Why does MCPS crow about its greatness so much? And why do MCPS teachers and parents crow too?

[Anonymous]

Parent of a MCPs K here. I am soooo unimpressed with what I've seen so far. Lots of worksheets and time in "centers" while the teacher can do testing. She still hasn't started her reading groups. I wish we could afford private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MoCo does do an amazingly great job with the sheer volume of different issues it faces. Far better than PG, Charles and other counties. So it crows because it can.

I'm from MA too and comparing a town (which even the largest is miniscule compared to MoCo) is like comparing apples to oranges. Even the bureaucracy at the county level changes everything.

OP here. You are right that comparing a town-based school system to a county-based one is not an apples-to-apples exercise, and I should have been more careful in my wording in my original post. (I wish DCUM had an editing feature.)

Leaving aside how school systems are organized, it is my impression that MCPS does a lot of self-congratulating, and not just in respect of comparison to other large systems (like PG County or Charles) or with respect to the good job it does grappling with the needs of different socioeconomic groups, but in general. And I think the PPs are right that the self-aggrandizement is partly about keeping real estate prices up, and partly about self-reassurance (borne of insecurity? I don't know).

RE evaluating school systems, given how differently they are organized in different parts of the country (e.g. town versus county), how are they evaluated, anyway, relative to each other? There are rankings out there (I think) but how do they compare e.g. MCPS or FCPC to say, the Newton MA or Wellesley MA school systems?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a Massachusetts town (yes, a town - not a county) with one of the best school systems in the country. We all knew it was a great school system, but it wasn't talked about that much because, well, it just *was*. If people were thinking about moving, or if there was a town meeting with school issues on the agenda (can you imagine, a town meeting where you have an actual VOICE?), then the quality of the school system (and other school systems' quality) was discussed, but outside of that, it wasn't really a topic of discussion.

Here in Montgomery County, on the other hand, people yap about MCPS and its many merits constantly. I'm always hearing about how we are A-#1, the best in the country, yadda yadda yadda.

Why is this such a *thing* to talk about here? Is it because relative to e.g. PG County or other Southern states, MCPS is indeed very good? I agree that it is a good system, but the "best"? It's not better than the systems my nieces and nephews are in, in New England (i.e. the ones that don't crow about themselves all the time). It is probably comparable.

What is up with this? Before moving here, I'd never seen anything like it.

The cynical answer?

Apparently, because school system reputation can be monetized -- see MoCo Superintendent Weast's recent (and very sudden) deal to sell the MoCo brand to Pearson Publishing for joint development of a curriculum that could then be marketed to other school systems nationally thus earning royalties for MoCo. This deal was presented to the School Board and approved on only 48 hours notice. (Shame on them). Many details of the deal are still blacked out/secret. There has been little community input into this. Many questions exist -- how will this affect curriculum development, how much is the county investing in dollar terms, what is the expected return, is the new curriculum and associated materials being tested out inappropriately on the backs of MoCo students, how does the deal affect the future pitch of MoCo in terms of accelerated and gifted opportunities, etc.

Also because a good school and school system means tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars difference in home value (and property taxes).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MoCo does do an amazingly great job with the sheer volume of different issues it faces. Far better than PG, Charles and other counties. So it crows because it can.

I'm from MA too and comparing a town (which even the largest is miniscule compared to MoCo) is like comparing apples to oranges. Even the bureaucracy at the county level changes everything.

OP here. You are right that comparing a town-based school system to a county-based one is not an apples-to-apples exercise, and I should have been more careful in my wording in my original post. (I wish DCUM had an editing feature.)

Leaving aside how school systems are organized, it is my impression that MCPS does a lot of self-congratulating, and not just in respect of comparison to other large systems (like PG County or Charles) or with respect to the good job it does grappling with the needs of different socioeconomic groups, but in general. And I think the PPs are right that the self-aggrandizement is partly about keeping real estate prices up, and partly about self-reassurance (borne of insecurity? I don't know).

RE evaluating school systems, given how differently they are organized in different parts of the country (e.g. town versus county), how are they evaluated, anyway, relative to each other? There are rankings out there (I think) but how do they compare e.g. MCPS or FCPC to say, the Newton MA or Wellesley MA school systems?

