Is residency fraud a real issue or is it overblown?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been living in the DC area for decades and know DC, MoCo, Howard and Fairfax public schools.

DCPS is an academic disaster compared to MCPS and FCPS (and some smaller, more homogeneous public school systems further out). Some charter schools are just OK, but none of them hold a candle to the best MCPS and FCPS school clusters.

Very few families are in such logistical straights as to want to place their kids in DCPS if they live in MD or VA.

If you've lived in DC for decades you know that residency fraud has been an issue. Lots of MD folks wanting to take advantage of free PK3 & PK4. Also convenience and being able to use grandma (who still lives in DC) for childcare. Close-in PG County schools are just okay.

PP you replied to. I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I'm saying it's not as dire as some would make it out to be.

I also have a theory on the marked decrease in residency fraud threads on DCUM: the average age of posters have gone up with time, so maybe in the past, there was a perfect storm of more posters with younger kids, who were noticing potential residential fraud at their DCPS schools, by families with preschool aged kids who then continued on to DCPS elementaries. But since DCPS gets worse the higher you go, middle school is a time of attrition to private or better suburban schools (and parents start to realize that MD or VA residency guarantees in-state tuition at UMD, UVA, etc), and kids become self-sufficient enough to not need adult supervision after school. So now that a plurality of DCUM posters are older, their kids have passed the age where they would notice such residential fraud.

All of this.

I have no special knowledge, but I think the city did a big data match a few years ago and that's why so many city employees were caught doing residency fraud. And that may have made people more cautious about doing it.

I also think that, aside from preschool, there are certainly DC residents sneaking into Maryland schools too. If we had to pay Maryland for that, and Maryland had to pay us for their residents, I'm not sure which state would come out ahead. This isn't necessarily the cost savings people think it is.

What you may fail to understand it that if Marylanders cheat DC schools, then that stops the poorer DC residents from any legal opportunity to go to a higher performing school. It’s not just money, it’s a moral failing on those families parts. And I can only imagine what it does to raise a child who knows they are cheating and is taught the rules don’t apply to them. It’s so gross.

[Anonymous]

This does not make sense!
What kind of economics these people are following to pay for “rental” in DC just to access a DC public school? If they can afford that, they can afford much better quality private schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been living in the DC area for decades and know DC, MoCo, Howard and Fairfax public schools.

DCPS is an academic disaster compared to MCPS and FCPS (and some smaller, more homogeneous public school systems further out). Some charter schools are just OK, but none of them hold a candle to the best MCPS and FCPS school clusters.

Very few families are in such logistical straights as to want to place their kids in DCPS if they live in MD or VA.

If you've lived in DC for decades you know that residency fraud has been an issue. Lots of MD folks wanting to take advantage of free PK3 & PK4. Also convenience and being able to use grandma (who still lives in DC) for childcare. Close-in PG County schools are just okay.

PP you replied to. I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I'm saying it's not as dire as some would make it out to be.

I also have a theory on the marked decrease in residency fraud threads on DCUM: the average age of posters have gone up with time, so maybe in the past, there was a perfect storm of more posters with younger kids, who were noticing potential residential fraud at their DCPS schools, by families with preschool aged kids who then continued on to DCPS elementaries. But since DCPS gets worse the higher you go, middle school is a time of attrition to private or better suburban schools (and parents start to realize that MD or VA residency guarantees in-state tuition at UMD, UVA, etc), and kids become self-sufficient enough to not need adult supervision after school. So now that a plurality of DCUM posters are older, their kids have passed the age where they would notice such residential fraud.

All of this.

I have no special knowledge, but I think the city did a big data match a few years ago and that's why so many city employees were caught doing residency fraud. And that may have made people more cautious about doing it.

I also think that, aside from preschool, there are certainly DC residents sneaking into Maryland schools too. If we had to pay Maryland for that, and Maryland had to pay us for their residents, I'm not sure which state would come out ahead. This isn't necessarily the cost savings people think it is.

