Do AP 5's Matter for College Admission?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Congratulations on such an achievement!

In a perfect world, it should be determinative, just like the SAT (or ACT) since the College Board is a national organization and thus AP scores can be used to compare candidates coming from very different educational systems. This is because GPA is hard to trust - so many public schools have grade inflation, and each school weighs advanced courses differently, forcing colleges to recalculate GPA anyway.

And yet everything I've read seems to discount the importance of AP scores. I do not understand it. It's not really fair. Even if you hold that paying for APs is a factor of wealth and thus inequitable, that reasoning doesn't make any sense. By far the greatest injection of inequity is the extra-curricular category, that weighs so much in US college admissions. The cost of APs, by comparison, is negligible.

So...?

Not all schools offer AP classes.
So....?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Congratulations on such an achievement!

In a perfect world, it should be determinative, just like the SAT (or ACT) since the College Board is a national organization and thus AP scores can be used to compare candidates coming from very different educational systems. This is because GPA is hard to trust - so many public schools have grade inflation, and each school weighs advanced courses differently, forcing colleges to recalculate GPA anyway.

And yet everything I've read seems to discount the importance of AP scores. I do not understand it. It's not really fair. Even if you hold that paying for APs is a factor of wealth and thus inequitable, that reasoning doesn't make any sense. By far the greatest injection of inequity is the extra-curricular category, that weighs so much in US college admissions. The cost of APs, by comparison, is negligible.

So...?

I agree. There is a high school near us that has an "AP for All" curriculum (meaning everyone takes AP classes - the non-AP versions don't exist). The school is known among parents for not being rigorous at all, almost no homework, and kids who take the AP tests, generally get 1's or 2's. But the college placements are amazing (Duke, Michigan, Cornell), because all the transcripts show 4.0s in 15+ AP classes. There really should be some check on this, but there isn't.

Apparently, you are the check. Are you a teacher or admin who has access to all the data? How do you know all those transcripts show 4.0 but most AP exams are 1s and 2s??

I don't understand this whole focus. A student's AP exam scores for all of their senior year AP classes aren't even available until after they graduate high school. There's no way of knowing what those scores are going to be before students have to decide which college acceptance they're going to take. Why is this even a question?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Congratulations on such an achievement!

In a perfect world, it should be determinative, just like the SAT (or ACT) since the College Board is a national organization and thus AP scores can be used to compare candidates coming from very different educational systems. This is because GPA is hard to trust - so many public schools have grade inflation, and each school weighs advanced courses differently, forcing colleges to recalculate GPA anyway.

And yet everything I've read seems to discount the importance of AP scores. I do not understand it. It's not really fair. Even if you hold that paying for APs is a factor of wealth and thus inequitable, that reasoning doesn't make any sense. By far the greatest injection of inequity is the extra-curricular category, that weighs so much in US college admissions. The cost of APs, by comparison, is negligible.

So...?

Not all schools offer AP classes.
So....?

PP you replied to. Some rigorous public magnets and private high schools have no APs, and hopefully college admissions officers recognize the effort that the students put in to earn their grades. In my kids' public school system (MCPS), where grade inflation is rampant, kids need the evidence of AP and test scores to prove that they haven't just been passed from grade to grade. MCPS magnet kids often try to self-study AP exams, both because they worry they'll be lumped in with the rest of MCPS, and because they're trying to one-up each other.

It's a whole lot of chaos for nothing, when a national set of exams (whether federal, state-led or private), would do so much to clear the field and bring some clarity into college admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Congratulations on such an achievement!

In a perfect world, it should be determinative, just like the SAT (or ACT) since the College Board is a national organization and thus AP scores can be used to compare candidates coming from very different educational systems. This is because GPA is hard to trust - so many public schools have grade inflation, and each school weighs advanced courses differently, forcing colleges to recalculate GPA anyway.

And yet everything I've read seems to discount the importance of AP scores. I do not understand it. It's not really fair. Even if you hold that paying for APs is a factor of wealth and thus inequitable, that reasoning doesn't make any sense. By far the greatest injection of inequity is the extra-curricular category, that weighs so much in US college admissions. The cost of APs, by comparison, is negligible.

