Causes for a large gap between speech decoding and encoding?

[Anonymous]

I should be more complete — his phonological awareness is fine in the receptive context but he still makes mistakes in production.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a typical presentation when a child is being treated for dyslexia or dyslexia-type concerns. Parents love OG-based programs, but they really don't address spelling sufficiently and only do so late in the remediation process. For this reason, you'll see if fairly often that parents here have continued concerns with encoding (spelling). Consider a speech to print approach rather than print to speech, such as OG.

With OP's clarification, this doesn't sound like dyslexia.

OG, and other similar programs, do a great job of teaching kids to combine sounds to read words, and to break down words into sounds which is an important part of spelling. It helps kids who reverse sounds in words (e.g. cab for back) or omit sounds (bakit for blanket) or change sounds (bad for bed), and generally gets kids to the point where spell check is super helpful. But the reality is that English has a lot of ways to spell the same sound, and also words that just don't follow the rules at all, and OG doesn't do a good job of teaching you which variant spelling for that sound makes sense, or when to make an exception. So, you might learn the rule that you don't end a word in C, which will help you remember to spell back instead of bac. But it won't help you spell Iraq, or public. Or you might learn that ee and ea both make the long e sound, but it won't help you remember that it's team but not teem.

Because of this, many people with dyslexia will continue to need lots of experience reading, and explicit instruction in spelling after their gap in reading has narrowed.

Again though, this doesn't sound like it's OP's kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you mean expressive vs receptive language?
My son has an expressive language disorder. It’s been a long road but he’s doing really well in high school after intensive speech therapy through 6th-ish grade.

As for the cause…. We never really got a good answer for that. Expressive language delays can be part of a larger autism diagnosis but not necessarily

Yes I think that’s it. He’s higher functioning in his ability to receive language through print or verbally (mid 90s percentile) but lower functioning in his ability to write or verbally express (mid 30s percentile). I’m sorry to everybody for the encoding and decoding language — that seemed to be the language his therapist was using in our IEP meeting.

We got him checked out for autism when he was younger and it came back negative. I think I’m generally comfortable with the conclusion because he doesn’t really have other signs besides the expressive language issues.

He had a bad tongue tie as a baby that was eventually clipped when he was three because it was inhibiting his language production. I think the current medical guidelines are doctors don’t clip tongue ties even if they look bad at birth until they create language issues which is frustrating to say the least because you’re essentially waiting for issues to develop. Maybe that’s still the cause for the delay in language production and writing.

Is this scenario I described a possible description for dyslexia that I should look into?

Not dyslexia, maybe dysgraphia although 30th %ile is still pretty high.

How is his handwriting? Sometimes kids have trouble with written language, because they are putting in so much effort into moving their fingers or finding the letter on the keyboard that their spelling and organization and other things suffer.

Can you give us an example of the kind of errors he's making? Or all of the sub scores?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you mean expressive vs receptive language?
My son has an expressive language disorder. It’s been a long road but he’s doing really well in high school after intensive speech therapy through 6th-ish grade.

As for the cause…. We never really got a good answer for that. Expressive language delays can be part of a larger autism diagnosis but not necessarily

Yes I think that’s it. He’s higher functioning in his ability to receive language through print or verbally (mid 90s percentile) but lower functioning in his ability to write or verbally express (mid 30s percentile). I’m sorry to everybody for the encoding and decoding language — that seemed to be the language his therapist was using in our IEP meeting.

We got him checked out for autism when he was younger and it came back negative. I think I’m generally comfortable with the conclusion because he doesn’t really have other signs besides the expressive language issues.

He had a bad tongue tie as a baby that was eventually clipped when he was three because it was inhibiting his language production. I think the current medical guidelines are doctors don’t clip tongue ties even if they look bad at birth until they create language issues which is frustrating to say the least because you’re essentially waiting for issues to develop. Maybe that’s still the cause for the delay in language production and writing.

Is this scenario I described a possible description for dyslexia that I should look into?

