Stay in DCPS or ABA full time for 4 year old?

[Anonymous]

Keep in the program. Stay away from ABA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s the point of full time ABA? I would look for a private school or private placement before I would do that. It’s not clear this child needs any behaviors modified. She probably needs a setting where teachers have methods to engage her and teach basic literacy. If she is not engaging at all in PK4 then I think you need to look to upping the level of placement. Just because she doesn’t have behavior issues doesn’t mean she is accessing the curriculum.

but I’m not sure what full time ABA would mean. If it was my kid I would want her in a school, not a clinical setting dedicated to modifying her behavior. (and - I am not against ABA, I just don’t understand how full time ABA can be appropriate.)

At 3 years old 90 % of my services are provided at home, not in a “clinical setting”. The reason this is ideal vs a traditional school setting is programs can be tailored to the individual in their most natural environment, rather than trying to work with the individual in the context of the classroom schedule whilst working with the teacher and other students and other variables and distractions that make isolating new skills difficult to nearly impossible.

It provides an opportunity for the environment to be arranged in a way that’s most productive for the individual to grow and learn inside and outside of therapy sessions, it provides an opportunity for indirect and direct parent training, it provides an opportunity for parents to learn not only the how of what they see in therapy but also the why behind it.

At age 3 most parents choose to be in the room for all therapy sessions- this is fine with me unless/until it inhibits progress. If that point comes arrangements are made for open door sessions, video taping, real time observations, etc so that the parent can watch and learn and still ask questions while minimizing any distractions or interactions that may not be beneficial to learning. You simply don’t get this at school.

The amount of flexibility in home also far exceeds that at school. At school if I want to teach something new I need to get a new IEP, permissions, maybe find time within the school day, get a different classroom, etc. At home I can ask the parent, make a few updates, and be done with it.

At home I can work with the parents and family to identify needs across multiple areas without worrying about whether it fits into the IEP. I (along with the parents) control the goals, the way skills are taught, the environment, and many other things. At home my skills are not limited to just ending tantrums, whereas at school that may be what I’m limited to. In one home based session I might do matching, gross and fine motor skills, play skills, imitation skills, transitioning, decreasing tantrums, increasing compliance, visual performance, phonics/reading, number/math, multiple aspects of language (mand, tact, intraverbal, etc), play skills, self help skills, writing/pre-writing skills, auditory comprehension skills, social skills, safety skills, and much more. I control the frequency with which I do these- if they’re having trouble with something new I get to plan my sessions so that the last 30 minutes are to focus on those weaker skills. At school there’s just not that flexibility. Also, there are many skills that just don’t overlap across settings. Things like street crossing, riding in a car, community safety, accepting no, calculated disruptions, etc can rarely be addressed at school.

It’s not an exaggeration to say that within just within 3 hours I can focus on 20 skills but actually by design teach 60 skills. I can also answer questions as they come up for the family, work with other providers, & attend IEP meetings & advocate for the child’s needs (something you can’t do if employed by the school). I can go to a new situation a parent wants to try (usually a social situation with peers) and say yes I love this or absolutely not or maybe next year but first we need to do x,y, and z.

A home based ABA team is a resource that is just different from that which you get in school. At age 3 I’d almost always choose home based if given an option between a school and home setting. A hybrid school/home setting can also be effective depending on individual needs.

The child is 4 and needs to be taught to read and write soon, not how to compliantly sit in a chair or whatever. OP needs to research educational programs which are almost certainly not FT ABA much less home based ABA.

They cannot learn to read and write if they don’t have basic skills. ABA can help. Stop giving bad advice.

Wait what? You don't actually believe that. So many children with autism read and write early and can use that talent as a springboard to develop whatever the hell you consider "basic skills". That's unbelievable that you still believe that kind of 1950's nonsense that was used to deny people communication.

Read the post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here, thanks for all these responses and helpful to hear different perspectives. We are concerned primarily with ability to engage in basic classroom activities like even attending long enough to a story or lesson without spacing out/disengaging, not completing takes or transitioning to activities with the group, and social skills with peers. Less concerned about the academics which we think she has been able to acquire at developmentally appropriate rate between school and home.

We have already advocated for additional services with the DCPS IEP and understand she is getting as much as she qualifies for (3 hours sped teacher, 2 hours a month speech, 4 hours a month OT). We are supplementing with the private therapies in Floortime model but it is hard to fit this all in if she is in school full time. So it sounds like it would be hard to add ABA privately at home in sufficient hours to help her if we kept her at DCPS. If they won’t let us have push-in support from a therapist in the gen ed classroom, would a full-time ABA center based model be best? Or put her in a private daycare that allows push-in ABA or other therapist support in the classroom? It would hurt to have to pay out of pocket for daycare vs an ABA center that (I think?) could be covered by insurance, but I also wonder whether a full-time ABA center model would be right for her profile since she doesn’t have significant disruptive behaviors, and we don’t want her to pick that up there.

I would do the ABA center based. Intensive is best at this age.

