Push for another bilingual middle school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many low income kids are not even on grade level in ELA.

Why would you put them in an immersion program in another language when they can’t even get English proficiency?

Also immersion program in preK has zero English and later 50% less ELA.

Immersion is a niche and an option. It’s best suited for kids who are higher performing or are at least proficient in ELA.

Above is why immersion is not as popular with lower SES. Also they can’t support or supplement either if child is struggling in the language.

At my kid’s school, 50% of the population was Spanish dominant, so delivering content like math in Spanish was a plus for kids who were behind.

You know these programs are not for the Spanish dominant kids by where the put them. If they were, they would have them in Brightwood and Columbia Heights. DC has Hispanic Heritage Month celebrations and large Anti-ICE protests in Columbia Heights, but can’t lift a finger to let them have a bilingual program.

What do you think the CH in CHEC stands for?

You mean DCPS’s dual language middle school with 0 dual language feeder elementary schools? Do you think makes any sense?

The complaint was that DCPS bilingual isn't for Spanish speakers. CHEC is majority Hispanic and in CH. There are also separate English/Spanish dominant lotteries for various elementary schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think we should look at the European model of language education. Most students learn 3 languages.

Isn't that because European countries are tiny and you need to know a few other languages if you want to travel anywhere?

EXACTLY this. (I'm not commenting on what "should" be. I'm acknowledging what is.) For 99% of children growing up in this country - yes, including those who begin school without any English knowledge - modern foreign languages besides English are like art or sports or psychology or home economics or some other optional high school offering. Would it enrich their lives? sure, why not! Would they gain something valuable from it? I'll bet they would! Can they live an exceptional and full life without it? Absolutely! and most kids here probably should plan on that - especially if it takes time away from far more vital, necessary and important subjects and pursuits.

In this country, and this country only, language study is a much less necessary exercise than it is literally anywhere else on the planet. Even if the U.S. is to wither to oblivion in ours or our children's lifetimes, this will likely remain the case for several decades to come. The end.

[Anonymous]

agree but that implies there is value in attending an immersion elementary school even if it drops down to less than full immersion in middle school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think we should look at the European model of language education. Most students learn 3 languages.

Isn't that because European countries are tiny and you need to know a few other languages if you want to travel anywhere?

EXACTLY this. (I'm not commenting on what "should" be. I'm acknowledging what is.) For 99% of children growing up in this country - yes, including those who begin school without any English knowledge - modern foreign languages besides English are like art or sports or psychology or home economics or some other optional high school offering. Would it enrich their lives? sure, why not! Would they gain something valuable from it? I'll bet they would! Can they live an exceptional and full life without it? Absolutely! and most kids here probably should plan on that - especially if it takes time away from far more vital, necessary and important subjects and pursuits.

In this country, and this country only, language study is a much less necessary exercise than it is literally anywhere else on the planet. Even if the U.S. is to wither to oblivion in ours or our children's lifetimes, this will likely remain the case for several decades to come. The end.

I agree with this and I have a language minor, my husband was an undergrad language major, and I work in international business. It's very optional to learn foreign languages, especially with smartphones to handle reading and translation. Languages are fun to learn but Americans have few opportunities to use these skills compared to people who live in other geographies. I learned Spanish and French in K-12 and French in college. Ended up needing Russian for a few years (studied at night) and could use Korean and Chinese for work for fun (but don't have time to master these).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many low income kids are not even on grade level in ELA.

Why would you put them in an immersion program in another language when they can’t even get English proficiency?

Also immersion program in preK has zero English and later 50% less ELA.

Immersion is a niche and an option. It’s best suited for kids who are higher performing or are at least proficient in ELA.

Above is why immersion is not as popular with lower SES. Also they can’t support or supplement either if child is struggling in the language.

At my kid’s school, 50% of the population was Spanish dominant, so delivering content like math in Spanish was a plus for kids who were behind.

You know these programs are not for the Spanish dominant kids by where the put them. If they were, they would have them in Brightwood and Columbia Heights. DC has Hispanic Heritage Month celebrations and large Anti-ICE protests in Columbia Heights, but can’t lift a finger to let them have a bilingual program.

What do you think the CH in CHEC stands for?

You mean DCPS’s dual language middle school with 0 dual language feeder elementary schools? Do you think makes any sense?