It's not. The evidence for the impact of tongue ties on anything speech-related is very weak to non-existent. If it wasn't severe enough to impact feeding and wasn't touched until he was 3, it probably could have been left alone and made no difference. "Tethered oral tissues" is a fad right now in some sectors of the SLP community, especially social media influencers and those who want to promote their special "oral myofunctional therapy" (for lots of $$$), because it's the kind of thing you can make sound reasonable, but the actual evidence base is very poor. And to the extent that it even exists, it certainly wouldn't impact expressive language or writing. Don't look back with hindsight regret because this had nothing to do with any of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a typical presentation when a child is being treated for dyslexia or dyslexia-type concerns. Parents love OG-based programs, but they really don't address spelling sufficiently and only do so late in the remediation process. For this reason, you'll see if fairly often that parents here have continued concerns with encoding (spelling). Consider a speech to print approach rather than print to speech, such as OG.

Sounds in Syllables is an OG-based program that doesn't wait until later in the remediation process to address spelling.

[Anonymous]

My daughter presents like this and was diagnosed as dyslexic at 12.
She can read, and her comprehension is high due to her iq, but her pronunciation is terrible as is her spelling because she doesn’t understand it. In the scheme of things, it’s a minor presentation. She doesn’t understand also have basically no working memory which also works against spelling correctly even words she has seen recently (can only recall maybe one or two letters at a time).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you mean expressive vs receptive language?
My son has an expressive language disorder. It’s been a long road but he’s doing really well in high school after intensive speech therapy through 6th-ish grade.

As for the cause…. We never really got a good answer for that. Expressive language delays can be part of a larger autism diagnosis but not necessarily

Yes I think that’s it. He’s higher functioning in his ability to receive language through print or verbally (mid 90s percentile) but lower functioning in his ability to write or verbally express (mid 30s percentile). I’m sorry to everybody for the encoding and decoding language — that seemed to be the language his therapist was using in our IEP meeting.

We got him checked out for autism when he was younger and it came back negative. I think I’m generally comfortable with the conclusion because he doesn’t really have other signs besides the expressive language issues.

He had a bad tongue tie as a baby that was eventually clipped when he was three because it was inhibiting his language production. I think the current medical guidelines are doctors don’t clip tongue ties even if they look bad at birth until they create language issues which is frustrating to say the least because you’re essentially waiting for issues to develop. Maybe that’s still the cause for the delay in language production and writing.

Is this scenario I described a possible description for dyslexia that I should look into?

It's not. The evidence for the impact of tongue ties on anything speech-related is very weak to non-existent. If it wasn't severe enough to impact feeding and wasn't touched until he was 3, it probably could have been left alone and made no difference. "Tethered oral tissues" is a fad right now in some sectors of the SLP community, especially social media influencers and those who want to promote their special "oral myofunctional therapy" (for lots of $$$), because it's the kind of thing you can make sound reasonable, but the actual evidence base is very poor. And to the extent that it even exists, it certainly wouldn't impact expressive language or writing. Don't look back with hindsight regret because this had nothing to do with any of it.

Thanks for the kind words but it felt like in our circumstance it did make a big difference. Post surgery as soon as his mouth was half way healed we noticed a doubling in vocab, and it basically launched his speaking process. I understand that it’s tough to find a causal link, but his speech improvement was basically immediate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My daughter presents like this and was diagnosed as dyslexic at 12.
She can read, and her comprehension is high due to her iq, but her pronunciation is terrible as is her spelling because she doesn’t understand it. In the scheme of things, it’s a minor presentation. She doesn’t understand also have basically no working memory which also works against spelling correctly even words she has seen recently (can only recall maybe one or two letters at a time).

Thanks for this, we’ll look into it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you mean expressive vs receptive language?
My son has an expressive language disorder. It’s been a long road but he’s doing really well in high school after intensive speech therapy through 6th-ish grade.

As for the cause…. We never really got a good answer for that. Expressive language delays can be part of a larger autism diagnosis but not necessarily

Yes I think that’s it. He’s higher functioning in his ability to receive language through print or verbally (mid 90s percentile) but lower functioning in his ability to write or verbally express (mid 30s percentile). I’m sorry to everybody for the encoding and decoding language — that seemed to be the language his therapist was using in our IEP meeting.

