ESCP Business School - Paris/London…. École Supérieure de Commerce de Paris (Bachelor Degree Program)

[Anonymous]

The savings are part of why I chose the UK for grad school (posted above). It’s a real consideration and a real benefit but it comes with the downsides mentioned. I don’t think you can escape them. Ultimately it will just be playing the odds, and the odds of finding good US employment are going to be better at a school here. The question is just how much comfort you need.

Have you thought about schools in the US that are cheaper/offer merit? Some of the ones with business programs have very good career services, offer money to strong students, and will have options for semesters or even a year abroad in the places your kid is interested in being.

[Anonymous]

Mambojambo2024 wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Mambojambo2024 wrote:I hear you. The decision to go abroad shouldn’t be done simply for financial reasons. I do wrestle with that thought….but I am leaving this decision up to my DS. Sure, we would save $250k plus over 4 years and this could give my DS an incredible head start in his life. But it shouldn’t be the primary motivation if the independence/maturity, initiative to understand why the kids wants to go abroad is not there to begin with.

We have also known 3 kids locally that attended UK schools simply for financial reasons. The results were all over the place. Not Oxbridge but Russell group unis. One couldn’t survive and returned year two after not adapting to their Lecture/Tutor system where 90% of your grade is one test at the end of the year. The other one is doing well and is graduating from Exeter in May with a degree in Marine Science and is currently applying to Masters programs all over the world. The 3rd one we know went to Bristol. Graduated in C. Engineering and is now back in the US working at a large international Engineering Construction firm. This one absolutely hated it when he was there. But now that he has been back for 2 years, he constantly talks about Bristol and how amazing it was….short memory I guess.

My concern is more with how US employers look at EU Business Schools. ESCP is not a UK school. It is a French school, that has a London campus and awards a UK degree.

When I look at say, a school like Tulane and its Freeman Business school (not picking on Tulane, amazing school, just an example of a private t50/t60), I have a tough time from just a Financial standpoint to find the value/benefit at $80k/yr vs ESCP at $56k for all 3 years.

Not sure but I would guess an "EU Business School" is probably worse than a UK school for the reasons mentioned above. It's even less relevant to US employers than UK schools, which are at least in the English speaking world. For employers well versed in international universities and different cultures/very international/global companies I assume it would be fine, though.

I would absolutely go with Tulane over this French school if your DC wants to do business in the U.S., ESPECIALLY if it's business in the southeast. Tulane is known to be a selective school with a great reputation in the U.S.

Husband went to Bocconi. His experience has been fine, but it was graduate school. Not undergrad. There are excellent non UK business schools in Europe that rival anything a t60 would offer in terms of academics. Most of these schools teach in English.

As for the Tulane example, we don’t live in the Southeast. It was just an example of an expensive private US school. But the fact remains that if you can save $250k, I could theorically put that $250k savings into a a fund and DS would have $300k Plus to start his life in the US after graduate school. Maybe to start a business, or whatever….On the one hand, I’;m worried about his decision, on the other hand, I would have loved the opportunity to have a $300k fund to start my life after grad school without the pressures of having to take the best paying job after school vs the “best job for you” .

I definitely don't doubt the quality of academics at any of these EU programs and know that the U.S. doesn't have a monopoly on amazing schools. This is largely unrelated to a U.S. hiring manager's preferences, however. I think American culture is such that the most well regarded universities in the U.S. are well known to Americans, so even though the U of Tokyo or UK schools might be "better" schools than many U.S. ones, graduates of Wisconsin or Tulane might be selected based on name recognition alone. (Definitely true for regional companies)

That being said, a 300k fund right out of college might be totally worth it. I don't know starting business salaries but it sounds like a pretty great deal. Also, after you have experience name of undergrad becomes way less important, so it might not even matter that much in the end.

[Anonymous]

^^^also I know it will still be more expensive but the differential will shrink.

[Anonymous]

HEC diplômé here again.

