Fenty being voted out because of "The Plan"

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
Not to put too fine a point on it, but not every Gray supporter believes in The Plan. But *every* believer in The Plan is a Gray supporter. This is in part because Gray has explicitly made an appeal to these folks.

I would think that an "Plan" true believers would suspect Gray is part of the conspiracy and, hence, support one fringe candidate or another. Regardless, for a long time it's been clear that the most racially divisive individuals are anti-Gray and intent on scaring the crap out of White voters.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:Gray's support is actually a diverse coalition:

1) "The Plan" conspiracy theorists.
2) Alienated DCPS status-quoians
3) "Good Government" fundamentalists

Incidentally, there was a great This American Life episode where they did a story on The Plan. Yes it's fucking idiotic. But it also has a huge number of believers.

Lot's of wacko theories have lots of supporters. A few years ago, there was this crazy idea that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. I was shocked that anyone believed such foolishness. There is another really crazy theory going around -- that any significant number of people support the DCPS status quo. I have never met such a person.I only hear about such people from those who think that anything less than 100% support for Rhee means you support the status quo.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not to put too fine a point on it, but not every Gray supporter believes in The Plan. But *every* believer in The Plan is a Gray supporter. This is in part because Gray has explicitly made an appeal to these folks.

I would think that an "Plan" true believers would suspect Gray is part of the conspiracy and, hence, support one fringe candidate or another. Regardless, for a long time it's been clear that the most racially divisive individuals are anti-Gray and intent on scaring the crap out of White voters.

Here, let me remove my imperial wizard hood for just one second, and drop a little bit of knowledge on you. You'll have to go to Act II, though the whole show is definitely worth listening to:

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/350/human-resources

The Plan actually quite a popular belief in the urban black community, and not particularly controversial.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gray's support is actually a diverse coalition:

1) "The Plan" conspiracy theorists.
2) Alienated DCPS status-quoians
3) "Good Government" fundamentalists

Incidentally, there was a great This American Life episode where they did a story on The Plan. Yes it's fucking idiotic. But it also has a huge number of believers.

Lot's of wacko theories have lots of supporters. A few years ago, there was this crazy idea that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. I was shocked that anyone believed such foolishness. There is another really crazy theory going around -- that any significant number of people support the DCPS status quo. I have never met such a person.I only hear about such people from those who think that anything less than 100% support for Rhee means you support the status quo.

I've met plenty of folks in some crappy schools who thought DCPS could "do better" in some abstract way, but who were mostly happy with their school, and preferred the status quo over any kind of fundamental change. And when I say, fundamental change, I'm not talking about "Rhee-form", but anything beyond building improvements, etc...

[Anonymous]

17:45 Your friends should talk to people with children in DCPS under Rhee! I will say no more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Not my experience. I think it's more nuanced than this. I know many, many parents of current DCPS students who are big Rhee fans. In my (admittedly anecdotal) experience, the parents who hate Rhee are those who think that--for whatever DCPS' reputation in general--their schools are doing just fine, thank you very much. Almost every parent I've met who believes that the system is on the cusp of becoming decent--but whatever gains are fragile--is at least Rhee-agnostic.

Interesting reflection. Personally, I was agnostic on Rhee until I saw how she bungled things with two schools which my daughter had attended and which didn't need to be fixed. If she hadn't meddled and made a mess of things, I don't know how I would feel about the election.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not to put too fine a point on it, but not every Gray supporter believes in The Plan. But *every* believer in The Plan is a Gray supporter. This is in part because Gray has explicitly made an appeal to these folks.

I would think that an "Plan" true believers would suspect Gray is part of the conspiracy and, hence, support one fringe candidate or another. Regardless, for a long time it's been clear that the most racially divisive individuals are anti-Gray and intent on scaring the crap out of White voters.

Here, let me remove my imperial wizard hood for just one second, and drop a little bit of knowledge on you. You'll have to go to Act II, though the whole show is definitely worth listening to:

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/350/human-resources

The Plan actually quite a popular belief in the urban black community, and not particularly controversial.

