Ugh, our school just switched to Everyday Math

[Anonymous]

When my kids were in a very expensive private school, my neighbor's kids were doing EM in their FCPS elementary. I was actually pretty impressed at the problem solving strategies they were learning. They were really learning to think about the problem, and yes, get an understanding of how it applies to our everyday lives. I happen to think that's great. My kids on the other hand were just doing repetetive math problems ad nauseum and learing how to solve them pretty much one way, like rote learning. I'd go for the EM, but that's just me.

[Anonymous]

I think it is easier for parents to supplement the learning of math facts at home a bit, if needed, whereas it would be much harder to supplement the more indepth problem solving and conceptual thinking that EDM can provide. But good math teachers ensure that the kids get both.

[Anonymous]

Another FCPS AAP parent here who likes EDM - if it's taught well.

I've learned a lot about math from helping my oldest with it and have enjoyed learning different ways to solve problems. I think our math inclined DS who will start it this year in AAP will like it.

I grew up with drill and kill and while I always did well in math class, I had no clue what was behind it and that there are numerous algorithms available to choose from.

In fact my niece who also does EDM in a neighboring school district just showed me yet another quick and unusual way to do long division that her teacher showed her since she didn't like the EDM methods. I think it really stretches the brain in great ways.

We have always had to supplement with some fact memorization though. My only complaint is that some teachers in FCPS don't do any fact review and neglect to tell parents that they should encourage a few minutes a week on it at home.

[Anonymous]

Everyday math is a great program. While going to college I learned how to use it correctly. It shouldn't be the only program used though. It has helped many children learn there are other ways to solve a problem.

I know many states who use EDM. I went to an out of state college and they used it there.

[Anonymous]

Much more important to understand concepts than to know the facts? How about the possibility of procedural fluency leading to understanding? And if you don't have the facts on command, then concepts aren't going to be much help for a problem like: "If pencils cost 25 cents a piece and John buys 3 pencils and pays for them with a five dollar bill, how much change does he get back?"

As for teachers knowing how to teach EDM, the fact remains: EDM doesn't use a textbook, just a workbook. The Student Reference Manual is just a big glossary. The teacher has the teacher's manual which provides the written explanations that neither the students (nor the parents) see. Thus, if a student doesn't understand something, they msut either "discuss" it (usually in a group with other students) or are pulled aside by the teacher who recognizes that the student doesn't understand, and the student is then given the Student Reference Manual to read. Lacking from EDM are worked examples and explanations. And while doing many problems is painted as mere exercises, there are ways to present problems that are structured with increasing difficulty to provide scaffolding, which results in the "discovery" aspect of learning that everyone seems to think occurs with EDM and other NSF-funded atrocities.

I've experienced EDM with my daughter directly and in helping tutor students who had EDM in school. I have seen very bright students profoundly confused because they felt confused by the three or four multiplication algorithms they had been taught,(none of which were the standard one by the way) because they thought certain algorithms were needed for certain problems. There are very fine math programs, including Singapore's that teaches both concept and procedure. And yes students have to work problems in order to achieve mastery. EDM doesn't care about mastery, so everyone is happy that there's no "drill and kill". As for the spiral method, if they don't get it the first time around, how do you build upon something when there's no mastery? Answer: You don't.

See http://www.educationnews.org/commentaries/13361.html

and also http://www.educationnews.org/commentaries/opinions_on_education/93277.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm the oddball that likes Everyday Math. I spoke with a math teacher that I met randomly and she said a lot of math teachers like it. As the PP above said, it depends on whether they are well trained.

Are you in public or private school? From our experience, the MCPS that DD went to did not provide the support or training to the teachers therefore the teachers did not like it all. The private that DD is in also uses Everyday Math but the teachers are given the time and training to learn to teach it properly. So far so good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it is easier for parents to supplement the learning of math facts at home a bit, if needed, whereas it would be much harder to supplement the more indepth problem solving and conceptual thinking that EDM can provide. But good math teachers ensure that the kids get both.

My DC's did not get indepth problem solving and conceptual thinking from the ED at their school.

[Anonymous]

Everyday Math is very, very, very light. The vast majority of children taking Everyday Math will not be prepared for Algebra.

And all the studies that purported that Everyday Math was a better curriculum than "traditional" math could not be replicated.

The only folks who benefit from Everyday Math are the founders of Kumon tutoring centers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Much more important to understand concepts than to know the facts? How about the possibility of procedural fluency leading to understanding? And if you don't have the facts on command, then concepts aren't going to be much help for a problem like: "If pencils cost 25 cents a piece and John buys 3 pencils and pays for them with a five dollar bill, how much change does he get back?"

As for teachers knowing how to teach EDM, the fact remains: EDM doesn't use a textbook, just a workbook. The Student Reference Manual is just a big glossary. The teacher has the teacher's manual which provides the written explanations that neither the students (nor the parents) see. Thus, if a student doesn't understand something, they msut either "discuss" it (usually in a group with other students) or are pulled aside by the teacher who recognizes that the student doesn't understand, and the student is then given the Student Reference Manual to read. Lacking from EDM are worked examples and explanations. And while doing many problems is painted as mere exercises, there are ways to present problems that are structured with increasing difficulty to provide scaffolding, which results in the "discovery" aspect of learning that everyone seems to think occurs with EDM and other NSF-funded atrocities.

I've experienced EDM with my daughter directly and in helping tutor students who had EDM in school. I have seen very bright students profoundly confused because they felt confused by the three or four multiplication algorithms they had been taught,(none of which were the standard one by the way) because they thought certain algorithms were needed for certain problems. There are very fine math programs, including Singapore's that teaches both concept and procedure. And yes students have to work problems in order to achieve mastery. EDM doesn't care about mastery, so everyone is happy that there's no "drill and kill". As for the spiral method, if they don't get it the first time around, how do you build upon something when there's no mastery? Answer: You don't.

See http://www.educationnews.org/commentaries/13361.html

and also http://www.educationnews.org/commentaries/opinions_on_education/93277.html

We always get those "home link" pages. They explain what is coming up in the entire chapter. Those seem to be enough explanation to know what my child is doing so I can work with her to understand.

[Anonymous]

I have copies of the Student Reference Manuals at home ... I bought them on Ebay (or used from amazon.com) and have them on the shelf at home. I have never needed to use them but I like knowing I have them. It has been said before, but the strength of the math teacher determines whether EDM works for each child. Some children require more practice to achieve mastery than others. EDM often requires a student to do a particular type of problem about 5 times for homework and that's it. For many children this will be sufficient ... for others, clearly not. The teachers (and parents) need to identify those kids who could benefit from more practice ... the good ones do.

I completely agree that children need those math facts nailed down solid ... but I am not sure they need them on quite as rigid or early of a schedule as some people do. For example, if a second grader knows most of his basic math facts by the end of the year but still gets 8 + 7 or 9 + 5 wrong every now and then, I don't judge the math program as a complete failure. That same child does need those facts nailed down by the end of third and should have most of the multiplication facts but maybe miss just a few of them. By end of fourth, the multiplication facts should be nailed down by converting fractions to decimals may be incomplete ... and on and on.

[Anonymous]

Here are some in-depth academic studies from the Dep't of Education on EDM: http://ies.ed.gov/ncee/wwc/reports/elementary_math/eday_math/index.asp . And here is a comparison to several other curricula: http://ies.ed.gov/ncee/wwc/reports/topicarea.aspx?tid=04 . EDM seems to come out pretty well.