Lucy Calkins/Fountas & Pinnell being sued for selling ineffective reading programs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's the educators who need to get sued. They should have known better than to buy a shit program with no phonics.

And you should know that it isn’t educators who choose and do purchase curriculum. My colleagues and I basically went behind our admin’s back to teach phonics.

Exactly this! No one program or curriculum is going to be perfect. Anyone who has taught in the classroom learns that very quickly. I used both of these systems as an mcps teacher but I also provided phonics instruction because it was needed.

I had a happy hour with a bunch of moms the last day of my daughter's 1st grade year and out of the 12 moms, 10 had been told that they needed to pay for private reading tutoring or consider holding their student back because they weren't meeting reading benchmarks. The moms were all very upset and comparing and sharing tutor info. All felt completely blindsided because they expected our highly regarded APS elementary to teach their kids to read and all read with their kids regularly, which is what they'd been told to do by the establishment to teach a love of reading and create a strong reader.

Our school used Lucy Calkin's reading workshop and it was utterly failing kids. I was astounded. I'd taught my daughter to read the summer before K using the phonics based program Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons. I'm so glad I did. The other kid who could read on grade level was an early reader and had learned before kindergarten.

I still know these kids and moms. One was diagnosed ADHD and another has dyslexia. The other kids all caught up quickly with phonics tutoring. They're smart kids who just hadn't been taught what they needed to learn to read.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents in Massachusetts are actually suing them. The crux of the argument is that 1-the reading programs they sold to school districts across the country don't work because there is no phonics component and 2-they KNEW the reading programs didn't work.

Doesn't Fairfax still use these programs? I was forced to when I was a teacher, and we would get into trouble if anyone found out we were teaching phonics (which many of us did in secret).

I wish Fairfax parents would sue them.

Clearly you’re not in FCPS. If you were, you’d know that no one has used Caulkins in years and that EVERYONE in the county is using Benchmark which has explicit phonics instruction.

I'm in Fairfax, but haven't taught in 10 years, and my kids are all out of elementary. But I know those programs were used at least as recently as two years ago, and also that there is no such thing as "everyone" in fcps. Principals are never forced to do anything in terms of instruction.

2 years ago was when they launched that Equitable Access to Literacy program that was supposed to bolt phonics onto Units of Study while the county waited for the state to give them the new list of allowed ELA programs and then they picked one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents in Massachusetts are actually suing them. The crux of the argument is that 1-the reading programs they sold to school districts across the country don't work because there is no phonics component and 2-they KNEW the reading programs didn't work.

Doesn't Fairfax still use these programs? I was forced to when I was a teacher, and we would get into trouble if anyone found out we were teaching phonics (which many of us did in secret).

I wish Fairfax parents would sue them.

Clearly you’re not in FCPS. If you were, you’d know that no one has used Caulkins in years and that EVERYONE in the county is using Benchmark which has explicit phonics instruction.

I'm in Fairfax, but haven't taught in 10 years, and my kids are all out of elementary. But I know those programs were used at least as recently as two years ago, and also that there is no such thing as "everyone" in fcps. Principals are never forced to do anything in terms of instruction.

No really, principals are forced to use Benchmark. It’s a state law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents in Massachusetts are actually suing them. The crux of the argument is that 1-the reading programs they sold to school districts across the country don't work because there is no phonics component and 2-they KNEW the reading programs didn't work.

Doesn't Fairfax still use these programs? I was forced to when I was a teacher, and we would get into trouble if anyone found out we were teaching phonics (which many of us did in secret).

I wish Fairfax parents would sue them.

Clearly you’re not in FCPS. If you were, you’d know that no one has used Caulkins in years and that EVERYONE in the county is using Benchmark which has explicit phonics instruction.

I'm in Fairfax, but haven't taught in 10 years, and my kids are all out of elementary. But I know those programs were used at least as recently as two years ago, and also that there is no such thing as "everyone" in fcps. Principals are never forced to do anything in terms of instruction.

No really, principals are forced to use Benchmark. It’s a state law.

To clarify, in Virginia, all public schools and their teachers are required to use a State-approved literacy curriculum which complies with the Science of Reading law. FCPS selected Benchmark for this. APS selected CKLA. Not sure what LCPS or PWPS or FCCPS picked.

I do not understand the rules in Maryland or DC. MCPS happens also to be moving to CKLA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents in Massachusetts are actually suing them. The crux of the argument is that 1-the reading programs they sold to school districts across the country don't work because there is no phonics component and 2-they KNEW the reading programs didn't work.