What you may fail to understand it that if Marylanders cheat DC schools, then that stops the poorer DC residents from any legal opportunity to go to a higher performing school. It’s not just money, it’s a moral failing on those families parts. And I can only imagine what it does to raise a child who knows they are cheating and is taught the rules don’t apply to them. It’s so gross.

No, I understand, but I think in actuality the number of MD residents at higher-performing schools and schools that don't take all applicants isn't that big. It's amazing how people will sneak into low performing schools but I suppose it's for logistical or family reasons. And again, the same logic applies to DC folks sneaking into MD schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This does not make sense!
What kind of economics these people are following to pay for “rental” in DC just to access a DC public school? If they can afford that, they can afford much better quality private schools.

You can rent a studio for $2k/mo. $24k is much cheaper than most privates, especially if you have more than one kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been living in the DC area for decades and know DC, MoCo, Howard and Fairfax public schools.

DCPS is an academic disaster compared to MCPS and FCPS (and some smaller, more homogeneous public school systems further out). Some charter schools are just OK, but none of them hold a candle to the best MCPS and FCPS school clusters.

Very few families are in such logistical straights as to want to place their kids in DCPS if they live in MD or VA.

If you've lived in DC for decades you know that residency fraud has been an issue. Lots of MD folks wanting to take advantage of free PK3 & PK4. Also convenience and being able to use grandma (who still lives in DC) for childcare. Close-in PG County schools are just okay.

PP you replied to. I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I'm saying it's not as dire as some would make it out to be.

I also have a theory on the marked decrease in residency fraud threads on DCUM: the average age of posters have gone up with time, so maybe in the past, there was a perfect storm of more posters with younger kids, who were noticing potential residential fraud at their DCPS schools, by families with preschool aged kids who then continued on to DCPS elementaries. But since DCPS gets worse the higher you go, middle school is a time of attrition to private or better suburban schools (and parents start to realize that MD or VA residency guarantees in-state tuition at UMD, UVA, etc), and kids become self-sufficient enough to not need adult supervision after school. So now that a plurality of DCUM posters are older, their kids have passed the age where they would notice such residential fraud.

All of this.

I have no special knowledge, but I think the city did a big data match a few years ago and that's why so many city employees were caught doing residency fraud. And that may have made people more cautious about doing it.

I also think that, aside from preschool, there are certainly DC residents sneaking into Maryland schools too. If we had to pay Maryland for that, and Maryland had to pay us for their residents, I'm not sure which state would come out ahead. This isn't necessarily the cost savings people think it is.

What you may fail to understand it that if Marylanders cheat DC schools, then that stops the poorer DC residents from any legal opportunity to go to a higher performing school. It’s not just money, it’s a moral failing on those families parts. And I can only imagine what it does to raise a child who knows they are cheating and is taught the rules don’t apply to them. It’s so gross.

No, I understand, but I think in actuality the number of MD residents at higher-performing schools and schools that don't take all applicants isn't that big. It's amazing how people will sneak into low performing schools but I suppose it's for logistical or family reasons. And again, the same logic applies to DC folks sneaking into MD schools.

Which is also wrong.

[Anonymous]

There are a huge number of people living in DC with cars registered in Maryland and--especially--Virginia. You don't have to live in Virginia to register your car there. The Baltimore Banner reported last month that more than 100,000 vehicles are registered in Virginia but with Maryland addresses. Virginia registration costs are lower and it's harder to enforce camera violations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been living in the DC area for decades and know DC, MoCo, Howard and Fairfax public schools.

DCPS is an academic disaster compared to MCPS and FCPS (and some smaller, more homogeneous public school systems further out). Some charter schools are just OK, but none of them hold a candle to the best MCPS and FCPS school clusters.

Very few families are in such logistical straights as to want to place their kids in DCPS if they live in MD or VA.

If you've lived in DC for decades you know that residency fraud has been an issue. Lots of MD folks wanting to take advantage of free PK3 & PK4. Also convenience and being able to use grandma (who still lives in DC) for childcare. Close-in PG County schools are just okay.