Several years after I graduated, I was in the US and I became interested in a firm that was little, but doing niche work that really interested me. Like I said, the firm was little and most associates and partners had MBA's from places like George Mason or even the University of Phoenix ( not kidding ). When I interviewed; I was literally asked wtf was the Paris HEC and whether it was "accredited. "

There will definitely be a cost to going to uni abroad. You can mitigate that cost by getting a US MBA or having a boring F500 career, but there is that cost.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:HEC diplômé here again.

Several years after I graduated, I was in the US and I became interested in a firm that was little, but doing niche work that really interested me. Like I said, the firm was little and most associates and partners had MBA's from places like George Mason or even the University of Phoenix ( not kidding ). When I interviewed; I was literally asked wtf was the Paris HEC and whether it was "accredited. "

There will definitely be a cost to going to uni abroad. You can mitigate that cost by getting a US MBA or having a boring F500 career, but there is that cost.

NP. Above post rings true with me.

I have an MBA classmate that made some less conventional educational choices in the late 90s.

1) US women's college for BA
2) 1-1.5 Year Master's in Management from a school in Paris (can't remember which school)
3) Worked in marketing for a US multinational in Boston
4) Worked at another US multinational
5) US MBA Top 20 school on leave
6) Returned to US multinational
7) High-end realtor (family business)

Points being that she had a US undergrad degree, she didn't really need to double up on masters' degrees but a French one was good enough for an MNC job. And the career was eclectic.

Has your DC fully investigated NYC schools? How about schools with strength in international business? I hear South Carolina specializes in this. What about Thunderbird?

https://sc.edu/study/colleges_schools/moore/study/international_business/index.php

https://thunderbird.asu.edu/degree

There might be scholarship potential at some US schools...

I believe the London School of Economics would be somewhat better known. Anything of interest there? I worked for a Fed GS-15 who was Cornell and LSE PhD and my manager had an LSE Master's.

The only people I've met with prestige European MBAs have been expats relocated to America by MNC employers.

A final thought. Kids who go to business programs tend to think the best jobs are the most popular ones. Which are also the highest-paying ones. There is a ton of groupthink. So, while it's nice to think of the $300K savings as a freedom fund, you may find your kid busily constructing his own gilded cage from the values and priorities of his program and classmates. The real independent thinkers go into rare liberal arts majors.

[Anonymous]

Mambojambo2024 wrote:Hello,

Long time lurker but going through the process now with DS.
DS has done two summer pre-college programs in Soph and Jr year in Europe. While his top target schools are in the US, he has become enamored with ESCP. He toured their London campus and their Turin campus.

Has anyone here even heard anything about ESCP Business School or know kids that have applied or considered? I know in the US there are several t50 that have study abroad opportunities with ESCP. But the school is well known mainly in Europe. Seems like an incredible experience for those kids that know what they want to study. 3 years in 3 different campuses. Paris, London, Turin.

We recently met 3 recent grads from their BSC in Management program. Two American kids and one Mexican kid. They all spoke very highly of their experience. Definitely NOT the typical US college experience. Mexican kid is at McKinsey, one of the American kids at BCG and their other American friend at Airbus.

DS is fluent in Spanish, is learning Italian and has a EU passport alongside his US passport.

Looking at it from the context of an American parent about to drop $300k on an education, I just couldn’t believe how much cheaper Tuition is. You not only graduate in just 3 years, but Tuition for those with a EU passport is $18k. $54k for all 3 years vs $70k Plus for just one year at the private t60s schools he is looking at in the US. He is focusing on t20-t60 ranges.

I have a hard time believing a $300k+ education at a private t60 US college is 6x+ better than a business education at a good European Business school.

I dont know if he would ever come back to work in the US. He is 17. I’m assuming he would like to. My concern is how US employers would look at an American kid with a degree from an European Business school. He would likely stay in Europe to get a Masters right after graduating and maybe come back with 2 degrees in 4 years. For instance, ESCP has a priority application deal with Imperial College for some of their 1-yr MS programs.