My kid PK3- 4th at Bruce monroe (Title 1, majority Latino)which is a bilingual school. PK is 100% Spanish as well. My kid (non native speaker) is called there, seriously the best teachers she had. However, we finally left because there was no way we were sending kid to MacFarland Middle which is DCPS idea of a bilingual middle school. The only good bilingual middle schools are Oyster Adams (need be in bounds or the luckiest kid in the lottery) or DCI and the only way to get in the Spanish track for middle school is to have gotten into an immersion charter feeds to DCI.

In general, DCPS does a terrible job with middle. There is a reason thousand of parents are trying to get their kid in deal. DCPS needs to offer more advanced classes, separate advanced tracks etc. middle school is important, I’m not putting my smart kid in a class where 90% are on grade level math or English

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many low income kids are not even on grade level in ELA.

Why would you put them in an immersion program in another language when they can’t even get English proficiency?

Also immersion program in preK has zero English and later 50% less ELA.

Immersion is a niche and an option. It’s best suited for kids who are higher performing or are at least proficient in ELA.

Above is why immersion is not as popular with lower SES. Also they can’t support or supplement either if child is struggling in the language.

At my kid’s school, 50% of the population was Spanish dominant, so delivering content like math in Spanish was a plus for kids who were behind.

You know these programs are not for the Spanish dominant kids by where the put them. If they were, they would have them in Brightwood and Columbia Heights. DC has Hispanic Heritage Month celebrations and large Anti-ICE protests in Columbia Heights, but can’t lift a finger to let them have a bilingual program.

What do you think the CH in CHEC stands for?

You mean DCPS’s dual language middle school with 0 dual language feeder elementary schools? Do you think makes any sense?

My kid PK3- 4th at Bruce monroe (Title 1, majority Latino)which is a bilingual school. PK is 100% Spanish as well. My kid (non native speaker) is called there, seriously the best teachers she had. However, we finally left because there was no way we were sending kid to MacFarland Middle which is DCPS idea of a bilingual middle school. The only good bilingual middle schools are Oyster Adams (need be in bounds or the luckiest kid in the lottery) or DCI and the only way to get in the Spanish track for middle school is to have gotten into an immersion charter feeds to DCI.

In general, DCPS does a terrible job with middle. There is a reason thousand of parents are trying to get their kid in deal. DCPS needs to offer more advanced classes, separate advanced tracks etc. middle school is important, I’m not putting my smart kid in a class where 90% are on grade level math or English

You will be disappointed if having 90% of kids on grade level doesn’t meet your expectations. What school in DC would be suitable for you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many low income kids are not even on grade level in ELA.

Why would you put them in an immersion program in another language when they can’t even get English proficiency?

Also immersion program in preK has zero English and later 50% less ELA.

Immersion is a niche and an option. It’s best suited for kids who are higher performing or are at least proficient in ELA.

Above is why immersion is not as popular with lower SES. Also they can’t support or supplement either if child is struggling in the language.

At my kid’s school, 50% of the population was Spanish dominant, so delivering content like math in Spanish was a plus for kids who were behind.

You know these programs are not for the Spanish dominant kids by where the put them. If they were, they would have them in Brightwood and Columbia Heights. DC has Hispanic Heritage Month celebrations and large Anti-ICE protests in Columbia Heights, but can’t lift a finger to let them have a bilingual program.

What do you think the CH in CHEC stands for?

You mean DCPS’s dual language middle school with 0 dual language feeder elementary schools? Do you think makes any sense?

My kid PK3- 4th at Bruce monroe (Title 1, majority Latino)which is a bilingual school. PK is 100% Spanish as well. My kid (non native speaker) is called there, seriously the best teachers she had. However, we finally left because there was no way we were sending kid to MacFarland Middle which is DCPS idea of a bilingual middle school. The only good bilingual middle schools are Oyster Adams (need be in bounds or the luckiest kid in the lottery) or DCI and the only way to get in the Spanish track for middle school is to have gotten into an immersion charter feeds to DCI.

In general, DCPS does a terrible job with middle. There is a reason thousand of parents are trying to get their kid in deal. DCPS needs to offer more advanced classes, separate advanced tracks etc. middle school is important, I’m not putting my smart kid in a class where 90% are on grade level math or English

You will be disappointed if having 90% of kids on grade level doesn’t meet your expectations. What school in DC would be suitable for you?

They obviously mean aren’t.

[Anonymous]

My kid and a group of her friends will be at MacFarland in a few weeks. Should be fun, I recommend it.

But I hear the folks on the Hill or east of the Anacostia who just can't get uptown easily. What sounds most reasonable to me is a 'thread' at a neighborhood middle school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many low income kids are not even on grade level in ELA.

Why would you put them in an immersion program in another language when they can’t even get English proficiency?