PP you replied to. I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I'm saying it's not as dire as some would make it out to be.

I also have a theory on the marked decrease in residency fraud threads on DCUM: the average age of posters have gone up with time, so maybe in the past, there was a perfect storm of more posters with younger kids, who were noticing potential residential fraud at their DCPS schools, by families with preschool aged kids who then continued on to DCPS elementaries. But since DCPS gets worse the higher you go, middle school is a time of attrition to private or better suburban schools (and parents start to realize that MD or VA residency guarantees in-state tuition at UMD, UVA, etc), and kids become self-sufficient enough to not need adult supervision after school. So now that a plurality of DCUM posters are older, their kids have passed the age where they would notice such residential fraud.

All of this.

I have no special knowledge, but I think the city did a big data match a few years ago and that's why so many city employees were caught doing residency fraud. And that may have made people more cautious about doing it.

I also think that, aside from preschool, there are certainly DC residents sneaking into Maryland schools too. If we had to pay Maryland for that, and Maryland had to pay us for their residents, I'm not sure which state would come out ahead. This isn't necessarily the cost savings people think it is.

What you may fail to understand it that if Marylanders cheat DC schools, then that stops the poorer DC residents from any legal opportunity to go to a higher performing school. It’s not just money, it’s a moral failing on those families parts. And I can only imagine what it does to raise a child who knows they are cheating and is taught the rules don’t apply to them. It’s so gross.

No, I understand, but I think in actuality the number of MD residents at higher-performing schools and schools that don't take all applicants isn't that big. It's amazing how people will sneak into low performing schools but I suppose it's for logistical or family reasons. And again, the same logic applies to DC folks sneaking into MD schools.

Which is also wrong.

Well yes, but it also means cracking down on it would not have the budget or enrollment impact you might think it does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been living in the DC area for decades and know DC, MoCo, Howard and Fairfax public schools.

DCPS is an academic disaster compared to MCPS and FCPS (and some smaller, more homogeneous public school systems further out). Some charter schools are just OK, but none of them hold a candle to the best MCPS and FCPS school clusters.

Very few families are in such logistical straights as to want to place their kids in DCPS if they live in MD or VA.

If you've lived in DC for decades you know that residency fraud has been an issue. Lots of MD folks wanting to take advantage of free PK3 & PK4. Also convenience and being able to use grandma (who still lives in DC) for childcare. Close-in PG County schools are just okay.

PP you replied to. I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I'm saying it's not as dire as some would make it out to be.

I also have a theory on the marked decrease in residency fraud threads on DCUM: the average age of posters have gone up with time, so maybe in the past, there was a perfect storm of more posters with younger kids, who were noticing potential residential fraud at their DCPS schools, by families with preschool aged kids who then continued on to DCPS elementaries. But since DCPS gets worse the higher you go, middle school is a time of attrition to private or better suburban schools (and parents start to realize that MD or VA residency guarantees in-state tuition at UMD, UVA, etc), and kids become self-sufficient enough to not need adult supervision after school. So now that a plurality of DCUM posters are older, their kids have passed the age where they would notice such residential fraud.

All of this.

I have no special knowledge, but I think the city did a big data match a few years ago and that's why so many city employees were caught doing residency fraud. And that may have made people more cautious about doing it.

I also think that, aside from preschool, there are certainly DC residents sneaking into Maryland schools too. If we had to pay Maryland for that, and Maryland had to pay us for their residents, I'm not sure which state would come out ahead. This isn't necessarily the cost savings people think it is.

What you may fail to understand it that if Marylanders cheat DC schools, then that stops the poorer DC residents from any legal opportunity to go to a higher performing school. It’s not just money, it’s a moral failing on those families parts. And I can only imagine what it does to raise a child who knows they are cheating and is taught the rules don’t apply to them. It’s so gross.

No, I understand, but I think in actuality the number of MD residents at higher-performing schools and schools that don't take all applicants isn't that big. It's amazing how people will sneak into low performing schools but I suppose it's for logistical or family reasons. And again, the same logic applies to DC folks sneaking into MD schools.

