Immersion vs dual language programs

[Anonymous]

My parents prioritized assimilation vs. bilingualism. And it really disabled my brain from learning any language let alone theirs. The amount of times I'm shamed for having bad pronunciation is epic.

I'm prioritizing bilingualism because I've seen how it helps my cousins as adults in so many ways.

[Anonymous]

Folks, if you want to develop bilingual DC's and have limited school options, just get them to watch TV in Spanish and to listen to Spanish music. (Spanish pop music is so much better than English music anyway.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My parents prioritized assimilation vs. bilingualism. And it really disabled my brain from learning any language let alone theirs. The amount of times I'm shamed for having bad pronunciation is epic.

I'm prioritizing bilingualism because I've seen how it helps my cousins as adults in so many ways.

My first job out of college was a crappy customer facing position at a big retail bank. But I automatically got a 4% raise because I spoke Spanish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My parents prioritized assimilation vs. bilingualism. And it really disabled my brain from learning any language let alone theirs. The amount of times I'm shamed for having bad pronunciation is epic.

I'm prioritizing bilingualism because I've seen how it helps my cousins as adults in so many ways.

My first job out of college was a crappy customer facing position at a big retail bank. But I automatically got a 4% raise because I spoke Spanish.

Right.

I have a friend whose non-profit wouldn't lay her off over people more experienced because she was fluent in Spanish.

[Anonymous]

spanish is not tough to learn

[Anonymous]

To the person who puts kids in 2 week camp in Mexico what camp?? I’ve been looking in Peru and Ecuador and cannot find. I don’t want a camp for English speakers to learn Spanish. I want a fun camp for Spanish speaking kids.

[Anonymous]

Guanajuato City, México- Gene Bryron Museum has summer camps - art, sports, singing, 100% local (+ my children). But honestly, just drive around, you will find a summer camp, and they will take your DC's.

[Anonymous]

No matter what route you go, you have to supplement outside of school if you are not speaking the language at home. We sent our daughter to camp where she had to have af least a B2 level of language learning and she will be doing homestays/ short-term exchanges abroad now that she is in her teens. It is a commitment of time and resources on the part of the parents.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:If your goal is to raise a fluent child (vs. getting your DC into some academic program), you should enroll them in full immersion and expect to still have to invest significantl time & resources.

My DS and I have purposely hired only Spanish speaking nannies since our DC's were newborns, we enrolled them in Spanish immersion preschool and kindergarten, we have placed them in a 2 week summer camp in Mexico every single year since age 4, we have always required Netflix, Disney, and Hulu to play only in Spanish. They are now in middle school and the top Spanish speakers in their classes, but still barely fluent.

Honestly, if you are not 100% committed to your DC's becoming fluent, it's not worth it.

^^^this

DH and I don't speak Spanish but are committed to bilingual children. This is exactly what we have done.

We had immersion until 1st grade however.

Kids tested better in Spanish in ES than English.

We also had weekend tutors for reading and writing (just an hour) and their Spanish vocab is fantastic. They already read for fun in Spanish.

From what I hear from their Spanish teachers and our Spanish dominat friends, their Spanish is better than most Latino kids.

Their Spanish is better than kids whose parents only speak Spanish at home? I highly doubt that.

Not based on the parents education and if the parents don't make speaking Spanish a priority.

Most Latino kids don't get to attend immersion programs. It is very, very hard to keep the language when your school is all in English and you have no opportunities for full immersion. I am Latina and the only reason I am still fluent is because I would visit my native country for 2 months every summer and even then it was a struggle. I still lack confidence in the language and am missing a lot of vocabulary.

Shaming kids and families who "don't make speaking Spanish a priority" is so dumb and offensive to me.

Who said I'm shaming families who don't make it a priority. They might have other priorities and dual language isn't it. Also like you they might not feel confident in their Spanish so they don't want to teach their kids Spanish.

I have my basic Spanish from HS and have been told by my fluent friends to STOP because it's not helping my kids.

But my dual language friends aren't always able to send their kids to a dual language school. So their Latino kids speak Spanish but only have a home vocabulary not a history, science, math etc that you get with school.

I have friends who will tell me they are fluent in a language like a 5th grader or only know the kitchen versions of a language becuase that is the only time they spoke the language.

You said Latinos who don't speak Spanish have uneducated parents who didn't make the effort to teach their kids Spanish. I can tell you from personal experience that without the resources and opportunity to access Spanish immersion while living in the US, maintaining the language is very difficult, including for Latinos with very educated parents who prioritize speaking Spanish at home.

Rereading what I wrote I could see how it could be condescending.

I meant OR not AND. You can have Latino parents who speak Spanish only at home but they themselves don't have a HS degree so vocabulary is limited. This being similar to an English only speaking parent who won't have a high vocabulary in English because of their education. So the child is not exposed. For a bilingual child this will be an issue as they get older and should have a more robust vocabulary.

And then you have Latino parents who aren't confident in Spanish, think they are doing what worked for them or don't do the extras at home.

100% it is harder to make a fully bi-lingual child in the US but not impossible.

I have a friend with 3 Latino kids, the oldest is fluent and the other two can just understand. It gets harder the more the oldest child is immersed in the English world and then you have another English voice in the house.

I realize your intentions are good and I'm sure much of what you wrote is true but as a Latina I just find you incrediblly irritating. Why do you feel the need to opine about experiences you have never had? It seems like Latino families get dinged because we fail to learn English AND because we fail to teach our kids Spanish. Maybe recognize our families are navigating two different cultures and languages, often with fewer resources than you have, and stop talking about us without us.