So...?

I agree. There is a high school near us that has an "AP for All" curriculum (meaning everyone takes AP classes - the non-AP versions don't exist). The school is known among parents for not being rigorous at all, almost no homework, and kids who take the AP tests, generally get 1's or 2's. But the college placements are amazing (Duke, Michigan, Cornell), because all the transcripts show 4.0s in 15+ AP classes. There really should be some check on this, but there isn't.

Name the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this a real question or are you just here to brag about your kid? Are you really wondering whether all 5's on APs are going to help your child? Are you also wondering whether a 1550+ SAT will help in college admissions also, since in most cases SATs are self-reported also?

Don't be so weird about this. It's a real question. SAT has an obvious bump if high, but I know kids who take AP classes but due to sports decide not to take the test, or doesn't do as well.

If you are going to get offended, then maybe just don't respond.

New poster: the one you're dissing is absolutely correct. In your example now, the kid who takes AP classes but doesn't take the exam OR doesn't do well on the exam, will not submit his scores. This doesn't hurt that kid because, like TO, the self reporting of the AP scores is optional.

In your case, however, if your kid submits 5s, it may help a little. A 5 could still be around an 80% on each exam (or it could be around 100% on each exam). No way for an AO to tell. It is a small data point that indicates your kid may be ready for college. You already know this but are feigning that you're have no clue. That's why the one who you're being rude to asked, "Are you also wondering whether a 1550+ SAT will help in college admissions." It is a fair comparison. You well know it can help (after all, why would colleges even allow applicants to self report if it wasn't considered at all), it can't hurt, and this question wasn't needed. What may be needed (for you) is a "bravo" to your child, clap, clap, clap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Congratulations on such an achievement!

In a perfect world, it should be determinative, just like the SAT (or ACT) since the College Board is a national organization and thus AP scores can be used to compare candidates coming from very different educational systems. This is because GPA is hard to trust - so many public schools have grade inflation, and each school weighs advanced courses differently, forcing colleges to recalculate GPA anyway.

And yet everything I've read seems to discount the importance of AP scores. I do not understand it. It's not really fair. Even if you hold that paying for APs is a factor of wealth and thus inequitable, that reasoning doesn't make any sense. By far the greatest injection of inequity is the extra-curricular category, that weighs so much in US college admissions. The cost of APs, by comparison, is negligible.

So...?

I agree. There is a high school near us that has an "AP for All" curriculum (meaning everyone takes AP classes - the non-AP versions don't exist). The school is known among parents for not being rigorous at all, almost no homework, and kids who take the AP tests, generally get 1's or 2's. But the college placements are amazing (Duke, Michigan, Cornell), because all the transcripts show 4.0s in 15+ AP classes. There really should be some check on this, but there isn't.

Apparently, you are the check. Are you a teacher or admin who has access to all the data? How do you know all those transcripts show 4.0 but most AP exams are 1s and 2s??

I don't understand this whole focus. A student's AP exam scores for all of their senior year AP classes aren't even available until after they graduate high school. There's no way of knowing what those scores are going to be before students have to decide which college acceptance they're going to take. Why is this even a question?

It's a small school in NY. I know a dozen parents there and they all say the same thing. The kids aren't well prepared and they don't love the lack of rigor, but they know that putting their kids into one of the (many) rigorous NY publics is a recipe for being shut out of T20 schools (unless the kid is a superstar).

While that's true about AP scores for senior year, the kids at this school are taking 3+ "AP classes" per year starting freshman year. They just don't report test scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it can help. AOs have said so. There is one poster on here who for years has shown up in almost every thread to say they don’t matter. Ignore them.

Well, there is more than one. I certainly am one of them. I think that you all place way too much emphasis on the importance of AP exams. Most college admissions officers will say that they only help on the margin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Congratulations on such an achievement!

