Maryland is just one of just nine states where class size is an illegal subject of bargaining

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly it’s insane that we simply accommodate anyone who moves into the area past kindergarten. If you move into a school area, you ought to have to find a school that has room for you. That’s the way they do it in England. And you just figure it out.
I know that’s a fantasy, but it’s nearly impossible for schools to plan year over year with the constant increases and decreases in class size

Obviously that would never work in the US in part due to low density and limited transit, but to have any hope you'd need open enrollment and school vouchers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is this correct? Are there any non profits actively working to change this?

My DC has 31 in their 2nd grade class this year.

Why don’t you start a non profit to work on it, lady?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this correct? Are there any non profits actively working to change this?

My DC has 31 in their 2nd grade class this year.

Why don’t you start a non profit to work on it, lady?

What would be the point? The state law just saves everyone from pointless arguing. Districts have to take in students regardless of the number of classrooms and teachers they have. The most they could do is offer non-binding targets, which MCPS already has.

[Anonymous]

By point of comparison, firefighters in MD a bargain for minimum staffing levels (eg a rig can’t go out without at least X firefighters on it). Class size is similar to a staffing level — eg for X number of students you need X number of teachers.

Also, there’s a difference between right to work and right to negotiate. In a right to work state, it just means they can’t require you to pay union dues. After the Supreme Court decision a few years ago (Janus), this is true for all public employers so all public schools are essentially right to work.

But some states don’t give public employees the right to collectively batgain. Public employees are not covered by the NLRA (federal labor law) so each state has its own law about whether public employees have the right to unionize, strike, etc. Jntil recently, Virginia didn’t really have the right to collective bargaining for teachers.

OP, can you say what the basis is for your assertion? Is it in state statute or some case law or what? I didn’t know this was an illegal topic of bargaining.

[Anonymous]

What do you mean illegal? Is it a state law? a regulation by the state’s education department? something to do with labor laws?

Does it just have to do with collective bargaining or is it a general gag order? The union is heavily involved in local school board politics. If they really cared about this, they could make it a criteria for the apple ballot.

[Anonymous]

This is outrageous! Maryland should be at least 2 states!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is this correct? Are there any non profits actively working to change this?

My DC has 31 in their 2nd grade class this year.

My 1st grade class in MCPS 30+ years ago had 35 kids. It was fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is this correct? Are there any non profits actively working to change this?

My DC has 31 in their 2nd grade class this year.

Why do you expect the teachers decide education policy for you?

If you want smaller classes, lobby the school board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean illegal? Is it a state law? a regulation by the state’s education department? something to do with labor laws?

Does it just have to do with collective bargaining or is it a general gag order? The union is heavily involved in local school board politics. If they really cared about this, they could make it a criteria for the apple ballot.

There is no union, actually, here. They are just associations. They can bargain, but the ability is limited to specific areas. Also, teacher’s cannot strike in Maryland.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly it’s insane that we simply accommodate anyone who moves into the area past kindergarten. If you move into a school area, you ought to have to find a school that has room for you. That’s the way they do it in England. And you just figure it out.
I know that’s a fantasy, but it’s nearly impossible for schools to plan year over year with the constant increases and decreases in class size

Obviously that would never work in the US in part due to low density and limited transit, but to have any hope you'd need open enrollment and school vouchers.

Not sure about any of that, but a boundary study would help, especially since one hasn't been done for 40 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean illegal? Is it a state law? a regulation by the state’s education department? something to do with labor laws?

Does it just have to do with collective bargaining or is it a general gag order? The union is heavily involved in local school board politics. If they really cared about this, they could make it a criteria for the apple ballot.

There is no union, actually, here. They are just associations. They can bargain, but the ability is limited to specific areas. Also, teacher’s cannot strike in Maryland.

What do you think a union is?

Yes, MCEA is a union.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:By point of comparison, firefighters in MD a bargain for minimum staffing levels (eg a rig can’t go out without at least X firefighters on it). Class size is similar to a staffing level — eg for X number of students you need X number of teachers.

Also, there’s a difference between right to work and right to negotiate. In a right to work state, it just means they can’t require you to pay union dues. After the Supreme Court decision a few years ago (Janus), this is true for all public employers so all public schools are essentially right to work.

But some states don’t give public employees the right to collectively batgain. Public employees are not covered by the NLRA (federal labor law) so each state has its own law about whether public employees have the right to unionize, strike, etc. Jntil recently, Virginia didn’t really have the right to collective bargaining for teachers.

OP, can you say what the basis is for your assertion? Is it in state statute or some case law or what? I didn’t know this was an illegal topic of bargaining.

Md. Code, Educ. § 6-408
"(3) A public school employer may not negotiate the school calendar, the maximum number of students assigned to a class, or any matter that is precluded by applicable statutory law."

I don't see how you think this could be subject to negotiations without conflicting with the legal obligation to educate any child in the district.

[Anonymous]

They are a politics and money /jobs program oriented union. I have not received support from them even when students had a record year of violence and admin were covering up the violence. They still went after teachers and the union reps just rolled over and went along with a witch hunt to let go new teachers as the students were out of control with no consequences, punishments , and the schools getting sued for violence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By point of comparison, firefighters in MD a bargain for minimum staffing levels (eg a rig can’t go out without at least X firefighters on it). Class size is similar to a staffing level — eg for X number of students you need X number of teachers.

Also, there’s a difference between right to work and right to negotiate. In a right to work state, it just means they can’t require you to pay union dues. After the Supreme Court decision a few years ago (Janus), this is true for all public employers so all public schools are essentially right to work.

But some states don’t give public employees the right to collectively batgain. Public employees are not covered by the NLRA (federal labor law) so each state has its own law about whether public employees have the right to unionize, strike, etc. Jntil recently, Virginia didn’t really have the right to collective bargaining for teachers.

OP, can you say what the basis is for your assertion? Is it in state statute or some case law or what? I didn’t know this was an illegal topic of bargaining.

Md. Code, Educ. § 6-408
"(3) A public school employer may not negotiate the school calendar, the maximum number of students assigned to a class, or any matter that is precluded by applicable statutory law."

I don't see how you think this could be subject to negotiations without conflicting with the legal obligation to educate any child in the district.

It makes sense. There is a requirement to educate every child and school boards don't have taxing authority. What happens if they negotiate a 25 kid cap that they can't meet?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is this correct? Are there any non profits actively working to change this?

My DC has 31 in their 2nd grade class this year.

It's one of the things teachers' unions work on politically.