NP here. I've heard that piece and know people who were interviewed for it, who felt that the producers twisted their words. I lost respect for Ira Glass after I heard that show.

That said, I do think there are people out there who mistakenly believe in this conspiracy as if all white people are coordinating a carefully crafted plan to move black folks out. They're nuts of course. On the other hand, it can't be denied that gentrification is making it harder for working class people (primarily black) to stay in the city. So, as they say, "just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not to put too fine a point on it, but not every Gray supporter believes in The Plan. But *every* believer in The Plan is a Gray supporter. This is in part because Gray has explicitly made an appeal to these folks.

I would think that an "Plan" true believers would suspect Gray is part of the conspiracy and, hence, support one fringe candidate or another. Regardless, for a long time it's been clear that the most racially divisive individuals are anti-Gray and intent on scaring the crap out of White voters.

Here, let me remove my imperial wizard hood for just one second, and drop a little bit of knowledge on you. You'll have to go to Act II, though the whole show is definitely worth listening to:

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/350/human-resources

The Plan actually quite a popular belief in the urban black community, and not particularly controversial.

NP here. I've heard that piece and know people who were interviewed for it, who felt that the producers twisted their words. I lost respect for Ira Glass after I heard that show.

That said, I do think there are people out there who mistakenly believe in this conspiracy as if all white people are coordinating a carefully crafted plan to move black folks out. They're nuts of course. On the other hand, it can't be denied that gentrification is making it harder for working class people (primarily black) to stay in the city. So, as they say, "just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you."

Right. So we should now start to GIVE these people more of our tax dollars to allow them to stay in the city? We should subsidize everything in this country. The neighborhood is getting better and wealthier and all of a sudden its the white person's fault. Look there are old white people in Ward 3 that can't keep up with the pace of prop taxes in their neighborhood as well. GET OVER IT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not to put too fine a point on it, but not every Gray supporter believes in The Plan. But *every* believer in The Plan is a Gray supporter. This is in part because Gray has explicitly made an appeal to these folks.

I would think that an "Plan" true believers would suspect Gray is part of the conspiracy and, hence, support one fringe candidate or another. Regardless, for a long time it's been clear that the most racially divisive individuals are anti-Gray and intent on scaring the crap out of White voters.

Here, let me remove my imperial wizard hood for just one second, and drop a little bit of knowledge on you. You'll have to go to Act II, though the whole show is definitely worth listening to:

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/350/human-resources

The Plan actually quite a popular belief in the urban black community, and not particularly controversial.

NP here. I've heard that piece and know people who were interviewed for it, who felt that the producers twisted their words. I lost respect for Ira Glass after I heard that show.

That said, I do think there are people out there who mistakenly believe in this conspiracy as if all white people are coordinating a carefully crafted plan to move black folks out. They're nuts of course. On the other hand, it can't be denied that gentrification is making it harder for working class people (primarily black) to stay in the city. So, as they say, "just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you."

What's making it hard to stay in the city is that the city is becoming more attractive to middle- and upper-middle-class folks. Has nothing to do with black, white, etc... Displacement is obviously negative for those affected, but it's a naturally occurring phenomenon, not a plan. There's no intention behind it.

Let's face it, the overwhelming number of long-term middle-class black residents *do* stay if they want to. Housing costs aren't an issue, because the overwhelming majority of middle-class are homeowners. But many choose not to. They cash out and move to the suburbs or out of the area (for instance, Atlanta has had a huge net migration from DC). There's a huge transfer of wealth from middle-class newcomers to emigrating middle-class oldtimers.

The folks who've lost out are the urban poor, but for the most part, but there's no way that demand can be met by things like inclusionary zoning and other affordable housing schemes. There's just too much demand. DC does a heck of a lot better than the surrounding municipalities at providing housing for the very poor, but unless we're willing to say, "Freeze!" and decree that everyone living in DC currently gets to live here, and no one else may move in, displacement will continue apace.

