NCAP Burke- input appreciated

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP: One thing I have noticed this year is that we have quite a few transfers into our Gold I, Silver I, and Bronze I groups, including at least three AAA to Trials-qualifier Makos into the Gold I group. I suspect NCAP-West may also see this same pattern (high level transfers into the top groups). So, to answer the question about difficulty transferring in, I imagine it is far easier if the swimmer is similar to those already in the high performance groups. And there always seems to be enough room in the level II groups *except* for Bronze II PM.

We transferred into Bronze I this year with no issues. We were moving from out of the area and had tried out the team and met coaches before the move. DS is 12 and has multiple AA, AAA and one AAAA time. At our parent meeting Jake indicated the group count take 1-2 talented and motivated swimmers. Seems like a nice group of kids, a little heavy on the boys. They have a great relationship with the coaches and sometimes the 12 yr olds cross train with the Silver 1.

[Anonymous]

Having observed the Bronze 1/2 groups today at War at the WARF NCAP meet, the NCAP-West swimmers have made tremendously bigger gains than the NCAP-Burke kids. Like dropping 20 seconds in a 200 and basically owning the 9-10 200 Free event. Not even close. Even NCAP West 9 year olds were schooling the NCAP-Burke kids. Again, they competed this same meet last year, so the one difference was particularly striking when most of them started in a similar place last September.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Having observed the Bronze 1/2 groups today at War at the WARF NCAP meet, the NCAP-West swimmers have made tremendously bigger gains than the NCAP-Burke kids. Like dropping 20 seconds in a 200 and basically owning the 9-10 200 Free event. Not even close. Even NCAP West 9 year olds were schooling the NCAP-Burke kids. Again, they competed this same meet last year, so the one difference was particularly striking when most of them started in a similar place last September.

PP: It looks like the NCAP-West kids practice twice as much per week as the same-age NCAP-Burke kids. It seems to even up once the kids are 11/12 and up. Take this for what it’s worth.

[Anonymous]

NCAP West’s 11-12 girls were completely dominant. 11 of the top 15 in the 200 free were West and 9 of the top 15 in the 50 free were West.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NCAP West’s 11-12 girls were completely dominant. 11 of the top 15 in the 200 free were West and 9 of the top 15 in the 50 free were West.

We are an NCAP-Burke family and I was floored. My child was faster than all of the same-aged West girls last year and the year before (in the longer distances and a few strokes), but they have made great gains and surpassed her based on today’s one meet. It made me curious. Our kids do not move to five days/week (1.25-1.5 hours/practice) until age 11. Our best 9-10 year olds are not permitted to swim more than 3 hours/week. But I see that the best 9-10 West swimmers seem to swim 1.5 hours three days per week plus an extra 1 hour two days per week, totaling 6.5 hours/week versus the Burke 3 hours. This would necessarily put them ahead of most Burke swimmers even into the 11/12 years until things even out. I think the high-performing 9-10 swimmers at Machine practice similar hours/week. I am genuinely curious what the right way is. Is NCAP-Burke disservicing their HP 9-10 swimmers by limiting the swims to 3 hours/week, or is this the right choice in the long run? In any event, it is disheartening to see children like mine who start at the same place (or significantly more advanced, technique-wise) but get passed (at least in terms of speed, as I haven’t studied technique side-by-side) within a year or two. It is difficult not to wonder if coaching and/or time in water makes those differences. I know NCAP-West age group coaches are excellent. Would love your opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NCAP West’s 11-12 girls were completely dominant. 11 of the top 15 in the 200 free were West and 9 of the top 15 in the 50 free were West.

We are an NCAP-Burke family and I was floored. My child was faster than all of the same-aged West girls last year and the year before (in the longer distances and a few strokes), but they have made great gains and surpassed her based on today’s one meet. It made me curious. Our kids do not move to five days/week (1.25-1.5 hours/practice) until age 11. Our best 9-10 year olds are not permitted to swim more than 3 hours/week. But I see that the best 9-10 West swimmers seem to swim 1.5 hours three days per week plus an extra 1 hour two days per week, totaling 6.5 hours/week versus the Burke 3 hours. This would necessarily put them ahead of most Burke swimmers even into the 11/12 years until things even out. I think the high-performing 9-10 swimmers at Machine practice similar hours/week. I am genuinely curious what the right way is. Is NCAP-Burke disservicing their HP 9-10 swimmers by limiting the swims to 3 hours/week, or is this the right choice in the long run? In any event, it is disheartening to see children like mine who start at the same place (or significantly more advanced, technique-wise) but get passed (at least in terms of speed, as I haven’t studied technique side-by-side) within a year or two. It is difficult not to wonder if coaching and/or time in water makes those differences. I know NCAP-West age group coaches are excellent. Would love your opinion.