Which is also wrong.

Well yes, but it also means cracking down on it would not have the budget or enrollment impact you might think it does.

I’m less concerned with budget than I am with socioeconomic outcomes for kids and families. Fact of the matter is, that rich people cheat more and it benefits them more.

[Anonymous]

Someone has been using my home address to commit residency fraud for nine years. Their once 3rd grader is now an 11th grader at an application high school. I have reported it twice a year for nine years. No one has followed up once. I get this kid's report cards, truancy notices, forms, etc etc etc in the mail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This does not make sense!
What kind of economics these people are following to pay for “rental” in DC just to access a DC public school? If they can afford that, they can afford much better quality private schools.

You can rent a studio for $2k/mo. $24k is much cheaper than most privates, especially if you have more than one kid.

Exactly- but good private schools provide financial aid packages and the remainder would be sometimes less than rental. Even for more than one kid.
The point is to go through this hassle for.. public education in DC, unless this is for ward 3 schools or prek.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been living in the DC area for decades and know DC, MoCo, Howard and Fairfax public schools.

DCPS is an academic disaster compared to MCPS and FCPS (and some smaller, more homogeneous public school systems further out). Some charter schools are just OK, but none of them hold a candle to the best MCPS and FCPS school clusters.

Very few families are in such logistical straights as to want to place their kids in DCPS if they live in MD or VA.

If you've lived in DC for decades you know that residency fraud has been an issue. Lots of MD folks wanting to take advantage of free PK3 & PK4. Also convenience and being able to use grandma (who still lives in DC) for childcare. Close-in PG County schools are just okay.

PP you replied to. I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I'm saying it's not as dire as some would make it out to be.

I also have a theory on the marked decrease in residency fraud threads on DCUM: the average age of posters have gone up with time, so maybe in the past, there was a perfect storm of more posters with younger kids, who were noticing potential residential fraud at their DCPS schools, by families with preschool aged kids who then continued on to DCPS elementaries. But since DCPS gets worse the higher you go, middle school is a time of attrition to private or better suburban schools (and parents start to realize that MD or VA residency guarantees in-state tuition at UMD, UVA, etc), and kids become self-sufficient enough to not need adult supervision after school. So now that a plurality of DCUM posters are older, their kids have passed the age where they would notice such residential fraud.

All of this.

I have no special knowledge, but I think the city did a big data match a few years ago and that's why so many city employees were caught doing residency fraud. And that may have made people more cautious about doing it.

I also think that, aside from preschool, there are certainly DC residents sneaking into Maryland schools too. If we had to pay Maryland for that, and Maryland had to pay us for their residents, I'm not sure which state would come out ahead. This isn't necessarily the cost savings people think it is.

What you may fail to understand it that if Marylanders cheat DC schools, then that stops the poorer DC residents from any legal opportunity to go to a higher performing school. It’s not just money, it’s a moral failing on those families parts. And I can only imagine what it does to raise a child who knows they are cheating and is taught the rules don’t apply to them. It’s so gross.

No, I understand, but I think in actuality the number of MD residents at higher-performing schools and schools that don't take all applicants isn't that big. It's amazing how people will sneak into low performing schools but I suppose it's for logistical or family reasons. And again, the same logic applies to DC folks sneaking into MD schools.

Which is also wrong.

Well yes, but it also means cracking down on it would not have the budget or enrollment impact you might think it does.

I’m less concerned with budget than I am with socioeconomic outcomes for kids and families. Fact of the matter is, that rich people cheat more and it benefits them more.

Rich people go to private school or live in good school districts, though. Living in PG and sneaking into McKinley Tech isn't rich people behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At 5:15 PM all the cars around Duke Ellington have MD plates.

It is a thing.

While the issues with Ellington turning a very deliberate blind eye to residency fraud are well documented, people also will pay out-of-state tuition to go there because of its singular focus. Whether the school bothers to collect that tuition is another matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been living in the DC area for decades and know DC, MoCo, Howard and Fairfax public schools.

