Can we talk about Abundance, Ezra Klein’s book

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hope the message is a clear and good one.

The main issue is that we don't pound the message enough or know what the message is or have too many.

Sadly, Democrats have no message beyond “get trump”. People are fatigued with this.

Some of us really respond well to: Tax the rich. Universal health care. Diversity is our strength. and Science Matters. Perhaps some of you weren’t listening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That has always been the conservative critique: that technocratic governance, no matter how laudable the intent, almost always fails when it hits reality. Klein is skirting around that. He’s also avoiding the fact that he was one of biggest cheerleaders and proponents of the very policies he now recognizes as having failed to deliver the goods.

Finally, the politicians are part of the problem. Obamacare COULD have been single payer. There would have been a massive electoral price to pay, but there was a once in fifty year opportunity to achieve a longstanding goal and
Obama and Dems chose to try to thread the needle with incrementalism that they hoped would preserve their control of government. They got neither.

Yes - this. I like Ezra Kelvin’s podcast and the concept of his book. But I think he and others are wrong that Dems went “too far”. I think the problem is they didn’t go far enough. For example: healthcare. While Obamacare increased insurance coverage it hasn’t helped health outcomes or costs. But bc it was healthcare reform under Obama now Dems don’t want to touch that issue bc it’s “fixed”. Dems need to be strong to own up to past errors and fix them.

NIMBY-ism is another example. My town did some reason to allow more multi family housing: who is crying the loudest but the “liberals” who signed on to pledges promote diversity/equity/inclusion in all policies. They cite the fact that the new housing will result in “million dollar condos” but they ignore the fact that with no rezoning all we have gotten are $3-4 million single family houses (yes, I live in a pretty wealthy suburb). Our local elections this spring were pretty heated with a ton of finger pointing and misrepresentations and calls to “preserve the historical character of our town”. My town votes 90% Dem btw.

I don't disagree that we haven't solidly addressed some core issues as with Obamacare that you mentioned. But where we have pushed too far for the majority of the country is in social issues and over regulation. It feels like Dems are eating themselves alive with violent protests and violent rhetoric. Even AOC has seriously dialed her rhetoric back. GOP is sitting back and letting us further destroy ourselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hope the message is a clear and good one.

The main issue is that we don't pound the message enough or know what the message is or have too many.

Sadly, Democrats have no message beyond “get trump”. People are fatigued with this.

Some of us really respond well to: Tax the rich. Universal health care. Diversity is our strength. and Science Matters. Perhaps some of you weren’t listening.

Hard to hear when that was barely a whisper to the masses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who are you people who thing Dems went too far left? They didn’t go progressive enough imo.

I bought into the “moderate” Dems bc I thought that would be a winning argument for the “independents” and here we are. I’m not all in for a progressive dem to have a shot at we can’t do any worse.

And at their heart, Dems biggest issue is they absolutely effing SUCK at messaging and connecting and highlighting accomplishments. The dem machine is outdated and broken.

We are doomed with opinions like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That has always been the conservative critique: that technocratic governance, no matter how laudable the intent, almost always fails when it hits reality. Klein is skirting around that. He’s also avoiding the fact that he was one of biggest cheerleaders and proponents of the very policies he now recognizes as having failed to deliver the goods.

Finally, the politicians are part of the problem. Obamacare COULD have been single payer. There would have been a massive electoral price to pay, but there was a once in fifty year opportunity to achieve a longstanding goal and
Obama and Dems chose to try to thread the needle with incrementalism that they hoped would preserve their control of government. They got neither.

Yes - this. I like Ezra Kelvin’s podcast and the concept of his book. But I think he and others are wrong that Dems went “too far”. I think the problem is they didn’t go far enough. For example: healthcare. While Obamacare increased insurance coverage it hasn’t helped health outcomes or costs. But bc it was healthcare reform under Obama now Dems don’t want to touch that issue bc it’s “fixed”. Dems need to be strong to own up to past errors and fix them.

NIMBY-ism is another example. My town did some reason to allow more multi family housing: who is crying the loudest but the “liberals” who signed on to pledges promote diversity/equity/inclusion in all policies. They cite the fact that the new housing will result in “million dollar condos” but they ignore the fact that with no rezoning all we have gotten are $3-4 million single family houses (yes, I live in a pretty wealthy suburb). Our local elections this spring were pretty heated with a ton of finger pointing and misrepresentations and calls to “preserve the historical character of our town”. My town votes 90% Dem btw.

I don't disagree that we haven't solidly addressed some core issues as with Obamacare that you mentioned. But where we have pushed too far for the majority of the country is in social issues and over regulation. It feels like Dems are eating themselves alive with violent protests and violent rhetoric. Even AOC has seriously dialed her rhetoric back. GOP is sitting back and letting us further destroy ourselves.