We got him checked out for autism when he was younger and it came back negative. I think I’m generally comfortable with the conclusion because he doesn’t really have other signs besides the expressive language issues.

He had a bad tongue tie as a baby that was eventually clipped when he was three because it was inhibiting his language production. I think the current medical guidelines are doctors don’t clip tongue ties even if they look bad at birth until they create language issues which is frustrating to say the least because you’re essentially waiting for issues to develop. Maybe that’s still the cause for the delay in language production and writing.

Is this scenario I described a possible description for dyslexia that I should look into?

It's not. The evidence for the impact of tongue ties on anything speech-related is very weak to non-existent. If it wasn't severe enough to impact feeding and wasn't touched until he was 3, it probably could have been left alone and made no difference. "Tethered oral tissues" is a fad right now in some sectors of the SLP community, especially social media influencers and those who want to promote their special "oral myofunctional therapy" (for lots of $$$), because it's the kind of thing you can make sound reasonable, but the actual evidence base is very poor. And to the extent that it even exists, it certainly wouldn't impact expressive language or writing. Don't look back with hindsight regret because this had nothing to do with any of it.

Thanks for the kind words but it felt like in our circumstance it did make a big difference. Post surgery as soon as his mouth was half way healed we noticed a doubling in vocab, and it basically launched his speaking process. I understand that it’s tough to find a causal link, but his speech improvement was basically immediate.

Correlation does not equal causation. Age three is right around when a lot of language delayed children have a sudden speech explosion. It can easily happen from one week to the next.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you mean expressive vs receptive language?
My son has an expressive language disorder. It’s been a long road but he’s doing really well in high school after intensive speech therapy through 6th-ish grade.

As for the cause…. We never really got a good answer for that. Expressive language delays can be part of a larger autism diagnosis but not necessarily

Yes I think that’s it. He’s higher functioning in his ability to receive language through print or verbally (mid 90s percentile) but lower functioning in his ability to write or verbally express (mid 30s percentile). I’m sorry to everybody for the encoding and decoding language — that seemed to be the language his therapist was using in our IEP meeting.

We got him checked out for autism when he was younger and it came back negative. I think I’m generally comfortable with the conclusion because he doesn’t really have other signs besides the expressive language issues.

He had a bad tongue tie as a baby that was eventually clipped when he was three because it was inhibiting his language production. I think the current medical guidelines are doctors don’t clip tongue ties even if they look bad at birth until they create language issues which is frustrating to say the least because you’re essentially waiting for issues to develop. Maybe that’s still the cause for the delay in language production and writing.

Is this scenario I described a possible description for dyslexia that I should look into?

It's not. The evidence for the impact of tongue ties on anything speech-related is very weak to non-existent. If it wasn't severe enough to impact feeding and wasn't touched until he was 3, it probably could have been left alone and made no difference. "Tethered oral tissues" is a fad right now in some sectors of the SLP community, especially social media influencers and those who want to promote their special "oral myofunctional therapy" (for lots of $$$), because it's the kind of thing you can make sound reasonable, but the actual evidence base is very poor. And to the extent that it even exists, it certainly wouldn't impact expressive language or writing. Don't look back with hindsight regret because this had nothing to do with any of it.

Thanks for the kind words but it felt like in our circumstance it did make a big difference. Post surgery as soon as his mouth was half way healed we noticed a doubling in vocab, and it basically launched his speaking process. I understand that it’s tough to find a causal link, but his speech improvement was basically immediate.

Correlation does not equal causation. Age three is right around when a lot of language delayed children have a sudden speech explosion. It can easily happen from one week to the next.

Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you mean expressive vs receptive language?
My son has an expressive language disorder. It’s been a long road but he’s doing really well in high school after intensive speech therapy through 6th-ish grade.

As for the cause…. We never really got a good answer for that. Expressive language delays can be part of a larger autism diagnosis but not necessarily

Yes I think that’s it. He’s higher functioning in his ability to receive language through print or verbally (mid 90s percentile) but lower functioning in his ability to write or verbally express (mid 30s percentile). I’m sorry to everybody for the encoding and decoding language — that seemed to be the language his therapist was using in our IEP meeting.