Yes, there are rankings out there. For example you can compare school systems or even specific schools in one state to another @ www.schooldigger.com, but I would caution to take any rankings with a grain of salt. I don't think these rankings really tell you much of anything at all ... and there are all sorts of intangibles and subjective measures that make the exercise of ranking a futile sport.

[Anonymous]

OP, I suspect that if you went back to your Massachusetts town you'd find just as much crowing. We were recently looking for a house near Bosto and found plenty of school system boosters in Newton, Brookline, etc. The change in the times may be more important here than the change in geography.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I suspect that if you went back to your Massachusetts town you'd find just as much crowing. We were recently looking for a house near Bosto and found plenty of school system boosters in Newton, Brookline, etc. The change in the times may be more important here than the change in geography.

I grew up in that area and even back then by the time I got to high school I was pretty aware of the crowing about how great we were.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MoCo does do an amazingly great job with the sheer volume of different issues it faces. Far better than PG, Charles and other counties. So it crows because it can.

I'm from MA too and comparing a town (which even the largest is miniscule compared to MoCo) is like comparing apples to oranges. Even the bureaucracy at the county level changes everything.

OP here. You are right that comparing a town-based school system to a county-based one is not an apples-to-apples exercise, and I should have been more careful in my wording in my original post. (I wish DCUM had an editing feature.)

Leaving aside how school systems are organized, it is my impression that MCPS does a lot of self-congratulating, and not just in respect of comparison to other large systems (like PG County or Charles) or with respect to the good job it does grappling with the needs of different socioeconomic groups, but in general. And I think the PPs are right that the self-aggrandizement is partly about keeping real estate prices up, and partly about self-reassurance (borne of insecurity? I don't know).

RE evaluating school systems, given how differently they are organized in different parts of the country (e.g. town versus county), how are they evaluated, anyway, relative to each other? There are rankings out there (I think) but how do they compare e.g. MCPS or FCPC to say, the Newton MA or Wellesley MA school systems?

Yes, there are rankings out there. For example you can compare school systems or even specific schools in one state to another @ www.schooldigger.com, but I would caution to take any rankings with a grain of salt. I don't think these rankings really tell you much of anything at all ... and there are all sorts of intangibles and subjective measures that make the exercise of ranking a futile sport.

That's the thing - how can any ranking system compare e.g. a town-based school system (where the town population of say 50,000 yields say 10,000 K-12 students) with a county-based one, in any meaningful way?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a Massachusetts town (yes, a town - not a county) with one of the best school systems in the country. We all knew it was a great school system, but it wasn't talked about that much because, well, it just *was*. If people were thinking about moving, or if there was a town meeting with school issues on the agenda (can you imagine, a town meeting where you have an actual VOICE?), then the quality of the school system (and other school systems' quality) was discussed, but outside of that, it wasn't really a topic of discussion.

Here in Montgomery County, on the other hand, people yap about MCPS and its many merits constantly. I'm always hearing about how we are A-#1, the best in the country, yadda yadda yadda.

Why is this such a *thing* to talk about here? Is it because relative to e.g. PG County or other Southern states, MCPS is indeed very good? I agree that it is a good system, but the "best"? It's not better than the systems my nieces and nephews are in, in New England (i.e. the ones that don't crow about themselves all the time). It is probably comparable.

What is up with this? Before moving here, I'd never seen anything like it.

The cynical answer?

Apparently, because school system reputation can be monetized -- see MoCo Superintendent Weast's recent (and very sudden) deal to sell the MoCo brand to Pearson Publishing for joint development of a curriculum that could then be marketed to other school systems nationally thus earning royalties for MoCo. This deal was presented to the School Board and approved on only 48 hours notice. (Shame on them). Many details of the deal are still blacked out/secret. There has been little community input into this. Many questions exist -- how will this affect curriculum development, how much is the county investing in dollar terms, what is the expected return, is the new curriculum and associated materials being tested out inappropriately on the backs of MoCo students, how does the deal affect the future pitch of MoCo in terms of accelerated and gifted opportunities, etc.

Also because a good school and school system means tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars difference in home value (and property taxes).