Also immersion program in preK has zero English and later 50% less ELA.

Immersion is a niche and an option. It’s best suited for kids who are higher performing or are at least proficient in ELA.

Above is why immersion is not as popular with lower SES. Also they can’t support or supplement either if child is struggling in the language.

At my kid’s school, 50% of the population was Spanish dominant, so delivering content like math in Spanish was a plus for kids who were behind.

You know these programs are not for the Spanish dominant kids by where the put them. If they were, they would have them in Brightwood and Columbia Heights. DC has Hispanic Heritage Month celebrations and large Anti-ICE protests in Columbia Heights, but can’t lift a finger to let them have a bilingual program.

What do you think the CH in CHEC stands for?

You mean DCPS’s dual language middle school with 0 dual language feeder elementary schools? Do you think makes any sense?

My kid PK3- 4th at Bruce monroe (Title 1, majority Latino)which is a bilingual school. PK is 100% Spanish as well. My kid (non native speaker) is called there, seriously the best teachers she had. However, we finally left because there was no way we were sending kid to MacFarland Middle which is DCPS idea of a bilingual middle school. The only good bilingual middle schools are Oyster Adams (need be in bounds or the luckiest kid in the lottery) or DCI and the only way to get in the Spanish track for middle school is to have gotten into an immersion charter feeds to DCI.

In general, DCPS does a terrible job with middle. There is a reason thousand of parents are trying to get their kid in deal. DCPS needs to offer more advanced classes, separate advanced tracks etc. middle school is important, I’m not putting my smart kid in a class where 90% are on grade level math or English

You will be disappointed if having 90% of kids on grade level doesn’t meet your expectations. What school in DC would be suitable for you?

They obviously mean aren’t.

Nah, some of you are crazy enough to want 100% and then a percentage are above.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many low income kids are not even on grade level in ELA.

Why would you put them in an immersion program in another language when they can’t even get English proficiency?

Also immersion program in preK has zero English and later 50% less ELA.

Immersion is a niche and an option. It’s best suited for kids who are higher performing or are at least proficient in ELA.

Above is why immersion is not as popular with lower SES. Also they can’t support or supplement either if child is struggling in the language.

At my kid’s school, 50% of the population was Spanish dominant, so delivering content like math in Spanish was a plus for kids who were behind.

You know these programs are not for the Spanish dominant kids by where the put them. If they were, they would have them in Brightwood and Columbia Heights. DC has Hispanic Heritage Month celebrations and large Anti-ICE protests in Columbia Heights, but can’t lift a finger to let them have a bilingual program.

What do you think the CH in CHEC stands for?

You mean DCPS’s dual language middle school with 0 dual language feeder elementary schools? Do you think makes any sense?

My kid PK3- 4th at Bruce monroe (Title 1, majority Latino)which is a bilingual school. PK is 100% Spanish as well. My kid (non native speaker) is called there, seriously the best teachers she had. However, we finally left because there was no way we were sending kid to MacFarland Middle which is DCPS idea of a bilingual middle school. The only good bilingual middle schools are Oyster Adams (need be in bounds or the luckiest kid in the lottery) or DCI and the only way to get in the Spanish track for middle school is to have gotten into an immersion charter feeds to DCI.

In general, DCPS does a terrible job with middle. There is a reason thousand of parents are trying to get their kid in deal. DCPS needs to offer more advanced classes, separate advanced tracks etc. middle school is important, I’m not putting my smart kid in a class where 90% are on grade level math or English

You will be disappointed if having 90% of kids on grade level doesn’t meet your expectations. What school in DC would be suitable for you?

They obviously mean aren’t.

Nah, some of you are crazy enough to want 100% and then a percentage are above.

No one with kids in DCPS is like this though. There aren't even elementary schools with scores like that, even in the wealthiest parts of town. People who think like this do not use public schools in DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did you read the article? Lower-income families aren't mostly interested in this. Which you can see in the data, because fewer than 10 students for both the pk-3 and pk-4 years even tried to gain access via the equity lottery to Shirley Chisholm this year.

But if what you actually mean is that your kids want this option, you'll be glad to know that Jefferson cleared its waitlist entirely already, so if they put a dual-language program there, you've got some chance of getting in even if you don't live in the neighborhood. It's a Title 1, 55% of the students are at-risk, and 10% of the students are doing math at grade level, but if your concern is really with privileged parents getting access to things that other families don't, that should all be a bonus for you.