[Anonymous]

Since you are in DC, I recommend PK4 at either a community based organization (CBO like communikids or appletree) which is free or a private PK4 option at a preschool. A CBO or private pay preschool should allow you to bring your own ABA into the school to support your child. This gives you the best of both options, your child benefits from being with neurotypical peers while receiving the appropriate individualized support. The only way DCPS allows parents to bring in private ABA provides is if is mandated by a specific lawsuit and this very rarely happens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Since you are in DC, I recommend PK4 at either a community based organization (CBO like communikids or appletree) which is free or a private PK4 option at a preschool. A CBO or private pay preschool should allow you to bring your own ABA into the school to support your child. This gives you the best of both options, your child benefits from being with neurotypical peers while receiving the appropriate individualized support. The only way DCPS allows parents to bring in private ABA provides is if is mandated by a specific lawsuit and this very rarely happens.

If she needs a 1:1 to access the curriculum then it is time to look at other educational settings. Charters are sometimes more generous with aides but then they are basically just babysitting. A school like Ivymount or Harbor might be better or a CES placement.

[Anonymous]

ABA

[Anonymous]

Definitely ABA.

[Anonymous]

Thanks everyone for the perspectives - really sounds like a therapy focused program or hybrid would be best and DCPS likely not an option. Appreciate all the insights as we are navigating this path with our child and learning as we go.

[Anonymous]

I would choose DCPS where the teachers have masters degrees and not an ABA center where we got kids barely out of undergrad lightly 'supervised' by BCBAs who had entirely too many cases to know my kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks everyone for the perspectives - really sounds like a therapy focused program or hybrid would be best and DCPS likely not an option. Appreciate all the insights as we are navigating this path with our child and learning as we go.

Why are you discarding DCPS without convening an IEP meeting to talk about your concerns? You’re likely to be in the same situation for K so it seems like you need to address your child’s possible higher support needs or explore alternative placements. Taking her out of school just kicks the can down the road. She will still have autism in a year and will still need to learn to read and write.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would choose DCPS where the teachers have masters degrees and not an ABA center where we got kids barely out of undergrad lightly 'supervised' by BCBAs who had entirely too many cases to know my kid.

+1. owned by a private equity firm. And many RBTs don’t even have any degree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would choose DCPS where the teachers have masters degrees and not an ABA center where we got kids barely out of undergrad lightly 'supervised' by BCBAs who had entirely too many cases to know my kid.

For a THREE YEAR OLD? You’d be hard pressed to find a clinic that would even take a 3 year old, this is a home based age. Please name the clinic, I need to investigate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here, thanks for all these responses and helpful to hear different perspectives. We are concerned primarily with ability to engage in basic classroom activities like even attending long enough to a story or lesson without spacing out/disengaging, not completing takes or transitioning to activities with the group, and social skills with peers. Less concerned about the academics which we think she has been able to acquire at developmentally appropriate rate between school and home.

We have already advocated for additional services with the DCPS IEP and understand she is getting as much as she qualifies for (3 hours sped teacher, 2 hours a month speech, 4 hours a month OT). We are supplementing with the private therapies in Floortime model but it is hard to fit this all in if she is in school full time. So it sounds like it would be hard to add ABA privately at home in sufficient hours to help her if we kept her at DCPS. If they won’t let us have push-in support from a therapist in the gen ed classroom, would a full-time ABA center based model be best? Or put her in a private daycare that allows push-in ABA or other therapist support in the classroom? It would hurt to have to pay out of pocket for daycare vs an ABA center that (I think?) could be covered by insurance, but I also wonder whether a full-time ABA center model would be right for her profile since she doesn’t have significant disruptive behaviors, and we don’t want her to pick that up there.

At 3 years old and never had ABA before I’d consider home based services (at least to start) over clinic/center model; however, this decision really comes down to assessments and needs and resources, for your child and family. So I do think you’re getting ahead of yourself trying to plan everything, just start with a behavioral evaluation, get an ABLLS-R & other assessments, and then discuss your options. When inquiring about a provider I would look for one that has home based services as an option or home based and clinic based. I would avoid anywhere that only offers clinic based at 3 years old.

If you choose DCPS plus ABA you could realistically get 2-3 hours per day plus 3-6 hours per day on weekends. However, it’s really best done this way for an established ABA program. You need a good 3-6 months to get a full home based ABA program running smoothly. It’s a lot of work up front and not something I’d recommend doing while also going to school. Now for K, once you have a year or 2 of home based, you might consider also having them also come a couple days a week after school or on the weekends. There’s many benefits to doing both, but for now though I’d pick one, either DCPS or ABA. Start with that behavioral assessment and then do what works best for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would choose DCPS where the teachers have masters degrees and not an ABA center where we got kids barely out of undergrad lightly 'supervised' by BCBAs who had entirely too many cases to know my kid.

For a THREE YEAR OLD? You’d be hard pressed to find a clinic that would even take a 3 year old, this is a home based age. Please name the clinic, I need to investigate.

Yikes, calm down, I missed the age. But my answer is the same. I'd definitely choose DCPS with experienced special ed teachers over a 22 year old kid with 6 weeks of training coming in to my home to try and 'help' my kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would choose DCPS where the teachers have masters degrees and not an ABA center where we got kids barely out of undergrad lightly 'supervised' by BCBAs who had entirely too many cases to know my kid.

For a THREE YEAR OLD? You’d be hard pressed to find a clinic that would even take a 3 year old, this is a home based age. Please name the clinic, I need to investigate.

Yikes, calm down, I missed the age. But my answer is the same. I'd definitely choose DCPS with experienced special ed teachers over a 22 year old kid with 6 weeks of training coming in to my home to try and 'help' my kid.

+1. a full time ABA program with no actual teachers for a kid approaching 4 is very “suss” as the kids say.