I agree the social messaging and cancel culture went too far. Much like political correctness (when I first heard the term “woke” I said - oh you mean political correctness and was glared at). But IMO Social messaging does not equal being “left” or “progressive”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That has always been the conservative critique: that technocratic governance, no matter how laudable the intent, almost always fails when it hits reality. Klein is skirting around that. He’s also avoiding the fact that he was one of biggest cheerleaders and proponents of the very policies he now recognizes as having failed to deliver the goods.

Finally, the politicians are part of the problem. Obamacare COULD have been single payer. There would have been a massive electoral price to pay, but there was a once in fifty year opportunity to achieve a longstanding goal and
Obama and Dems chose to try to thread the needle with incrementalism that they hoped would preserve their control of government. They got neither.

Yes - this. I like Ezra Kelvin’s podcast and the concept of his book. But I think he and others are wrong that Dems went “too far”. I think the problem is they didn’t go far enough. For example: healthcare. While Obamacare increased insurance coverage it hasn’t helped health outcomes or costs. But bc it was healthcare reform under Obama now Dems don’t want to touch that issue bc it’s “fixed”. Dems need to be strong to own up to past errors and fix them.

NIMBY-ism is another example. My town did some reason to allow more multi family housing: who is crying the loudest but the “liberals” who signed on to pledges promote diversity/equity/inclusion in all policies. They cite the fact that the new housing will result in “million dollar condos” but they ignore the fact that with no rezoning all we have gotten are $3-4 million single family houses (yes, I live in a pretty wealthy suburb). Our local elections this spring were pretty heated with a ton of finger pointing and misrepresentations and calls to “preserve the historical character of our town”. My town votes 90% Dem btw.

Does the book explain why building housing requires rezoning? Why can single family home areas not exist?

I don’t think that we are out of space, at all. It’s an idealogical argument, and a bad one. So, people oppose it. This doesn’t hurt Democratic messaging. There can be abundance for all.

We could instead focus efforts elsewhere on winning arguments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That has always been the conservative critique: that technocratic governance, no matter how laudable the intent, almost always fails when it hits reality. Klein is skirting around that. He’s also avoiding the fact that he was one of biggest cheerleaders and proponents of the very policies he now recognizes as having failed to deliver the goods.

Finally, the politicians are part of the problem. Obamacare COULD have been single payer. There would have been a massive electoral price to pay, but there was a once in fifty year opportunity to achieve a longstanding goal and
Obama and Dems chose to try to thread the needle with incrementalism that they hoped would preserve their control of government. They got neither.

Yes - this. I like Ezra Kelvin’s podcast and the concept of his book. But I think he and others are wrong that Dems went “too far”. I think the problem is they didn’t go far enough. For example: healthcare. While Obamacare increased insurance coverage it hasn’t helped health outcomes or costs. But bc it was healthcare reform under Obama now Dems don’t want to touch that issue bc it’s “fixed”. Dems need to be strong to own up to past errors and fix them.

NIMBY-ism is another example. My town did some reason to allow more multi family housing: who is crying the loudest but the “liberals” who signed on to pledges promote diversity/equity/inclusion in all policies. They cite the fact that the new housing will result in “million dollar condos” but they ignore the fact that with no rezoning all we have gotten are $3-4 million single family houses (yes, I live in a pretty wealthy suburb). Our local elections this spring were pretty heated with a ton of finger pointing and misrepresentations and calls to “preserve the historical character of our town”. My town votes 90% Dem btw.

Does the book explain why building housing requires rezoning? Why can single family home areas not exist?

I don’t think that we are out of space, at all. It’s an idealogical argument, and a bad one. So, people oppose it. This doesn’t hurt Democratic messaging. There can be abundance for all.

We could instead focus efforts elsewhere on winning arguments.

I also think the timing of the book is terrible. People don’t care about “housing abundance” when they are worried about US citizens being deported to El Salvador.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/books/2025/mar/27/abundance-by-ezra-klein-and-derek-thompson-review-make-america-build-again

That gives a brief overview. Klein and his co author, Derek Thompson, have been making the rounds on liberal podcasts recently.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/pod-save-america/id1192761536?i=1000701297248

If I had to try to boil down in a sentence, it’s about how liberals aren’t governing well, and keep getting in the way of progress. We needed environmental and housing regulation, but they’re now preventing Dems from solving major problems.

I’ve been saying for the last 2 years that Dems aren’t listening to their voters. This hits the nail on the head.

If you don’t like the links I’ve posted, any search engine can find you at least 15 more options.