In a perfect world, it should be determinative, just like the SAT (or ACT) since the College Board is a national organization and thus AP scores can be used to compare candidates coming from very different educational systems. This is because GPA is hard to trust - so many public schools have grade inflation, and each school weighs advanced courses differently, forcing colleges to recalculate GPA anyway.

And yet everything I've read seems to discount the importance of AP scores. I do not understand it. It's not really fair. Even if you hold that paying for APs is a factor of wealth and thus inequitable, that reasoning doesn't make any sense. By far the greatest injection of inequity is the extra-curricular category, that weighs so much in US college admissions. The cost of APs, by comparison, is negligible.

So...?

I agree. There is a high school near us that has an "AP for All" curriculum (meaning everyone takes AP classes - the non-AP versions don't exist). The school is known among parents for not being rigorous at all, almost no homework, and kids who take the AP tests, generally get 1's or 2's. But the college placements are amazing (Duke, Michigan, Cornell), because all the transcripts show 4.0s in 15+ AP classes. There really should be some check on this, but there isn't.

Apparently, you are the check. Are you a teacher or admin who has access to all the data? How do you know all those transcripts show 4.0 but most AP exams are 1s and 2s??

I don't understand this whole focus. A student's AP exam scores for all of their senior year AP classes aren't even available until after they graduate high school. There's no way of knowing what those scores are going to be before students have to decide which college acceptance they're going to take. Why is this even a question?

It's a small school in NY. I know a dozen parents there and they all say the same thing. The kids aren't well prepared and they don't love the lack of rigor, but they know that putting their kids into one of the (many) rigorous NY publics is a recipe for being shut out of T20 schools (unless the kid is a superstar).

While that's true about AP scores for senior year, the kids at this school are taking 3+ "AP classes" per year starting freshman year. They just don't report test scores.

Again, name the school. You won’t be outing anyone, and those of us who actually know what we’re doing can do some research and see if you really know what you’re talking about or are reporting unsubstantiated gossip and just pulling numbers out of your ass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this a real question or are you just here to brag about your kid? Are you really wondering whether all 5's on APs are going to help your child? Are you also wondering whether a 1550+ SAT will help in college admissions also, since in most cases SATs are self-reported also?

Don't be so weird about this. It's a real question. SAT has an obvious bump if high, but I know kids who take AP classes but due to sports decide not to take the test, or doesn't do as well.

If you are going to get offended, then maybe just don't respond.

New poster: the one you're dissing is absolutely correct. In your example now, the kid who takes AP classes but doesn't take the exam OR doesn't do well on the exam, will not submit his scores. This doesn't hurt that kid because, like TO, the self reporting of the AP scores is optional.

In your case, however, if your kid submits 5s, it may help a little. A 5 could still be around an 80% on each exam (or it could be around 100% on each exam). No way for an AO to tell. It is a small data point that indicates your kid may be ready for college. You already know this but are feigning that you're have no clue. That's why the one who you're being rude to asked, "Are you also wondering whether a 1550+ SAT will help in college admissions." It is a fair comparison. You well know it can help (after all, why would colleges even allow applicants to self report if it wasn't considered at all), it can't hurt, and this question wasn't needed. What may be needed (for you) is a "bravo" to your child, clap, clap, clap.

+1,000. OP - you are looking for assurance and validation, but really, admissions at the most selective schools is holistic. Your kid's many 5's are great, but lots of kids with all-5s are rejected by top schools while kids with no AP scores at all (including IB school grads or kids from the most prestigious private school) are admitted due to other standout factors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it can help. AOs have said so. There is one poster on here who for years has shown up in almost every thread to say they don’t matter. Ignore them.

Well, there is more than one. I certainly am one of them. I think that you all place way too much emphasis on the importance of AP exams. Most college admissions officers will say that they only help on the margin.

That’s at least a more nuanced statement. The person who blanket states they are irrelevant should be banned from this forum. It’s untrue and irresponsible. I also think, especially at places like Emory, they’re sometimes trying to find evidence that a student they want to admit can do the work, especially kids coming from underresourced backgrounds not submitting SAT or ACT scores.