Doesn't Fairfax still use these programs? I was forced to when I was a teacher, and we would get into trouble if anyone found out we were teaching phonics (which many of us did in secret).

I wish Fairfax parents would sue them.

Clearly you’re not in FCPS. If you were, you’d know that no one has used Caulkins in years and that EVERYONE in the county is using Benchmark which has explicit phonics instruction.

Benchmark is absolutely terrible. MCPS FINALLY got rid of it this year and has Amplify CKLA, which has been a game changer. My school piloted the "new and improved" Benchmark with new photics instruction, and it was much worse than what we have now. Farifax is not doing teachers and kids a service by using Benchmark.

[Anonymous]

Good

[Anonymous]

By the way, I am told the CKLA program can be downloaded at no cost from the Core Knowledge Foundation. That might be an option for FCPS parents who want to supplement.

NB: "Common Core" is not the same thing as " ore Knowledge"; they just have similar sounding names.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents in Massachusetts are actually suing them. The crux of the argument is that 1-the reading programs they sold to school districts across the country don't work because there is no phonics component and 2-they KNEW the reading programs didn't work.

Doesn't Fairfax still use these programs? I was forced to when I was a teacher, and we would get into trouble if anyone found out we were teaching phonics (which many of us did in secret).

I wish Fairfax parents would sue them.

Clearly you’re not in FCPS. If you were, you’d know that no one has used Caulkins in years and that EVERYONE in the county is using Benchmark which has explicit phonics instruction.

Benchmark is absolutely terrible. MCPS FINALLY got rid of it this year and has Amplify CKLA, which has been a game changer. My school piloted the "new and improved" Benchmark with new photics instruction, and it was much worse than what we have now. Farifax is not doing teachers and kids a service by using Benchmark.

FCPS went through a yearlong process to select a program from a list approved by the state. Their choices were limited. One factor was the publisher’s ability to provide materials for the 9th largest school system in the country. My vote would have been for Bookworm, but there’s no way that publisher could have met the needs of such a large district.

So far Benchmark has been fine. It may not be what you used in MCPS since Fairfax asks for modifications. It’s definitely increased the rigor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents in Massachusetts are actually suing them. The crux of the argument is that 1-the reading programs they sold to school districts across the country don't work because there is no phonics component and 2-they KNEW the reading programs didn't work.

Doesn't Fairfax still use these programs? I was forced to when I was a teacher, and we would get into trouble if anyone found out we were teaching phonics (which many of us did in secret).

I wish Fairfax parents would sue them.

Clearly you’re not in FCPS. If you were, you’d know that no one has used Caulkins in years and that EVERYONE in the county is using Benchmark which has explicit phonics instruction.

Benchmark is absolutely terrible. MCPS FINALLY got rid of it this year and has Amplify CKLA, which has been a game changer. My school piloted the "new and improved" Benchmark with new photics instruction, and it was much worse than what we have now. Farifax is not doing teachers and kids a service by using Benchmark.

FCPS went through a yearlong process to select a program from a list approved by the state. Their choices were limited. One factor was the publisher’s ability to provide materials for the 9th largest school system in the country. My vote would have been for Bookworm, but there’s no way that publisher could have met the needs of such a large district.

So far Benchmark has been fine. It may not be what you used in MCPS since Fairfax asks for modifications. It’s definitely increased the rigor.

DP and while I wish FCPS was using CKLA, everything I've heard (we're out of FCPS for private now) is that Benchmark is hands down better than what we had. This is from families who supplement with homeschool phonics and knowledge based literature curricula, so they have pretty high standards.

What you think is terrible depends on what your expectations were. Ours in FCPS were through the floor low.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's the educators who need to get sued. They should have known better than to buy a shit program with no phonics.

And you should know that it isn’t educators who choose and do purchase curriculum. My colleagues and I basically went behind our admin’s back to teach phonics.

I think maybe PP confused admin with educators. A lot of people don't understand how little power teachers have. Also, the gaslighting was intense - after a decade of "balanced" literacy brainwashing, even I had started to think it was good, and I felt guilty when I taught phonics in secret.

Agreed. I'm in a different state. I sit on a district curriculum committee that is watching our district pilot curriculums.

When my oldest was in K, they were full guided reading and also a dysfunctional handwriting/printing system called D'Nealian. My mom (former teacher) gave us phonics-based texts she used to teach me. Both of my kids read well but their handwriting was spoiled because we did not drill them on that.

Now my district has abandoned these things that I complained about years ago, my trust in the Administration's independent judgment is lessened.

