Loiderman vs North Bethesda

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:North Bethesda hands down. The lottery, non-selective magnets were created to try and bring more enthusiasm to lower-income schools with lower achievement scores. It doesn't mean that the special programs they house are particularly high level, BUT... they can be life-saving for those students who are not that interested in academic subjects and who are also passionate about these special topics.

For ex: I have a violinist kid who started playing at 3. She's in a private youth orchestra and All State. No school orchestra would ever be at her level, magnet or no. She's not the target audience for such a program. But someone with a passion for music with less experience might be very happy there.

In short, the 3 non-selective middle school magnets are to motivate students with specializations that are right up their alley, but not to bring them to pre-professional levels of achievement. And they're purposefully embedded in schools that do not have high test scores.

If you want straight-up academic excellence in core subjects, stick with the Walter Johnson cluster, OP. It's one of the best in Montgomery County. And then supplement the arts outside of school. That's what we did.

Lots of kids are in private orchestra's and at her level.

I know. She's friends with them. There aren't a lot of her level exactly, but in that general range, yes. We've been at this for a long time.

Are you talking about Loiderman PP? That the arts really aren’t that strong?

PP you replied to. I'm saying, bluntly, that you should stay at NB. These "magnets" are in name only. They don't select for the best and brightest like TPMS STEM and Eastern Humanities magnets (although now those too also include a lottery component, it's a little more diluted), so the end result reflects the candidate body. Sorry for being tactless. The arts at Loiederman specifically are not at all high level. They're good for kids who like doing these activities but who haven't benefited from years of private lessons and audition/competition opportunities and private dance conservatories/orchestra/etc.

[Anonymous]

Anne Arundel County does lottery for all of its magnets, and yet kids finishing the STEM and IB programs still have fantastic outcomes. Not having the "brightest and best" peer group doesn't automatically mean the quality of the education is low. I don't think this is a good place to get impartial answers, OP.

I am not familiar with the quality of the magnet programs, but it seems that a lot of people in these posts are intent on just bashing anything DCC related.

[Anonymous]

The orchestra and chorus at NB win a lot of prizes, fwiw.

[Anonymous]

These magnet programs are not real magnets. They have extra classes to draw brighter and richer families to the lower-income schools to raise the test scores. The classes are all fine, Loiederman allows Algebra in 6th if that's important to you. But, the commute is not worth it nor are the art classes. Its for kids who enjoy the arts, not the best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The orchestra and chorus at NB win a lot of prizes, fwiw.

Yes, my kids were there a few years ago, but we thought the NB music program was a real gem.

[Anonymous]

I have an out-of-bounds DC at Loiederman right now and could not be happier. We chose it for theater but other outstanding areas have emerged: chorus, global humanities, math. The teachers are deeply committed and DC is thriving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:North Bethesda hands down. The lottery, non-selective magnets were created to try and bring more enthusiasm to lower-income schools with lower achievement scores. It doesn't mean that the special programs they house are particularly high level, BUT... they can be life-saving for those students who are not that interested in academic subjects and who are also passionate about these special topics.

For ex: I have a violinist kid who started playing at 3. She's in a private youth orchestra and All State. No school orchestra would ever be at her level, magnet or no. She's not the target audience for such a program. But someone with a passion for music with less experience might be very happy there.

In short, the 3 non-selective middle school magnets are to motivate students with specializations that are right up their alley, but not to bring them to pre-professional levels of achievement. And they're purposefully embedded in schools that do not have high test scores.

If you want straight-up academic excellence in core subjects, stick with the Walter Johnson cluster, OP. It's one of the best in Montgomery County. And then supplement the arts outside of school. That's what we did.

Lots of kids are in private orchestra's and at her level.

I know. She's friends with them. There aren't a lot of her level exactly, but in that general range, yes. We've been at this for a long time.

Are you talking about Loiderman PP? That the arts really aren’t that strong?

It’s not strong at all. Most of the kids are just starting and no private lessons, even with the families who can afford it.

Clearly these are not real magnets since
selection is via lottery and.not ability. Stay at your home school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have an out-of-bounds DC at Loiederman right now and could not be happier. We chose it for theater but other outstanding areas have emerged: chorus, global humanities, math. The teachers are deeply committed and DC is thriving.

Thank you PP for this feedback!