It's not clear that lower-income families aren't mostly interested. There are two language immersion schools in Ward 7 - Elsie Whitlow Stokes and Global Citizens. Both have the highest rates of applications to seats offered and higher wait list numbers than other schools. It may be that lower income families aren't willing to travel farther for language immersion but put an option closer, and they are choosing it above other options. While Stokes and Global aren't very high at-risk, they are much higher than other language immersion schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you read the article? Lower-income families aren't mostly interested in this. Which you can see in the data, because fewer than 10 students for both the pk-3 and pk-4 years even tried to gain access via the equity lottery to Shirley Chisholm this year.

But if what you actually mean is that your kids want this option, you'll be glad to know that Jefferson cleared its waitlist entirely already, so if they put a dual-language program there, you've got some chance of getting in even if you don't live in the neighborhood. It's a Title 1, 55% of the students are at-risk, and 10% of the students are doing math at grade level, but if your concern is really with privileged parents getting access to things that other families don't, that should all be a bonus for you.

It's not clear that lower-income families aren't mostly interested. There are two language immersion schools in Ward 7 - Elsie Whitlow Stokes and Global Citizens. Both have the highest rates of applications to seats offered and higher wait list numbers than other schools. It may be that lower income families aren't willing to travel farther for language immersion but put an option closer, and they are choosing it above other options. While Stokes and Global aren't very high at-risk, they are much higher than other language immersion schools.

They are not high at risk because lower SES families are not the majority at these schools. Sure some more lower SES might enroll but they don’t obviously represent the SES of the neighborhood they are located meaning families are coming from other wards also

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you read the article? Lower-income families aren't mostly interested in this. Which you can see in the data, because fewer than 10 students for both the pk-3 and pk-4 years even tried to gain access via the equity lottery to Shirley Chisholm this year.

But if what you actually mean is that your kids want this option, you'll be glad to know that Jefferson cleared its waitlist entirely already, so if they put a dual-language program there, you've got some chance of getting in even if you don't live in the neighborhood. It's a Title 1, 55% of the students are at-risk, and 10% of the students are doing math at grade level, but if your concern is really with privileged parents getting access to things that other families don't, that should all be a bonus for you.

It's not clear that lower-income families aren't mostly interested. There are two language immersion schools in Ward 7 - Elsie Whitlow Stokes and Global Citizens. Both have the highest rates of applications to seats offered and higher wait list numbers than other schools. It may be that lower income families aren't willing to travel farther for language immersion but put an option closer, and they are choosing it above other options. While Stokes and Global aren't very high at-risk, they are much higher than other language immersion schools.

I’ve been hesitant to respond to this post, but I completely agree—location matters! Global Citizens and Stokes were strategically placed in Ward 7.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I live on this Hill and oppose this because we need to focus on improving existing middle schools, no creating a new one. Create an advanced language program at the existing MS. Why would you create an entire immersion MS to serve one elementary? It doesn't make sense.

Stuff like this annoys me because so many parents in DCPS just want some bespoke program for themselves. That's not the strength of a public school system. We need to pool resources.

The parents pushing for this aren’t seeking for it to be a Chisholm-only middle school. If you google “Creciendo Chisholm” you can learn more about their advocacy campaign (I only know broad strokes) — their big point is that there is no immersion middle school east of the park, but multiple immersion elementary schools, leaving a lot of kids high and dry if they want to continue bilingual education. I have no idea how adding a middle school to Chisholm as a bilingual feeder would functionally work — some of those bilingual schools are charters, Chisholm is DCPS, can those even “merge” so to speak? — but I don’t get the sense that is just parents trying to get a bespoke program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live on this Hill and oppose this because we need to focus on improving existing middle schools, no creating a new one. Create an advanced language program at the existing MS. Why would you create an entire immersion MS to serve one elementary? It doesn't make sense.

Stuff like this annoys me because so many parents in DCPS just want some bespoke program for themselves. That's not the strength of a public school system. We need to pool resources.

The parents pushing for this aren’t seeking for it to be a Chisholm-only middle school. If you google “Creciendo Chisholm” you can learn more about their advocacy campaign (I only know broad strokes) — their big point is that there is no immersion middle school east of the park, but multiple immersion elementary schools, leaving a lot of kids high and dry if they want to continue bilingual education. I have no idea how adding a middle school to Chisholm as a bilingual feeder would functionally work — some of those bilingual schools are charters, Chisholm is DCPS, can those even “merge” so to speak? — but I don’t get the sense that is just parents trying to get a bespoke program.

The EOTP middle school for DCPS bilingual elementary schools is McFarland

The EOTP middle school for immersion charters is DCI.

Chisholm kids can go to McFarland like other DCPS schools.