Yu Zidi- what do we think is going on?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel bad for her. So much pressure.

If it’s simply talent and hard work, no one will believe it.

If it’s doping, she is *being doped* by adults.

It’s abusive either way.

All the more reason to impose true age limits on sports so that anyone competing on the world stage is doing so with adult rights and agency. Skating is doing it, gymnastics is contemplating it, and I hope other sports with age issues and abuse will follow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone in sports dopes. It's just a matter of mixing new cocktails that the testers haven't developed tests for.
But for Chinese phenoms, let's consider population proportion. In a nation with that many 12 year old girls, there is a greater likelihood that more of them will have swimming talent than a country with a smaller population of 12 year old girls. Add in the fact that the government identifies and develops sports talent early which really helps.
For instance, the basketball star Yao Ming didn't come out of nowhere. His parents were basketball players plucked by the government. Then their kid was developed when he showed interest and talent.

This seems so evil, what China does.

[Anonymous]

McIntosh was 14 when she finished 4th in Tokyo Olympics. Are you are not xenophobic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:McIntosh was 14 when she finished 4th in Tokyo Olympics. Are you are not xenophobic?

Have you looked at the comparisons of her stats to Yu’s? We’re talking two years younger and times that are basically an order of magnitude in difference. And she was still basically internationally fast last year at 11:

https://swimswam.com/12-year-old-yu-zidi-clocks-209-21-to-take-4th-in-200-im-world-championship-final/

https://amp.scmp.com/sport/china/article/3319763/who-yu-zidi-chinese-12-year-old-making-waves-world-aquatics-championships

She is 15 seconds faster than Summer McIntosh was at the same age. I would love to see her times prior to and including the 2023 national competitions that articles keep referencing. I think the reason it’s easy to be skeptical is that we can access times for any American swimmer going back to their 8&u days and see how their big drops may have correlated with puberty, club changes, workout group changes, coaches, etc. As someone who can’t read Chinese, I don’t have the ability to access Yu’s swim history with any similar level of transparency.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:McIntosh was 14 when she finished 4th in Tokyo Olympics. Are you are not xenophobic?

I’m literally half Chinese. Not xenophobic but have plenty of reasons to be very skeptical of anything coming out of that part of the universe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone in sports dopes. It's just a matter of mixing new cocktails that the testers haven't developed tests for.
But for Chinese phenoms, let's consider population proportion. In a nation with that many 12 year old girls, there is a greater likelihood that more of them will have swimming talent than a country with a smaller population of 12 year old girls. Add in the fact that the government identifies and develops sports talent early which really helps.
For instance, the basketball star Yao Ming didn't come out of nowhere. His parents were basketball players plucked by the government. Then their kid was developed when he showed interest and talent.

In the U.S., parental and child interest and accessibility drive sports choice. Kids in Wisconsin funnel towards ice hockey and away from surfing. Kids in aspen are more likely to take up alpine or freeski than kids in Tennessee.

In China, sports choice is driven by physical characteristics. The state will visit schools and measure metrics that help identify talent for particular sports. Kids with big hands and feet, disproportionately large wingspans, and long torsos will be directed towards swim. Strong kids who excel at broad jumping and show explosive skills will be directed towards weightlifting. A kid from a remote village that doesn’t have a pool or a swim team can become an Olympic swimmer, whereas that would never happen in the U.S.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone in sports dopes. It's just a matter of mixing new cocktails that the testers haven't developed tests for.
But for Chinese phenoms, let's consider population proportion. In a nation with that many 12 year old girls, there is a greater likelihood that more of them will have swimming talent than a country with a smaller population of 12 year old girls. Add in the fact that the government identifies and develops sports talent early which really helps.
For instance, the basketball star Yao Ming didn't come out of nowhere. His parents were basketball players plucked by the government. Then their kid was developed when he showed interest and talent.

In the U.S., parental and child interest and accessibility drive sports choice. Kids in Wisconsin funnel towards ice hockey and away from surfing. Kids in aspen are more likely to take up alpine or freeski than kids in Tennessee.