Until democrats go after employers replacing US citizens by mandating e-verify , we will know they have not changed

You are ridiculous. The felon quietly pushed eVerify under the rig because his companies were NOT using it. Why can’t you ever read a newspaper? Mind you this is from a report by >>> THE WASHINGTON TIMES. SMDH!

“Just five of the 565 companies in President Trump’s business empire are signed up to use E-Verify, the government’s best tool to weed illegal immigrants out of the workforce, according to a Washington Times analysis that suggests the president could personally be doing more on that front.”


https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/dec/6/donald-trump-companies-ignoring-e-verify-hiring-il/

(You’re all just sycophants!)

[Anonymous]

To me a lot of it boils down to Dems being too good at following the rules, too worried about optics, too worried about oversight. Klein has been out there talking about the failure of the BEAD program for broadband as an example of this. We had to get the maps just right to avoid any overlap and any waste, because we were afraid republicans would get mad. Miscalculation. Better to build big things Nd take a little political risk than do nothing. We aren’t getting shit done and that is a huge problem. Trump is getting things done, and going WAY WAY WAY past most people’s comfort level and decimating constituional norms. It’s a joke to think about how careful Dems are in comparison.

[Anonymous]

I just heard one of the many interviews today and the “everything bagel” analogy really hit home. By trying to do everything at once, they get nothing done . Basically the Biden admin sabatoged the IIJA and IRA by saddling every project with a whole bunch of social justice demands. Instead of just saying “go ahead and build infrastructure”, the said you also have to solve environmental justice and ensure more women are on construction sites, and your subcontractors must all be minority owned business = and guess what - nothing got done and now all the projects are getting cancelled so we have no infrastructure investment, and none of the social engineering goals as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That has always been the conservative critique: that technocratic governance, no matter how laudable the intent, almost always fails when it hits reality. Klein is skirting around that. He’s also avoiding the fact that he was one of biggest cheerleaders and proponents of the very policies he now recognizes as having failed to deliver the goods.

Finally, the politicians are part of the problem. Obamacare COULD have been single payer. There would have been a massive electoral price to pay, but there was a once in fifty year opportunity to achieve a longstanding goal and
Obama and Dems chose to try to thread the needle with incrementalism that they hoped would preserve their control of government. They got neither.

Yes - this. I like Ezra Kelvin’s podcast and the concept of his book. But I think he and others are wrong that Dems went “too far”. I think the problem is they didn’t go far enough. For example: healthcare. While Obamacare increased insurance coverage it hasn’t helped health outcomes or costs. But bc it was healthcare reform under Obama now Dems don’t want to touch that issue bc it’s “fixed”. Dems need to be strong to own up to past errors and fix them.

NIMBY-ism is another example. My town did some reason to allow more multi family housing: who is crying the loudest but the “liberals” who signed on to pledges promote diversity/equity/inclusion in all policies. They cite the fact that the new housing will result in “million dollar condos” but they ignore the fact that with no rezoning all we have gotten are $3-4 million single family houses (yes, I live in a pretty wealthy suburb). Our local elections this spring were pretty heated with a ton of finger pointing and misrepresentations and calls to “preserve the historical character of our town”. My town votes 90% Dem btw.

Does the book explain why building housing requires rezoning? Why can single family home areas not exist?

I don’t think that we are out of space, at all. It’s an idealogical argument, and a bad one. So, people oppose it. This doesn’t hurt Democratic messaging. There can be abundance for all.

We could instead focus efforts elsewhere on winning arguments.

I also think the timing of the book is terrible. People don’t care about “housing abundance” when they are worried about US citizens being deported to El Salvador.

That’s not actually true. The two are related. Housing scarcity is one reason that people are scapegoating immigrants. We need to care about all of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just heard one of the many interviews today and the “everything bagel” analogy really hit home. By trying to do everything at once, they get nothing done . Basically the Biden admin sabatoged the IIJA and IRA by saddling every project with a whole bunch of social justice demands. Instead of just saying “go ahead and build infrastructure”, the said you also have to solve environmental justice and ensure more women are on construction sites, and your subcontractors must all be minority owned business = and guess what - nothing got done and now all the projects are getting cancelled so we have no infrastructure investment, and none of the social engineering goals as well.

That’s not why those programs didn’t get off the ground. I mean some of it is problematic but honestly a lot of the tediousness of the grant award process had to do with the mapping. Republicans were beating the drum about not “overbuilding” and Dems overcomplied. Better to overbuild and apologize later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hope the message is a clear and good one.

The main issue is that we don't pound the message enough or know what the message is or have too many.

Sadly, Democrats have no message beyond “get trump”. People are fatigued with this.

Some of us really respond well to: Tax the rich. Universal health care. Diversity is our strength. and Science Matters. Perhaps some of you weren’t listening.