[Anonymous]

We switched schools, going from one that was good at phonics instruction but not so much on handwriting and loved EdTech (why does my first grader need to be on an app during music class?!), to a CKLA school and the difference has blown me away. They write so much, and they are expected to write neatly and spell correctly. DC loves the reading they do, although its harder for me to get a sense of instruction there since DC reads so far above grade level already. I've been really pleased with the CKLA 2nd grade curriculum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:By the way, I am told the CKLA program can be downloaded at no cost from the Core Knowledge Foundation. That might be an option for FCPS parents who want to supplement.

NB: "Common Core" is not the same thing as " ore Knowledge"; they just have similar sounding names.

Yes - this is what we did when MCPS used Benchmark. They also have a good series that you can get from Amazon called "What your ___ grader needs to know" that we used every year. There is a useful pinned thread at the top of the MCPS forum with links to useful resources.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents in Massachusetts are actually suing them. The crux of the argument is that 1-the reading programs they sold to school districts across the country don't work because there is no phonics component and 2-they KNEW the reading programs didn't work.

Doesn't Fairfax still use these programs? I was forced to when I was a teacher, and we would get into trouble if anyone found out we were teaching phonics (which many of us did in secret).

I wish Fairfax parents would sue them.

Clearly you’re not in FCPS. If you were, you’d know that no one has used Caulkins in years and that EVERYONE in the county is using Benchmark which has explicit phonics instruction.

Benchmark is absolutely terrible. MCPS FINALLY got rid of it this year and has Amplify CKLA, which has been a game changer. My school piloted the "new and improved" Benchmark with new photics instruction, and it was much worse than what we have now. Farifax is not doing teachers and kids a service by using Benchmark.

FCPS went through a yearlong process to select a program from a list approved by the state. Their choices were limited. One factor was the publisher’s ability to provide materials for the 9th largest school system in the country. My vote would have been for Bookworm, but there’s no way that publisher could have met the needs of such a large district.

So far Benchmark has been fine. It may not be what you used in MCPS since Fairfax asks for modifications. It’s definitely increased the rigor.

MCPS also modified the curriclum, and it was still really bad. Amplify CKLA has been much better. MCPS is a large school district (160k students) -- Amplify has been able to work with us and make modifications where needed. Much more aligned to the science of reading than Benchmark, not only in the early years with a strong phonics program but also with much stronger knowledge-building throughout the K-8 sequence. MCPS has not adopted it for MS, but we are hopeful they will switch when the contract for the current MS vendor is up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We switched schools, going from one that was good at phonics instruction but not so much on handwriting and loved EdTech (why does my first grader need to be on an app during music class?!), to a CKLA school and the difference has blown me away. They write so much, and they are expected to write neatly and spell correctly. DC loves the reading they do, although its harder for me to get a sense of instruction there since DC reads so far above grade level already. I've been really pleased with the CKLA 2nd grade curriculum.

I could have written this post myself! Moved our youngest to a core knowledge, tech-free school after the onslaught of tech wrecked havoc on my older kid. The ones who got out of grammar prior to 1:1 were well educated but one of my middles has really been hosed. I feel so guilty!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's the educators who need to get sued. They should have known better than to buy a shit program with no phonics.

And you should know that it isn’t educators who choose and do purchase curriculum. My colleagues and I basically went behind our admin’s back to teach phonics.

Exactly this! No one program or curriculum is going to be perfect. Anyone who has taught in the classroom learns that very quickly. I used both of these systems as an mcps teacher but I also provided phonics instruction because it was needed.

I had a happy hour with a bunch of moms the last day of my daughter's 1st grade year and out of the 12 moms, 10 had been told that they needed to pay for private reading tutoring or consider holding their student back because they weren't meeting reading benchmarks. The moms were all very upset and comparing and sharing tutor info. All felt completely blindsided because they expected our highly regarded APS elementary to teach their kids to read and all read with their kids regularly, which is what they'd been told to do by the establishment to teach a love of reading and create a strong reader.

Our school used Lucy Calkin's reading workshop and it was utterly failing kids. I was astounded. I'd taught my daughter to read the summer before K using the phonics based program Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons. I'm so glad I did. The other kid who could read on grade level was an early reader and had learned before kindergarten.

I still know these kids and moms. One was diagnosed ADHD and another has dyslexia. The other kids all caught up quickly with phonics tutoring. They're smart kids who just hadn't been taught what they needed to learn to read.

I don’t mean this as offensively as it is going to come off, but as resourced as people are in Arlington why didn’t the moms just work with them? How were the kids not reading by first grade on their own? And why would a resourced parent not sit and teach their kids? My kids both learned before K just by reading with me.