I'm cynical too. Where I am from on Long Island, in general the affluent areas had good schools. You still had people getting a decent education from the lower-middle class areas too. I just looked up my old elementary school and it is a Blue Ribbon school and lets say my school was 98% minority back then. The only thing I can think of is because there are districts nearby Montgomery County that aren't doing as well that ups the ante so to speak of being in Montgomery or Fairfax County.

[Anonymous]

Well New England and the Middles States is one thing, but try enrolling your dc in one of the southern or southwestern US systems. We had the opportunity to transfer to just about anywhere in those areas. As a former educator, the education of my dc was of course a priority. After researching (and comparing) school systems, guess what we chose to do? Stay right here in MoCo! No, MoCo is not by any means an educational utopia, but it does provide one of the most impressive educations in the country.

[Anonymous]

OP,I agree, there are tons of very good school sytems in New England, MC is compared to DC so it looks fantastic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Really? I am completely freaked out about starting MCPS next year and decided to suck up and pay for private kindergarten this year just to avoid it. I am in one of the clusters with the highest rankings but that is exactly the problem I hear from parents..too much testing and not enough learning.

This. And I've had kids in both private and MCPS.

[Anonymous]

10:52 hit the nail on the head...it's about the money. Isn't it always?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MoCo does do an amazingly great job with the sheer volume of different issues it faces. Far better than PG, Charles and other counties. So it crows because it can.

I'm from MA too and comparing a town (which even the largest is miniscule compared to MoCo) is like comparing apples to oranges. Even the bureaucracy at the county level changes everything.

OP here. You are right that comparing a town-based school system to a county-based one is not an apples-to-apples exercise, and I should have been more careful in my wording in my original post. (I wish DCUM had an editing feature.)

Leaving aside how school systems are organized, it is my impression that MCPS does a lot of self-congratulating, and not just in respect of comparison to other large systems (like PG County or Charles) or with respect to the good job it does grappling with the needs of different socioeconomic groups, but in general. And I think the PPs are right that the self-aggrandizement is partly about keeping real estate prices up, and partly about self-reassurance (borne of insecurity? I don't know).

RE evaluating school systems, given how differently they are organized in different parts of the country (e.g. town versus county), how are they evaluated, anyway, relative to each other? There are rankings out there (I think) but how do they compare e.g. MCPS or FCPC to say, the Newton MA or Wellesley MA school systems?

Yes, there are rankings out there. For example you can compare school systems or even specific schools in one state to another @ www.schooldigger.com, but I would caution to take any rankings with a grain of salt. I don't think these rankings really tell you much of anything at all ... and there are all sorts of intangibles and subjective measures that make the exercise of ranking a futile sport.

That's the thing - how can any ranking system compare e.g. a town-based school system (where the town population of say 50,000 yields say 10,000 K-12 students) with a county-based one, in any meaningful way?

You look at individual schools for each piece of real estate you would buy within each district. If a large district you should consider boundary changes although many logical changes never happen due to real estate/property values.

What is the private school application and sending rate at each level? For FCPS include the TJ sending at HS and AAP/GTC for elementary and middle. Do many taxpayers in the district attend school board meetings?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I suspect that if you went back to your Massachusetts town you'd find just as much crowing. We were recently looking for a house near Bosto and found plenty of school system boosters in Newton, Brookline, etc. The change in the times may be more important here than the change in geography.

I grew up in that area and even back then by the time I got to high school I was pretty aware of the crowing about how great we were.

I agree that it is likely a sign of the times, a change between generations, than an actual difference between MCPS and the MA town. No CHild Left Behind and other policies have created data that make it possible to compare very easily. The Internet has made transfer of that information easy.

[Anonymous]

I'll tell you, at least we have options here. We tried to 'escape' this area a few years back--going further north, or further south, or midwest. There would be the option of 2-3 high schools, and 1 or 2 elementaries within each town/district. And god forbid if you had a child who was either high performing, had special learning needs, a new English learner, or needed any kind of support. Tough luck.

MoCo has been on and off my S list for the yrs. I've dealt w/them, but I do appreciate the money they do have, and how they do attempt to serve all kinds of kids. And we have ALL KINDS OF KIDS here.