Differentiation in Humanities classes - High school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are at NCS and it sounds like you want coed so this is not completely relevant but our experience is that all the English and History classes are taught at an exceptionally high level. The only kids who get As (or A minuses for that matter) are those who are REALLY strong humanities kids. It actually sucks for the STEM kids because while math classes are differentiated (and English kids take lower levels of math), there is no humanities differentiation.

As such, the girls who graduate at the top of the class (and go on to Ivies, etc, unhooked) are always the ones who excel in humanities. They might take high math/science classes or they might not (it doesn't really matter). In contrast, the girls who might be exceptionally talented in math/science but who aren't equally talented in English end up with lower GPAs and of course, crummier college placements.

+1. Not leveling the classes sometimes means they're harder for most people, not easier! I went to a boarding school that didn't offer AP/honors/whatever at all in English or History, but those classes were insanely challenging.

I also think it's smart for schools not to "level" all subjects in the same way. In math, honors courses tend to move faster and math usually allows for that. But you can't just speed up English because being a fast reader isn't indicative of skill in the subject. The way you create rigor and challenge is just different.

For OP's purposes, I'd look at the class content itself (what books do they read? how much writing do they do?) rather than the levels.

This. I'd guess that the one level English class at most of the schools you mention are at least at the honors level of many public and Catholic schools that serve a broader student body.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our kid is pretty strong in math but prefers humanities (English in particular). I've noticed that there is no differentiation in Humanities courses at some of the high schools we are applying to. This was a bit surprising to me since they are known as academically rigorous schools. For example, Maret only offers English 9 and English 10 (putting kids who both love and don't love English together). If there is no differentiation, will my kid who loves deep discussions of literature enjoy the classes in these schools, or should we only look at schools that offer differentiation in Humanities?

I can't speak to Maret, but can speak to our kid's school where there is no differentiation in English (or history) in 9th and 10th, and the level of difficultly in those classes is considerable. I doubt your kid would be bored.

[Anonymous]

In our experience at 2 big 5 schools, the English classes at these schools are rigorous and both of my strong writers have been really pushed and had to work hard for A range grades so the learning is there.

It does suck for GPA purposes in comparison to STEM kids (especially for the schools with the cum laude society or rank based on weighted GPA). For college admissions, you can consider having your child take European or World history in 10th and taking the AP test even if school isn't offering an AP exam (same goes for US History in 11th, but most schools I think have honors history by then). They can take the AP English Lang and AP World Language tests in 11th (again even if school doesn't offer these classes). Some self studying is required especially for history--for English/World Language it's more about practicing to know how to pace themself, but general content/skills will have been taught even if the class isn't officially AP. These tests would help show some advanced competency on the part of your student (and potentially give them some college credit which is nice).

[Anonymous]

I will also add, the jump in rigor between 8th grade English/History and 9th grade English/History was big for my kids even coming from programs we thought were strong in MS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I will also add, the jump in rigor between 8th grade English/History and 9th grade English/History was big for my kids even coming from programs we thought were strong in MS.

Even within the same K-12 school, jump in expectations and quality of discussion was big.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids are at NCS and it sounds like you want coed so this is not completely relevant but our experience is that all the English and History classes are taught at an exceptionally high level. The only kids who get As (or A minuses for that matter) are those who are REALLY strong humanities kids. It actually sucks for the STEM kids because while math classes are differentiated (and English kids take lower levels of math), there is no humanities differentiation.

As such, the girls who graduate at the top of the class (and go on to Ivies, etc, unhooked) are always the ones who excel in humanities. They might take high math/science classes or they might not (it doesn't really matter). In contrast, the girls who might be exceptionally talented in math/science but who aren't equally talented in English end up with lower GPAs and of course, crummier college placements.

This is the case at Sidwell too. Our DC is strong in humanities still had to work hard and got new feedback throughout 4 years at Sidwell from English/History teachers. They said each teacher had their own "preferences" for writing (which required learning how to adapt to each one) so they ended up learning many different styles. I suspect this is harder for STEM kids who aren't as strong at humanities. As this PP said - the humanities path has a higher baseline difficulty than a non-advanced math/science class does. There's no option to take a less intense class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here again. I don't mean to single out Maret (though that is one that we are closely looking at). I've noticed many of the DC coed schools (Burke, GDS, Field, Sidwell) do not have differentiation in humanities classes until 11th grade when stronger electives are offered. How is this experience for kids who are especially strong in English or History? That is, do kids who love these subjects experience deep and rich discussions in classes where some kids may not be as strong or interested in the subject? I ask because my kid is a bit frustrated at her current school where there is no differentiation and some kids hold the class back.

Maret is strange in that they have only a single accelerated humanities course is a US history class which is 10th grade in their curriculum.

That being said, apparently that course is a great class, but it feels like some of their electives should divide into accelerated/honors tracks.

Sidwell has none - so Maret is not so strange. I think there are other schools that also do this. GDS doesn't offer advanced level humanities until 11th grade. I'm not sure Potomac offers any.

FWIW - many Sidwell students take AP English exam and get great outcomes

[Anonymous]

OP here. These responses are very helpful. Thank you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are at NCS and it sounds like you want coed so this is not completely relevant but our experience is that all the English and History classes are taught at an exceptionally high level. The only kids who get As (or A minuses for that matter) are those who are REALLY strong humanities kids. It actually sucks for the STEM kids because while math classes are differentiated (and English kids take lower levels of math), there is no humanities differentiation.

As such, the girls who graduate at the top of the class (and go on to Ivies, etc, unhooked) are always the ones who excel in humanities. They might take high math/science classes or they might not (it doesn't really matter). In contrast, the girls who might be exceptionally talented in math/science but who aren't equally talented in English end up with lower GPAs and of course, crummier college placements.

This is the case at Sidwell too. Our DC is strong in humanities still had to work hard and got new feedback throughout 4 years at Sidwell from English/History teachers. They said each teacher had their own "preferences" for writing (which required learning how to adapt to each one) so they ended up learning many different styles. I suspect this is harder for STEM kids who aren't as strong at humanities. As this PP said - the humanities path has a higher baseline difficulty than a non-advanced math/science class does. There's no option to take a less intense class.

Same at SAAS. There is only one track, and it is what would be the top track at other schools. Math has different tracks mainly because boys arrive in various grades from many schools that track math in several different ways, so they created multiple paths to get from where you were when you arrived through at least AP Calculus, but also beyond.