Any info or commentary would be appreciated.


DS

Good points here but wondering why you are comparing to an expensive top 60 private? Why not a top 60 public that would be half the price? Also for US students who know what they want to study and attend a top 50+ public, they can graduate in 3 years due to DE and AP credits. Kind of sounds like you are trying to convince yourself that the EU option is better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HEC diplômé here again.

Several years after I graduated, I was in the US and I became interested in a firm that was little, but doing niche work that really interested me. Like I said, the firm was little and most associates and partners had MBA's from places like George Mason or even the University of Phoenix ( not kidding ). When I interviewed; I was literally asked wtf was the Paris HEC and whether it was "accredited. "

There will definitely be a cost to going to uni abroad. You can mitigate that cost by getting a US MBA or having a boring F500 career, but there is that cost.

NP. Above post rings true with me.

I have an MBA classmate that made some less conventional educational choices in the late 90s.

1) US women's college for BA
2) 1-1.5 Year Master's in Management from a school in Paris (can't remember which school)
3) Worked in marketing for a US multinational in Boston
4) Worked at another US multinational
5) US MBA Top 20 school on leave
6) Returned to US multinational
7) High-end realtor (family business)

Points being that she had a US undergrad degree, she didn't really need to double up on masters' degrees but a French one was good enough for an MNC job. And the career was eclectic.

Has your DC fully investigated NYC schools? How about schools with strength in international business? I hear South Carolina specializes in this. What about Thunderbird?

https://sc.edu/study/colleges_schools/moore/study/international_business/index.php

https://thunderbird.asu.edu/degree

There might be scholarship potential at some US schools...

I believe the London School of Economics would be somewhat better known. Anything of interest there? I worked for a Fed GS-15 who was Cornell and LSE PhD and my manager had an LSE Master's.

The only people I've met with prestige European MBAs have been expats relocated to America by MNC employers.

A final thought. Kids who go to business programs tend to think the best jobs are the most popular ones. Which are also the highest-paying ones. There is a ton of groupthink. So, while it's nice to think of the $300K savings as a freedom fund, you may find your kid busily constructing his own gilded cage from the values and priorities of his program and classmates. The real independent thinkers go into rare liberal arts majors.

So true. At NYU Stern, everyone wants to go into consulting or finance. No one knows why or exactly what they would do, but everyone wants to do it. - Stern MBA

[Anonymous]

I think it sounds like an amazing opportunity. My kids are not great at languages so I am not directing them this way but if you son is fluent in Spanish and you think he can pick up a second language in Italian and perhaps a bit of French I think k he will be super successful.

As PP mentioned there may be some employers in the US who won’t recognize the degree but the multi national companies will and that’s who he’d want to target anyway. And once he has the first job all that matters is his employment record.

Of course it may mean that he ends up in Europe so you/he’d need to be ok with that.

[Mambojambo2024]

Anonymous wrote:

Mambojambo2024 wrote:Hello,

Long time lurker but going through the process now with DS.
DS has done two summer pre-college programs in Soph and Jr year in Europe. While his top target schools are in the US, he has become enamored with ESCP. He toured their London campus and their Turin campus.

Has anyone here even heard anything about ESCP Business School or know kids that have applied or considered? I know in the US there are several t50 that have study abroad opportunities with ESCP. But the school is well known mainly in Europe. Seems like an incredible experience for those kids that know what they want to study. 3 years in 3 different campuses. Paris, London, Turin.

We recently met 3 recent grads from their BSC in Management program. Two American kids and one Mexican kid. They all spoke very highly of their experience. Definitely NOT the typical US college experience. Mexican kid is at McKinsey, one of the American kids at BCG and their other American friend at Airbus.

DS is fluent in Spanish, is learning Italian and has a EU passport alongside his US passport.