ETA: My kids are beyond the 9-10 stage, but it has made we wonder if the current model is the right one or if the team needs to consider other options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NCAP West’s 11-12 girls were completely dominant. 11 of the top 15 in the 200 free were West and 9 of the top 15 in the 50 free were West.

We are an NCAP-Burke family and I was floored. My child was faster than all of the same-aged West girls last year and the year before (in the longer distances and a few strokes), but they have made great gains and surpassed her based on today’s one meet. It made me curious. Our kids do not move to five days/week (1.25-1.5 hours/practice) until age 11. Our best 9-10 year olds are not permitted to swim more than 3 hours/week. But I see that the best 9-10 West swimmers seem to swim 1.5 hours three days per week plus an extra 1 hour two days per week, totaling 6.5 hours/week versus the Burke 3 hours. This would necessarily put them ahead of most Burke swimmers even into the 11/12 years until things even out. I think the high-performing 9-10 swimmers at Machine practice similar hours/week. I am genuinely curious what the right way is. Is NCAP-Burke disservicing their HP 9-10 swimmers by limiting the swims to 3 hours/week, or is this the right choice in the long run? In any event, it is disheartening to see children like mine who start at the same place (or significantly more advanced, technique-wise) but get passed (at least in terms of speed, as I haven’t studied technique side-by-side) within a year or two. It is difficult not to wonder if coaching and/or time in water makes those differences. I know NCAP-West age group coaches are excellent. Would love your opinion.

West offers more practices for their Bronze 2 group (where the advanced 9-10s are) but based on our experience they aren’t necessarily attending every practice offered. When my swimmer was in that group at age 10 they usually went to 4 practices a week, so probably had about 4-4.5 hours per week in the water at that age. The Bronze 1 group (where the more advanced 11-12 year olds are) is where you see more kids attending 5-6 practices a week and getting 7-8 hours in the water per week. The girls that were at the top of the 200 free are 12, so they have already had a full year of that level of training under their belts. Those girls are actually just really good too. Some of them did not start year round swim until they were in the 9-10 age group, so I don’t know that what is happening at 9-10 is the difference maker, I think it’s more the step up in training at 11. The same group will likely be the top of the 200IM tomorrow too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NCAP West’s 11-12 girls were completely dominant. 11 of the top 15 in the 200 free were West and 9 of the top 15 in the 50 free were West.

We are an NCAP-Burke family and I was floored. My child was faster than all of the same-aged West girls last year and the year before (in the longer distances and a few strokes), but they have made great gains and surpassed her based on today’s one meet. It made me curious. Our kids do not move to five days/week (1.25-1.5 hours/practice) until age 11. Our best 9-10 year olds are not permitted to swim more than 3 hours/week. But I see that the best 9-10 West swimmers seem to swim 1.5 hours three days per week plus an extra 1 hour two days per week, totaling 6.5 hours/week versus the Burke 3 hours. This would necessarily put them ahead of most Burke swimmers even into the 11/12 years until things even out. I think the high-performing 9-10 swimmers at Machine practice similar hours/week. I am genuinely curious what the right way is. Is NCAP-Burke disservicing their HP 9-10 swimmers by limiting the swims to 3 hours/week, or is this the right choice in the long run? In any event, it is disheartening to see children like mine who start at the same place (or significantly more advanced, technique-wise) but get passed (at least in terms of speed, as I haven’t studied technique side-by-side) within a year or two. It is difficult not to wonder if coaching and/or time in water makes those differences. I know NCAP-West age group coaches are excellent. Would love your opinion.

West offers more practices for their Bronze 2 group (where the advanced 9-10s are) but based on our experience they aren’t necessarily attending every practice offered. When my swimmer was in that group at age 10 they usually went to 4 practices a week, so probably had about 4-4.5 hours per week in the water at that age. The Bronze 1 group (where the more advanced 11-12 year olds are) is where you see more kids attending 5-6 practices a week and getting 7-8 hours in the water per week. The girls that were at the top of the 200 free are 12, so they have already had a full year of that level of training under their belts. Those girls are actually just really good too. Some of them did not start year round swim until they were in the 9-10 age group, so I don’t know that what is happening at 9-10 is the difference maker, I think it’s more the step up in training at 11. The same group will likely be the top of the 200IM tomorrow too.

The last names of the top 11-12 swimmers largely match the last names of the 9-10 swimmers. Still, if you look at the kids who started at the same time (and were more or less similar in the younger years) across the various VA NCAP sites, the West kids have made substantially bigger gains. Applause to all involved, since it seems their is a formula for both success and joy across each program level.