[Anonymous]

My experience is pre-covid: The happiest out-of-bounds families seem to be those with kids interested in theater.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anne Arundel County does lottery for all of its magnets, and yet kids finishing the STEM and IB programs still have fantastic outcomes. Not having the "brightest and best" peer group doesn't automatically mean the quality of the education is low. I don't think this is a good place to get impartial answers, OP.

I am not familiar with the quality of the magnet programs, but it seems that a lot of people in these posts are intent on just bashing anything DCC related.

Please don't criticize what you apparently don't know a lot about. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have an out-of-bounds DC at Loiederman right now and could not be happier. We chose it for theater but other outstanding areas have emerged: chorus, global humanities, math. The teachers are deeply committed and DC is thriving.

I'd also add that excellence in instrumental music cannot be achieved by a school alone, so folks arguing that the orchestra or band aren't all-state level on their own are right. But a kid who wants to start a new instrument will make remarkable progress, and a kid who wants to contribute on their instrument will be welcomed and valued. The Loiederman bands in particular are really good.

Further, student instrumentalists can take class piano or class guitar, or HS level chorus once they're good enough (for HS credit). Auditions for honors chorus and all-state junior chorus are mentored and get real results.

Dance is another art form where kids are likely to find higher levels outside of school generally than in it, but Loiederman has a serious, auditioned dance company and plenty of classes. And the sky's the limit with theater: major productions with significantly competitive auditions and serious work that continues for months and months. Huge casts, huge crews, superb attitude, and lots of learning going on.

You don't have to audition people in to create a great arts _school_ so long as there are challenging opportunities for everyone from beginners to best. If all your kid wants to do is play the violin, Loiederman can't make them Juilliard-ready on its own. But if your violinist wants to spend their days gaining confidence and skill in other art forms alongside their regular MS requirements (which are taught excellently well in our experience), Loiederman might be a great fit for them. Block schedule + 3 electives is magic for our kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have an out-of-bounds DC at Loiederman right now and could not be happier. We chose it for theater but other outstanding areas have emerged: chorus, global humanities, math. The teachers are deeply committed and DC is thriving.

I'd also add that excellence in instrumental music cannot be achieved by a school alone, so folks arguing that the orchestra or band aren't all-state level on their own are right. But a kid who wants to start a new instrument will make remarkable progress, and a kid who wants to contribute on their instrument will be welcomed and valued. The Loiederman bands in particular are really good.

Further, student instrumentalists can take class piano or class guitar, or HS level chorus once they're good enough (for HS credit). Auditions for honors chorus and all-state junior chorus are mentored and get real results.

Dance is another art form where kids are likely to find higher levels outside of school generally than in it, but Loiederman has a serious, auditioned dance company and plenty of classes. And the sky's the limit with theater: major productions with significantly competitive auditions and serious work that continues for months and months. Huge casts, huge crews, superb attitude, and lots of learning going on.

You don't have to audition people in to create a great arts _school_ so long as there are challenging opportunities for everyone from beginners to best. If all your kid wants to do is play the violin, Loiederman can't make them Juilliard-ready on its own. But if your violinist wants to spend their days gaining confidence and skill in other art forms alongside their regular MS requirements (which are taught excellently well in our experience), Loiederman might be a great fit for them. Block schedule + 3 electives is magic for our kid.

Loiederman bands are not good and the band teacher is terrible. They don’t do competitions or much else. She does the absolute minimum. We removed our kid because of them. For beginners sure, it’s fine but not at the all state, MCYO, pvyo, all county levels.

[Anonymous]

Again, folks...

You can't expect school instrumental music programs at _any_ school to substitute for private study.

And you therefore can't expect school ensembles to be on par with county or all-state ensembles.

This is, in fact, why such competitive festivals exist: to give the most skilled youth musicians in a given area the opportunity to perform at a much higher level _than_they_do_at_school_. This is also why auditioned youth orchestras exist, along with the many other opportunities that are available to music students who have had the good fortune to be able to invest time, effort, energy, and expense to develop their talents.

But for students who did not start in preschool, or whose families cannot manage private lessons, school instrumental programs can be an important bridge to something they might not otherwise be able to access. Or they can allow students who (for example) have already had several years of piano to start trumpet, or to learn to play in a jazz band.