And, yes, PP we should give these people tax dollars to allow them to stay in the city--but to no more greater or lesser extent than any other regional municipality. One of the things that's been killing Washington, DC and urban cores in general is that we, as a society, have decided that cities are for poor people and suburbs are for folks with money. It just doesn't work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The folks who've lost out are the urban poor, but for the most part, but there's no way that demand can be met by things like inclusionary zoning and other affordable housing schemes. There's just too much demand. DC does a heck of a lot better than the surrounding municipalities at providing housing for the very poor, but unless we're willing to say, "Freeze!" and decree that everyone living in DC currently gets to live here, and no one else may move in, displacement will continue apace.

Maybe the full demand can't be met but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be a whole lot more of it. As far as I can see, it hasn't been effectively tried in DC.

[Anonymous]

Hasn't been tried? What do you think DC's 30 year experiment in rent control has been? DC has by far the most stringent rent control laws of any local jurisdiction. And there is not a lack of affordable housing in DC. It just may not be in the neighborhood that you would prefer to live in. There are far too many renters (and tenant advocates) in DC who believe in the proposition that renters should have some inalienable right to live in the neighborhood of their choice at the price they want to pay for as long as they want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hasn't been tried? What do you think DC's 30 year experiment in rent control has been? DC has by far the most stringent rent control laws of any local jurisdiction. And there is not a lack of affordable housing in DC. It just may not be in the neighborhood that you would prefer to live in. There are far too many renters (and tenant advocates) in DC who believe in the proposition that renters should have some inalienable right to live in the neighborhood of their choice at the price they want to pay for as long as they want.

PP, rent control is not inclusionary zoning. Look it up and take a deep breath and think before you respond.

[Anonymous]

There are people in this country and especially parts of this city that have been taught to expect everything in life from the government. It is a dangerous mentality and is ultimately leading us down the road to bankruptcy. The entitlement mentality of this city is astounding. People who believe they have some god given right to own a home, people who belive they should be given income and that they can have as many children as they want without any consequence. I believe that even many liberals would agree that the District is a perfect example of what happens when that entitlement mentality spreads through the government and is part of the fabric of the community. You get: unecessarily high taxes, high user fees, untamed budgets, high crime, low productivity, little to no entrepreneurship etc. When you take the basic competitive edge away from people they lose the drive to achieve and eventually succeed. Why should they? After all it will be given to them for free. Instead of a level playing field end the game all together and just make everyone celebrate second place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because people who think Rhee is the savior of the school system are generally people who do not have kids currently in DCPS. We are DC residents, white, upper income. No school age kids. We polled three other similarly situated couples as to who they will vote for. They all have kids under the age of five, so have not yet had contact with DCPS. They all cited Rhee as the reason they are voting for Fenty, with the stated hopes that by the time their kids are ready for middle and high school, they might consider DCPS as an option. DH and I found that fascinating. We are agnostic on Rhee, like Cathy Lanier, but have had personal experiences with the Skinner/Karim shakedown of the DC commercial real estate industry---and that is why we will not vote for Fenty again. That, plus we know several people who worked for Williams who have nothing good to say about Fenty.

Not my experience. I think it's more nuanced than this. I know many, many parents of current DCPS students who are big Rhee fans. In my (admittedly anecdotal) experience, the parents who hate Rhee are those who think that--for whatever DCPS' reputation in general--their schools are doing just fine, thank you very much. Almost every parent I've met who believes that the system is on the cusp of becoming decent--but whatever gains are fragile--is at least Rhee-agnostic.

Obviously, most of the charter parents hate her because they've already left the system, and any gains in publics come at the expense of charters.

Not true. The charters are a larger portion of the public school population this year than they have ever been and they're continuing to grow. Last year they were up to 38% of all public school students and the demand still far outstrips the supply. And why wouldn't it? Charter academic scores continue to increase in opposition to those at DCPS.

[Anonymous]

Is there a transcript somewhere of "the plan" or perhaps some kind of drawings in cave dwellings? Anything that doesn't involve having to listen to an entire radio show just to hear the remarks germane to this thread?

I really hate podcasts and audio files. I'm not a luddite, I just don't want to invest THAT MUCH TIME in something that's only going to be worth an eye roll.