Why do non-magnet HS impede academic achievement?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have one kid in a magnet and one kid in our home school. Kid in home school was channeled into higher level classes than I thought kid could handle. I asked to have kid dropped down to on-level class in one subject and was told kid should stay in advanced class because starting the following year, the school wasn’t even going to offer the on-level version. We’re not having the experience you’re describing, and we’re a race that I’m guessing you think schools are trying to impede.

Yeah, I think our HS is the opposite, too.

My kid says lots of students get talked into taking IB classes, and they’re not really prepared for the workload, or they don’t have the foundational skills to succeed without a huge struggle.

I’m not clear on what prerequisites OP thinks their kid should be able to skip, though? And what magnet programs allow students to skip foundational prerequisite classes entirely? I thought most simply compacted and accelerated the material, rather than skipping entire courses in the standard sequence.

This, kids are pushed into classes they cannot handle and on the flip our school has few AP's so there are few smart kids as they lottery into other schools. I didn't realize it or we would have chosen another school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, the problem are not the high schools. The problem are middle schools. They do, in fact, impede academic achievement among the top 10-20%, especially in science, English and world languages. Math is not that bad and is the easiest the supplement.

No, the problem is the elementary school where kids aren't getting what they need and a strong foundation. MS tries to make up for it but its too little too late.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, the problem are not the high schools. The problem are middle schools. They do, in fact, impede academic achievement among the top 10-20%, especially in science, English and world languages. Math is not that bad and is the easiest the supplement.

No, the problem is the elementary school where kids aren't getting what they need and a strong foundation. MS tries to make up for it but its too little too late.

I disagree. Elementary schools are not great, but middle are supposed to be much closer to high schools. A lot of students are ready to take material that is vastly more challenging than what middle schools are offering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do non magnet HS admin steer students away from the highest academic options *that are available at the school* that would give them an opportunity to excel at a level comparable to magnet school?

Why do they routee everyone through the same 0-knowledge prereqs instead of offering placement evaluations so kids have time for more electives or advanced classes?

I'm sure that the county admin do this because they want to solve equity by cutting off the high achievemers of the wrong colors.
But what about school admin?

Don't they have any pride in seeing their students succeed?

Not my experience at all. I have a kid at magnet HS and one not. While there are not the same opportunities at the non-magnet HS, there are certainly enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do non magnet HS admin steer students away from the highest academic options *that are available at the school* that would give them an opportunity to excel at a level comparable to magnet school?

Why do they routee everyone through the same 0-knowledge prereqs instead of offering placement evaluations so kids have time for more electives or advanced classes?

I'm sure that the county admin do this because they want to solve equity by cutting off the high achievemers of the wrong colors.
But what about school admin?

Don't they have any pride in seeing their students succeed?

Not my experience at all. I have a kid at magnet HS and one not. While there are not the same opportunities at the non-magnet HS, there are certainly enough.

OK.

Can you make 3 examples?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe because the magnets and other application based programs exist for this purpose?

Covering, together, maybe a quarter of the population that would benefit from a more enriched/rigorous/advanced/accelerated approach? Then leaving the remaining three quarters to the decisions of local schools that clearly do not provide some reasonably equivalent programming to meet individuals where they are with any consistency across schools/administrations? Please

(DP)

Have you explored all the options? Some are only really limited by ability to pass entry tests. If those program can only meet the needs of 25% of students it is because the other students can’t pass the test, which is exactly who shouldn’t be accelerated.

If you aren’t interested in those programs because you want your local HS to customize to you instead of leveraging a centrally administered opportunity, that seems like a you issue.

Which school has entry exams for which courses?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why would a HS offer a placement test when only one eve is offered, honors for all, in 9th and 10th grade? After that, students can sign up for AB and IB if they want. There is zero gatekeeping.

So, that's 2 years of gatekeeping, and the AP courses still have prereqs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do non magnet HS admin steer students away from the highest academic options *that are available at the school* that would give them an opportunity to excel at a level comparable to magnet school?

Why do they routee everyone through the same 0-knowledge prereqs instead of offering placement evaluations so kids have time for more electives or advanced classes?

I'm sure that the county admin do this because they want to solve equity by cutting off the high achievemers of the wrong colors.
But what about school admin?

Don't they have any pride in seeing their students succeed?

What are 0-knowledge prereqs?

Honors Science.
Programming 1 / "AP" CS Principles.


It's interesting that schools offer 4 years of AP Social Studies, and 2 years of AP English, but require a prereq for each of the 3 main sciences and CS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have one kid in a magnet and one kid in our home school. Kid in home school was channeled into higher level classes than I thought kid could handle. I asked to have kid dropped down to on-level class in one subject and was told kid should stay in advanced class because starting the following year, the school wasn’t even going to offer the on-level version. We’re not having the experience you’re describing, and we’re a race that I’m guessing you think schools are trying to impede.

Yeah, I think our HS is the opposite, too.