The case might be made that in a catchment area where more families have been engaged in private music study, the school band and orchestra are likely to be better. That is true. But again, the most committed youth musicians will not be depending exclusively on school ensembles for their development. If anything, they may have skills sufficiently far beyond their peers that their playing in the school band or school orchestra might be construed at least partially as an act of service. That this exercise has value is witnessed by the fact that most state music educators' associations actually won't let students audition for all-state if they do _not_ play in their school ensemble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Again, folks...

You can't expect school instrumental music programs at _any_ school to substitute for private study.

And you therefore can't expect school ensembles to be on par with county or all-state ensembles.

This is, in fact, why such competitive festivals exist: to give the most skilled youth musicians in a given area the opportunity to perform at a much higher level _than_they_do_at_school_. This is also why auditioned youth orchestras exist, along with the many other opportunities that are available to music students who have had the good fortune to be able to invest time, effort, energy, and expense to develop their talents.

But for students who did not start in preschool, or whose families cannot manage private lessons, school instrumental programs can be an important bridge to something they might not otherwise be able to access. Or they can allow students who (for example) have already had several years of piano to start trumpet, or to learn to play in a jazz band.

The case might be made that in a catchment area where more families have been engaged in private music study, the school band and orchestra are likely to be better. That is true. But again, the most committed youth musicians will not be depending exclusively on school ensembles for their development. If anything, they may have skills sufficiently far beyond their peers that their playing in the school band or school orchestra might be construed at least partially as an act of service. That this exercise has value is witnessed by the fact that most state music educators' associations actually won't let students audition for all-state if they do _not_ play in their school ensemble.

No need to belabor the point, PP. The reality in this area is that families have a lot of resources to pay for private music lessons, which means that schools can't keep up. The music kids tolerate school band/orchestra/choir just for the All-State opportunity. I'm a music parent of an All-State kid, and we all think that. Loiederman cannot elevate their music department because they don't have the resources for private instruction, which is what would be needed.

So I guess the take away from this thread is: if you have a generally academically-unmotivated kid who loves theater, Loiederman might be a good fit. Otherwise, stay at North Bethesda, which has a stellar academic reputation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Again, folks...

You can't expect school instrumental music programs at _any_ school to substitute for private study.

And you therefore can't expect school ensembles to be on par with county or all-state ensembles.

This is, in fact, why such competitive festivals exist: to give the most skilled youth musicians in a given area the opportunity to perform at a much higher level _than_they_do_at_school_. This is also why auditioned youth orchestras exist, along with the many other opportunities that are available to music students who have had the good fortune to be able to invest time, effort, energy, and expense to develop their talents.

But for students who did not start in preschool, or whose families cannot manage private lessons, school instrumental programs can be an important bridge to something they might not otherwise be able to access. Or they can allow students who (for example) have already had several years of piano to start trumpet, or to learn to play in a jazz band.

The case might be made that in a catchment area where more families have been engaged in private music study, the school band and orchestra are likely to be better. That is true. But again, the most committed youth musicians will not be depending exclusively on school ensembles for their development. If anything, they may have skills sufficiently far beyond their peers that their playing in the school band or school orchestra might be construed at least partially as an act of service. That this exercise has value is witnessed by the fact that most state music educators' associations actually won't let students audition for all-state if they do _not_ play in their school ensemble.

No need to belabor the point, PP. The reality in this area is that families have a lot of resources to pay for private music lessons, which means that schools can't keep up. The music kids tolerate school band/orchestra/choir just for the All-State opportunity. I'm a music parent of an All-State kid, and we all think that. Loiederman cannot elevate their music department because they don't have the resources for private instruction, which is what would be needed.

So I guess the take away from this thread is: if you have a generally academically-unmotivated kid who loves theater, Loiederman might be a good fit. Otherwise, stay at North Bethesda, which has a stellar academic reputation.

Its more complicated than that. You need warm, friendly welcoming teachers who teach. Many music teachers come MS and HS don't teach and kids have to learn instruments on their own to progress. Its not like elementary where its seperated into instruments and they get a lesson on that instrument. This teacher doesn't care (though most we have experienced with music do the absolute minimum but there are a few great ones).

For theater, its very competative as lots of kids want theater and few spots. You are better off at your home school for theater and doing a private theater.