I am the PP who mentioned hiring a Spanish-speaking nanny and putting DC's in a summer camp in Mexico every single year.
I'm Latino, I grew up in a Latino neighborhood in the U.S., and I didn't speak one word of English until I started school.

There is nothing irritating about the PP who pointed out the obvious - developing bilingualism in the U.S. is hard and requires commitment. Some people lack that commitment and rather prioritize other things.

My parents had that "committment" but it wasn't effective. Sure, I can speak Spanish, but I don't like to because I'm not confident in it as a result of being shamed, made fun of and bullied when I made mistakes.

I don't think committment or prioritization is what matters. I think what matters is support. Do you support your child's language learning? That depends on whether or not you have the resources to do it. You might really want to support it and think if you do OPOL at home that will work. OPOL is a huge committment and it's also not enough support.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No matter what route you go, you have to supplement outside of school if you are not speaking the language at home. We sent our daughter to camp where she had to have af least a B2 level of language learning and she will be doing homestays/ short-term exchanges abroad now that she is in her teens. It is a commitment of time and resources on the part of the parents.

Please share info re: homestays/ short-term exchanges?
Do you have to deal with anxiety over having your DC's away and in other people's home.

[Anonymous]

Bilingualism requires a really significant investment by the parents. My wife speaks Spanish to the kids (she’s a native speaker) and although they understand everything she says they are very resistant to producing in the language. I’ve had some success at getting our younger one to speak my second language but that’s required doing his bedtime reading in that language and finding any and every opportunity to drill words.

[Anonymous]

My three kids all did/are doing a dual immersion program K-5. My older two are now in 9th and 7th grades. Neither parent speaks the target language. After the immersion program, kids do advanced conversational classes in middle school and then AP class and other programs in high school if desired.

Neither of my older kids are what I would consider fluent in the target language. Not at all. They understand probably 95% of spoken language (are missing certain slang or more technical words for sure). But: speaking and writing? Meh. Enough to muddle through, maybe, but nowhere near what anyone would consider fluent. Not even close.

Their peers who speak target language in the home (or have at least one parent who speaks the target language fluently) are mostly fluent.

However: this was more or less our expectation. Of course kids like mine would not be fluent speakers given those parameters (without massive supplementation). I do think they have an excellent base to build upon if they ever choose to study the language further.

Also: one has a great accent, the other….not so much.

Our district has run these dual immersion programs for a LONG time and I’d say my kids’ results are pretty typical (again- given neither parent speaks the target language and we have done no supplementation)

[Anonymous]

My kid is in an immersion Spanish school. It’s 100% immersion prek3 to K. Then in 1st it is 50% immersion and 50% English. They alternate days so the whole day is immersion and not back and forth.

We don’t speak any Spanish. So to supplement, he does do Spanish summer camp for 4 weeks. We are planning on starting 4 weeks Spanish camp abroad in the next 1-2 years. He also watches shows and movies in Spanish as recommended by the school.

His school has high expectations for the kids for Spanish. All the staff including admin is native speaking except for only 2 that I can think of. At school, you will hear staff speaking Spanish in the hallways and not English. The school has about 1/3rd native speaking students or students with families who are fluent in Spanish.

He started in K and just finished 5th grade. His accent is really good and he is doing well. He understands everything and his speaking and writing is pretty good as per feedback from his teachers. At 10, he took the seal of biliteracy test and scored intermediate. He will be starting a 6-12 school in the fall and will be able to continue with Spanish. We are hoping he is interested in earning the IB diploma.

It is hard to tell so early if a kid picks up languages easily but it seems like our kid is doing well. I agree that if fluency is the goal then you have to supplement if you are not native speaking. The families who are not Hispanic at our school who we know are fluent did peace corps abroad or study abroad or lived abroad, etc..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid is in an immersion Spanish school. It’s 100% immersion prek3 to K. Then in 1st it is 50% immersion and 50% English. They alternate days so the whole day is immersion and not back and forth.

We don’t speak any Spanish. So to supplement, he does do Spanish summer camp for 4 weeks. We are planning on starting 4 weeks Spanish camp abroad in the next 1-2 years. He also watches shows and movies in Spanish as recommended by the school.

His school has high expectations for the kids for Spanish. All the staff including admin is native speaking except for only 2 that I can think of. At school, you will hear staff speaking Spanish in the hallways and not English. The school has about 1/3rd native speaking students or students with families who are fluent in Spanish.

He started in K and just finished 5th grade. His accent is really good and he is doing well. He understands everything and his speaking and writing is pretty good as per feedback from his teachers. At 10, he took the seal of biliteracy test and scored intermediate. He will be starting a 6-12 school in the fall and will be able to continue with Spanish. We are hoping he is interested in earning the IB diploma.

It is hard to tell so early if a kid picks up languages easily but it seems like our kid is doing well. I agree that if fluency is the goal then you have to supplement if you are not native speaking. The families who are not Hispanic at our school who we know are fluent did peace corps abroad or study abroad or lived abroad, etc..

Typo above. Stamp test not seal of biliteracy.

[Anonymous]

My kid does dual language 50/50 English and Spanish. I 100% would have preferred full immersion. I can see the difference in fluency for kids who are in full immersion. Our school actually switched to an 80/20 model but not my kids grade. I wish he had that opportunity. those kids have better fluency.

We are a Latino (well half) family that doesnt speak Spanish at home. It is my MILs first language and she was beaten at school for speaking it so she refused to teacher her kids. My husband learned in school but it doesn't come easy to him..

My neighbors daughter only spoke Spanish before she started school and now she refused to speak it and will only speak English.

There are many many barriers learning the non dominant language of a country.