DCPS is an academic disaster compared to MCPS and FCPS (and some smaller, more homogeneous public school systems further out). Some charter schools are just OK, but none of them hold a candle to the best MCPS and FCPS school clusters.

Very few families are in such logistical straights as to want to place their kids in DCPS if they live in MD or VA.

If you've lived in DC for decades you know that residency fraud has been an issue. Lots of MD folks wanting to take advantage of free PK3 & PK4. Also convenience and being able to use grandma (who still lives in DC) for childcare. Close-in PG County schools are just okay.

PP you replied to. I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I'm saying it's not as dire as some would make it out to be.

I also have a theory on the marked decrease in residency fraud threads on DCUM: the average age of posters have gone up with time, so maybe in the past, there was a perfect storm of more posters with younger kids, who were noticing potential residential fraud at their DCPS schools, by families with preschool aged kids who then continued on to DCPS elementaries. But since DCPS gets worse the higher you go, middle school is a time of attrition to private or better suburban schools (and parents start to realize that MD or VA residency guarantees in-state tuition at UMD, UVA, etc), and kids become self-sufficient enough to not need adult supervision after school. So now that a plurality of DCUM posters are older, their kids have passed the age where they would notice such residential fraud.

All of this.

I have no special knowledge, but I think the city did a big data match a few years ago and that's why so many city employees were caught doing residency fraud. And that may have made people more cautious about doing it.

I also think that, aside from preschool, there are certainly DC residents sneaking into Maryland schools too. If we had to pay Maryland for that, and Maryland had to pay us for their residents, I'm not sure which state would come out ahead. This isn't necessarily the cost savings people think it is.

What you may fail to understand it that if Marylanders cheat DC schools, then that stops the poorer DC residents from any legal opportunity to go to a higher performing school. It’s not just money, it’s a moral failing on those families parts. And I can only imagine what it does to raise a child who knows they are cheating and is taught the rules don’t apply to them. It’s so gross.

No, I understand, but I think in actuality the number of MD residents at higher-performing schools and schools that don't take all applicants isn't that big. It's amazing how people will sneak into low performing schools but I suppose it's for logistical or family reasons. And again, the same logic applies to DC folks sneaking into MD schools.

We lived in-bound for Ludlow Taylor and my kids went there for most of their ES careers. There was always a lot of complaints about residency fraud amongst the white parent population. It never made sense to me to commit fraud just to get into Ludlow-Taylor, but, the 2 families I knew well who were committing fraud did it for childcare purposes and felt it was their right (they had grown up in DC). One of these families ended up going private for HS (lost touch with the other). Despite all the complaining from affluent white people, I think there was not a lot of outright fraud. There were lots of complicated custody arrangements where kids were moved between different homes (in different jurisdictions). Educational continuity is really important for these kids, and I suspect that most of them had permission to be at the school.

We moved to Silver Spring, MD for more space, and we got to know two PG county families there who were using grandparent's addresses due to easy childcare, not because they thought the school was better. I think there is a lot of residency fraud between DC and MD. I have not met any VA families in my years with DC and MD schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've been living in the DC area for decades and know DC, MoCo, Howard and Fairfax public schools.

DCPS is an academic disaster compared to MCPS and FCPS (and some smaller, more homogeneous public school systems further out). Some charter schools are just OK, but none of them hold a candle to the best MCPS and FCPS school clusters.

Very few families are in such logistical straights as to want to place their kids in DCPS if they live in MD or VA.

I agree with this 100. I worked in DC schools but would NEVER send my kids there if I lived in Maryland or Virginia. I mean, why risk residency fraud for a lower quality school?

[Anonymous]

I turned in a family who lived in Chevy Chase and sent there kids to a highly valued NW DC elementary school. Went to their house when the kids were in preK. The people at the house were, no one by that name lives there. Apparently their intention was to take my child to their house and not let us know where he was! Let the teacher know when I get a document from the school that said that was the kids address. So, the classroom teacher passed it along to the head of the school. They did not re-enroll the next year. The school pushed harder on documentation from then on.