Dude, please don’t say these things anymore. It didn’t work. It’s not going to work. It all sounds like spending money on more of the same shit that hasn’t worked.

Say things like “level the playing field” “save the American dream” and “make government work for you”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That has always been the conservative critique: that technocratic governance, no matter how laudable the intent, almost always fails when it hits reality. Klein is skirting around that. He’s also avoiding the fact that he was one of biggest cheerleaders and proponents of the very policies he now recognizes as having failed to deliver the goods.

Finally, the politicians are part of the problem. Obamacare COULD have been single payer. There would have been a massive electoral price to pay, but there was a once in fifty year opportunity to achieve a longstanding goal and
Obama and Dems chose to try to thread the needle with incrementalism that they hoped would preserve their control of government. They got neither.

Yes - this. I like Ezra Kelvin’s podcast and the concept of his book. But I think he and others are wrong that Dems went “too far”. I think the problem is they didn’t go far enough. For example: healthcare. While Obamacare increased insurance coverage it hasn’t helped health outcomes or costs. But bc it was healthcare reform under Obama now Dems don’t want to touch that issue bc it’s “fixed”. Dems need to be strong to own up to past errors and fix them.

NIMBY-ism is another example. My town did some reason to allow more multi family housing: who is crying the loudest but the “liberals” who signed on to pledges promote diversity/equity/inclusion in all policies. They cite the fact that the new housing will result in “million dollar condos” but they ignore the fact that with no rezoning all we have gotten are $3-4 million single family houses (yes, I live in a pretty wealthy suburb). Our local elections this spring were pretty heated with a ton of finger pointing and misrepresentations and calls to “preserve the historical character of our town”. My town votes 90% Dem btw.

Does the book explain why building housing requires rezoning? Why can single family home areas not exist?

I don’t think that we are out of space, at all. It’s an idealogical argument, and a bad one. So, people oppose it. This doesn’t hurt Democratic messaging. There can be abundance for all.

We could instead focus efforts elsewhere on winning arguments.

I also think the timing of the book is terrible. People don’t care about “housing abundance” when they are worried about US citizens being deported to El Salvador.

If Dems were better at governing, Trump wouldn’t be in the White House right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That has always been the conservative critique: that technocratic governance, no matter how laudable the intent, almost always fails when it hits reality. Klein is skirting around that. He’s also avoiding the fact that he was one of biggest cheerleaders and proponents of the very policies he now recognizes as having failed to deliver the goods.

Finally, the politicians are part of the problem. Obamacare COULD have been single payer. There would have been a massive electoral price to pay, but there was a once in fifty year opportunity to achieve a longstanding goal and
Obama and Dems chose to try to thread the needle with incrementalism that they hoped would preserve their control of government. They got neither.

Yes - this. I like Ezra Kelvin’s podcast and the concept of his book. But I think he and others are wrong that Dems went “too far”. I think the problem is they didn’t go far enough. For example: healthcare. While Obamacare increased insurance coverage it hasn’t helped health outcomes or costs. But bc it was healthcare reform under Obama now Dems don’t want to touch that issue bc it’s “fixed”. Dems need to be strong to own up to past errors and fix them.

NIMBY-ism is another example. My town did some reason to allow more multi family housing: who is crying the loudest but the “liberals” who signed on to pledges promote diversity/equity/inclusion in all policies. They cite the fact that the new housing will result in “million dollar condos” but they ignore the fact that with no rezoning all we have gotten are $3-4 million single family houses (yes, I live in a pretty wealthy suburb). Our local elections this spring were pretty heated with a ton of finger pointing and misrepresentations and calls to “preserve the historical character of our town”. My town votes 90% Dem btw.

Does the book explain why building housing requires rezoning? Why can single family home areas not exist?

I don’t think that we are out of space, at all. It’s an idealogical argument, and a bad one. So, people oppose it. This doesn’t hurt Democratic messaging. There can be abundance for all.

We could instead focus efforts elsewhere on winning arguments.

I also think the timing of the book is terrible. People don’t care about “housing abundance” when they are worried about US citizens being deported to El Salvador.

That’s not actually true. The two are related. Housing scarcity is one reason that people are scapegoating immigrants. We need to care about all of this.

This is something that upper middle class people don’t see. You’re not the ones dealing with housing scarcity. I wasn’t even going to try to discuss it here. It’s a conversation better had with other poors. Immigrants actually do increase demand for housing, but I can’t say that here without being called a racist.

Don’t call me a Trump voter for saying it. I wouldn’t vote for that clown under any circumstances. Dems need to pay attention to working class Americans again. Hillary Clinton changed the tone, and it’s been a downward spiral ever since.