Looking at it from the context of an American parent about to drop $300k on an education, I just couldn’t believe how much cheaper Tuition is. You not only graduate in just 3 years, but Tuition for those with a EU passport is $18k. $54k for all 3 years vs $70k Plus for just one year at the private t60s schools he is looking at in the US. He is focusing on t20-t60 ranges.

I have a hard time believing a $300k+ education at a private t60 US college is 6x+ better than a business education at a good European Business school.

I dont know if he would ever come back to work in the US. He is 17. I’m assuming he would like to. My concern is how US employers would look at an American kid with a degree from an European Business school. He would likely stay in Europe to get a Masters right after graduating and maybe come back with 2 degrees in 4 years. For instance, ESCP has a priority application deal with Imperial College for some of their 1-yr MS programs.


Any info or commentary would be appreciated.


DS

Good points here but wondering why you are comparing to an expensive top 60 private? Why not a top 60 public that would be half the price? Also for US students who know what they want to study and attend a top 50+ public, they can graduate in 3 years due to DE and AP credits. Kind of sounds like you are trying to convince yourself that the EU option is better.

Simply because these are the schools my son has applied to….I’m not trying to convince myself of anything. I’m simply making observations and asking for opinions as it relates to this ONE school he applied to in Europe. The decision of where to go is not mine. He has applied to two t50 public’s as an OOS applicant and 1 in-state that will be very tough for him to get in, so who knows…..5 privates from t20-t60, 3 UK schools and 1 EU school. So far he has been accepted at a Private t-100 as his safety. While he got some scholarship at this one, it is still $50k per yr Tuition. None of the privates he has applied to will give him any credit for his AP/Dual Credit courses, so he will do 4 years.

So there is nothing to convince…only trying to be factual with cost/benefit analysis based on the schools he has applied to (his decision) not mine….

[Mambojambo2024]

Anonymous wrote:I think it sounds like an amazing opportunity. My kids are not great at languages so I am not directing them this way but if you son is fluent in Spanish and you think he can pick up a second language in Italian and perhaps a bit of French I think k he will be super successful.

As PP mentioned there may be some employers in the US who won’t recognize the degree but the multi national companies will and that’s who he’d want to target anyway. And once he has the first job all that matters is his employment record.

Of course it may mean that he ends up in Europe so you/he’d need to be ok with that.

thank you. Yes, that is what me, as a mother, is struggling with. He will make the decision and I will be there to support his decision, whatever it is. He is definitely ok going abroad for college. I’m ok with it, but quite frankly, a little scared and just trying to make sure he fully understands the consequences, both positives and negatives without trying to insert my personal bias.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like a great program. 1 year in each country. Similar to USC’s WBB, but this one just in Europe.

My nephew just graduated from their Masters in Finance program. It is a very well regarded program in Europe. Currently at UBS in Zurich.

[Anonymous]

They do claim to be the oldest business school in the world, despite what Wharton says…

[Anonymous]

I was not familiar with the BSc program, but i wish i had this opportunity when i was younger.
It looks like a 3yr Study abroad program at 3 major European cities at one the better b schools in Europe. What is not like if your kid knows it wants to study business. Unless your kid is at a no brainer at a t20, this looks like an amazing opportunity!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was not familiar with the BSc program, but i wish i had this opportunity when i was younger.
It looks like a 3yr Study abroad program at 3 major European cities at one the better b schools in Europe. What is not like if your kid knows it wants to study business. Unless your kid is at a no brainer at a t20, this looks like an amazing opportunity!

This is the issue with most EU/UK schools. You better be sure that the major u select is the one for you. But if you do know business mgmt is it, then these are great options:


https://escp.eu/

[Anonymous]

Have you factored room and board in? And general living? Many European universities function like community colleges here in terms of food and lodging, ie no dorms, health center, food halls etc. Finding a place to live in Turin, grocery shopping and cooking, laundry (usually with no dryers), finding a doctor if ill etc are all factors to consider.