We got him checked out for autism when he was younger and it came back negative. I think I’m generally comfortable with the conclusion because he doesn’t really have other signs besides the expressive language issues.

He had a bad tongue tie as a baby that was eventually clipped when he was three because it was inhibiting his language production. I think the current medical guidelines are doctors don’t clip tongue ties even if they look bad at birth until they create language issues which is frustrating to say the least because you’re essentially waiting for issues to develop. Maybe that’s still the cause for the delay in language production and writing.

Is this scenario I described a possible description for dyslexia that I should look into?

It's not. The evidence for the impact of tongue ties on anything speech-related is very weak to non-existent. If it wasn't severe enough to impact feeding and wasn't touched until he was 3, it probably could have been left alone and made no difference. "Tethered oral tissues" is a fad right now in some sectors of the SLP community, especially social media influencers and those who want to promote their special "oral myofunctional therapy" (for lots of $$$), because it's the kind of thing you can make sound reasonable, but the actual evidence base is very poor. And to the extent that it even exists, it certainly wouldn't impact expressive language or writing. Don't look back with hindsight regret because this had nothing to do with any of it.

Thanks for the kind words but it felt like in our circumstance it did make a big difference. Post surgery as soon as his mouth was half way healed we noticed a doubling in vocab, and it basically launched his speaking process. I understand that it’s tough to find a causal link, but his speech improvement was basically immediate.

What you are describing is speech articulation, not language. Language learning happens just by listening. It is very, very doubtul that a tongue tie would impact articultion or language to any significant degree. The timing may be a coincidence or confirmation bias.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you mean expressive vs receptive language?
My son has an expressive language disorder. It’s been a long road but he’s doing really well in high school after intensive speech therapy through 6th-ish grade.

As for the cause…. We never really got a good answer for that. Expressive language delays can be part of a larger autism diagnosis but not necessarily

Yes I think that’s it. He’s higher functioning in his ability to receive language through print or verbally (mid 90s percentile) but lower functioning in his ability to write or verbally express (mid 30s percentile). I’m sorry to everybody for the encoding and decoding language — that seemed to be the language his therapist was using in our IEP meeting.

We got him checked out for autism when he was younger and it came back negative. I think I’m generally comfortable with the conclusion because he doesn’t really have other signs besides the expressive language issues.

He had a bad tongue tie as a baby that was eventually clipped when he was three because it was inhibiting his language production. I think the current medical guidelines are doctors don’t clip tongue ties even if they look bad at birth until they create language issues which is frustrating to say the least because you’re essentially waiting for issues to develop. Maybe that’s still the cause for the delay in language production and writing.

Is this scenario I described a possible description for dyslexia that I should look into?

It's not. The evidence for the impact of tongue ties on anything speech-related is very weak to non-existent. If it wasn't severe enough to impact feeding and wasn't touched until he was 3, it probably could have been left alone and made no difference. "Tethered oral tissues" is a fad right now in some sectors of the SLP community, especially social media influencers and those who want to promote their special "oral myofunctional therapy" (for lots of $$$), because it's the kind of thing you can make sound reasonable, but the actual evidence base is very poor. And to the extent that it even exists, it certainly wouldn't impact expressive language or writing. Don't look back with hindsight regret because this had nothing to do with any of it.

Thanks for the kind words but it felt like in our circumstance it did make a big difference. Post surgery as soon as his mouth was half way healed we noticed a doubling in vocab, and it basically launched his speaking process. I understand that it’s tough to find a causal link, but his speech improvement was basically immediate.

What you are describing is speech articulation, not language. Language learning happens just by listening. It is very, very doubtul that a tongue tie would impact articultion or language to any significant degree. The timing may be a coincidence or confirmation bias.

Are you an ENT? Because that is exactly what happened to my DC whose tongue was heart shaped on the end. He was starting to talk after a language delay at around 3. The ENT, and yes, we had a second opinion, wouldn't clip it unless it was inhibiting articulation. You're telling me it was all just coincidence that the sounds he couldn't make were the tongue thrust sounds like N, D, L, etc.? Same for us, the improvement was immediate, and it helped him socially/emotionally because he wasn't melting down all the time because no one could understand him.