In China, sports choice is driven by physical characteristics. The state will visit schools and measure metrics that help identify talent for particular sports. Kids with big hands and feet, disproportionately large wingspans, and long torsos will be directed towards swim. Strong kids who excel at broad jumping and show explosive skills will be directed towards weightlifting. A kid from a remote village that doesn’t have a pool or a swim team can become an Olympic swimmer, whereas that would never happen in the U.S.

Do you think body type selection is sufficient to develop a world-class athlete in 5-6 years? I can see things happening that quickly for an athlete chosen at 14 who becomes elite at 20-21. But to take a literal child from zero at age 6 and make them the best in the world by age 12 would be the most stunning athletic and coaching development in athletic history.

So if that's what's going on, and if it's real, then China needs to step up and start bragging about their training methods, nutrition, periodization, etc. If they have a population with the genetics and depth to make this possible, then sharing training methods wouldn't be giving away any advantage. It seems weird that no one is coming out and saying "I was her childhood coach and she had x amount of potential from day 1" or "I swam with her in the same training group and we always knew she was going to be a big deal."

[Anonymous]

Share their training methods, nutrition, etc? I would keep that info to myself and then dominate swimming for years and years

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Share their training methods, nutrition, etc? I would keep that info to myself and then dominate swimming for years and years

And then everyone would be perfectly within their rights to scrutinize the situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Share their training methods, nutrition, etc? I would keep that info to myself and then dominate swimming for years and years

Agree. This is such an off-topic unless you too want to engineer some phenom you think is under your thumb.

[Anonymous]

Yes, let everyone scrutinize - but don’t give the info away - the Olympics, for example, is country vs country, why help other countries when you’re trying to beat them?

[Anonymous]

Sports is nationalized in China, there are specials schools called athletic schools in every province when I grew up. The promising athletes live in school and get trained full time, all on government's dime. There were several girls from the neighboring athletic school gymnastic department in my class when I was in elementary school. They came for morning classes after early morning training, then went back to their school for afternoon training. We were on 4th grade.

Not sure what is going on now, but I would not be surprised that the government still have such a system, and abusing and doping the kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Sports is nationalized in China, there are specials schools called athletic schools in every province when I grew up. The promising athletes live in school and get trained full time, all on government's dime. There were several girls from the neighboring athletic school gymnastic department in my class when I was in elementary school. They came for morning classes after early morning training, then went back to their school for afternoon training. We were on 4th grade.

Not sure what is going on now, but I would not be surprised that the government still have such a system, and abusing and doping the kids.

This is reminiscent of other countries in the Olympics past.... The U.S. is far less organized, and Olympic athletes still have to work (e.g., Home Depot).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone in sports dopes. It's just a matter of mixing new cocktails that the testers haven't developed tests for.
But for Chinese phenoms, let's consider population proportion. In a nation with that many 12 year old girls, there is a greater likelihood that more of them will have swimming talent than a country with a smaller population of 12 year old girls. Add in the fact that the government identifies and develops sports talent early which really helps.
For instance, the basketball star Yao Ming didn't come out of nowhere. His parents were basketball players plucked by the government. Then their kid was developed when he showed interest and talent.

This seems so evil, what China does.

What is evil, developing sports talent?
You know, these kids aren't forced into it. Kind of like how the Kirov ballet develops their people. Early training and the flotsam get weeded out in the process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Sports is nationalized in China, there are specials schools called athletic schools in every province when I grew up. The promising athletes live in school and get trained full time, all on government's dime. There were several girls from the neighboring athletic school gymnastic department in my class when I was in elementary school. They came for morning classes after early morning training, then went back to their school for afternoon training. We were on 4th grade.

Not sure what is going on now, but I would not be surprised that the government still have such a system, and abusing and doping the kids.

This is reminiscent of other countries in the Olympics past.... The U.S. is far less organized, and Olympic athletes still have to work (e.g., Home Depot).

Olympic athletes are free to pursue sponsorship deals once they turn pro that are worth a lot. Not sure that can happen for a Chinese athlete.