going through any sort of personal or kid-related health issue making appointments or accepting calls from doctors (that come at unexpected moments) is hard. I was in an open office where there was nowhere to go quickly for privacy. As a result we all knew personal things about each other we probably wouldn’t have wanted to share.

I agree. I found out that a co-worker had a miscarriage and another co worker was on benzos. This stuff was none of my business but could easily be heard on phone calls.

[Anonymous]

Yeah - the inconveniences associated with womanhood are just some in a long list of problems with OC. The framing is thus unnecessary and unhelpful.