My kid says lots of students get talked into taking IB classes, and they’re not really prepared for the workload, or they don’t have the foundational skills to succeed without a huge struggle.

I’m not clear on what prerequisites OP thinks their kid should be able to skip, though? And what magnet programs allow students to skip foundational prerequisite classes entirely? I thought most simply compacted and accelerated the material, rather than skipping entire courses in the standard sequence.

Accelerated is effectively the same as skipping, but it's thinned out across a semester. The end result is the same -- fewer semester to reach the endgame of a sequence.
And SMCS also allows skipping a semester of accelerated CS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe because the magnets and other application based programs exist for this purpose?

Covering, together, maybe a quarter of the population that would benefit from a more enriched/rigorous/advanced/accelerated approach? Then leaving the remaining three quarters to the decisions of local schools that clearly do not provide some reasonably equivalent programming to meet individuals where they are with any consistency across schools/administrations? Please

(DP)

Have you explored all the options? Some are only really limited by ability to pass entry tests. If those program can only meet the needs of 25% of students it is because the other students can’t pass the test, which is exactly who shouldn’t be accelerated.

If you aren’t interested in those programs because you want your local HS to customize to you instead of leveraging a centrally administered opportunity, that seems like a you issue.

Which school has entry exams for which courses?

Early college for biochemistry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe because the magnets and other application based programs exist for this purpose?

Covering, together, maybe a quarter of the population that would benefit from a more enriched/rigorous/advanced/accelerated approach? Then leaving the remaining three quarters to the decisions of local schools that clearly do not provide some reasonably equivalent programming to meet individuals where they are with any consistency across schools/administrations? Please

(DP)

Have you explored all the options? Some are only really limited by ability to pass entry tests. If those program can only meet the needs of 25% of students it is because the other students can’t pass the test, which is exactly who shouldn’t be accelerated.

If you aren’t interested in those programs because you want your local HS to customize to you instead of leveraging a centrally administered opportunity, that seems like a you issue.

Which school has entry exams for which courses?

Early college for biochemistry.

Early college is through MC, not MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would a HS offer a placement test when only one eve is offered, honors for all, in 9th and 10th grade? After that, students can sign up for AB and IB if they want. There is zero gatekeeping.

So, that's 2 years of gatekeeping, and the AP courses still have prereqs.

No gatekeeping at all in our MCPS. Anyone can take the AP/IB courses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe because the magnets and other application based programs exist for this purpose?

Covering, together, maybe a quarter of the population that would benefit from a more enriched/rigorous/advanced/accelerated approach? Then leaving the remaining three quarters to the decisions of local schools that clearly do not provide some reasonably equivalent programming to meet individuals where they are with any consistency across schools/administrations? Please

(DP)

Have you explored all the options? Some are only really limited by ability to pass entry tests. If those program can only meet the needs of 25% of students it is because the other students can’t pass the test, which is exactly who shouldn’t be accelerated.

If you aren’t interested in those programs because you want your local HS to customize to you instead of leveraging a centrally administered opportunity, that seems like a you issue.

Which school has entry exams for which courses?

Early college for biochemistry.

Early college is through MC, not MCPS.

I’m not sure what you mean. It is an MCPS program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would a HS offer a placement test when only one eve is offered, honors for all, in 9th and 10th grade? After that, students can sign up for AB and IB if they want. There is zero gatekeeping.

Try getting a French immersion student who has been exposed to the language for 9 years (and three periods during the last three of those) placed in something higher than level 4 as a freshman (where students having been in standard, one-period French 1, 2 & 3 in middle school also are placed).

I'm sure there are other examples of rigidity, local or across the board, where schools just don't make an effort to meet students where they are.

Well, no MCPS magnet program is going to let a student do that, either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do non magnet HS admin steer students away from the highest academic options *that are available at the school* that would give them an opportunity to excel at a level comparable to magnet school?

Why do they routee everyone through the same 0-knowledge prereqs instead of offering placement evaluations so kids have time for more electives or advanced classes?

I'm sure that the county admin do this because they want to solve equity by cutting off the high achievemers of the wrong colors.
But what about school admin?

Don't they have any pride in seeing their students succeed?

What are 0-knowledge prereqs?

Honors Science.
Programming 1 / "AP" CS Principles.


It's interesting that schools offer 4 years of AP Social Studies, and 2 years of AP English, but require a prereq for each of the 3 main sciences and CS.

Honors Sciences, AP CS Principles have their role, I wouldn’t call them 0-knowledge. If you’re bothered by AP CS Principles as a prerequisite you can always self study and take the exam.

You’re misinformed about how easy it is though, only 10% get a 5 and a third of the student fail the exam.

Some honors science classes are prerequisites for APs, e.g. Honors Chemistry for AP Chemistry and AP Biology. That’s not 0-knowledge either, it’s actually a good preparation for the more advanced classes.

A small number of students, 10-15%, may be fine without them as prerequisites, but the vast majority would not.