Dropping down level in math

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for the replies this far.

Junior, AP Calc AB. He did on level PreCalc last year and found it very easy. He was recommended for AP but after two bad quizzes I guess he should have signed up Calc with Applications.

Wow. Last year was already a yellow flag - taking an on-level class but 2 years ahead of on-level. You should have dropped back to honors version of +1 track last year or the year before.

Transfer to honors precalc credit replacement or Calc with Apps, and study to fill in the gaps if you want to get back on STEM track with AP Calc next year, or do stats next year for social science / humanities college.

You must not be in MCPS. This is a very typical track for MCPS students and many of them might have been in Alg. Honors or Geo. Honors but drop to regular in Alg. 2 or Precal. Very, very common.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for the replies this far.

Junior, AP Calc AB. He did on level PreCalc last year and found it very easy. He was recommended for AP but after two bad quizzes I guess he should have signed up Calc with Applications.

Wow. Last year was already a yellow flag - taking an on-level class but 2 years ahead of on-level. You should have dropped back to honors version of +1 track last year or the year before.

Transfer to honors precalc credit replacement or Calc with Apps, and study to fill in the gaps if you want to get back on STEM track with AP Calc next year, or do stats next year for social science / humanities college.

You must not be in MCPS. This is a very typical track for MCPS students and many of them might have been in Alg. Honors or Geo. Honors but drop to regular in Alg. 2 or Precal. Very, very common.

+1
My kids did this and were fine in AP Calc AB.

[Anonymous]

I think PP’a suggestion of taking honors precalc is a good one. Or take calc with applications and then AB next year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for the replies this far.

Junior, AP Calc AB. He did on level PreCalc last year and found it very easy. He was recommended for AP but after two bad quizzes I guess he should have signed up Calc with Applications.

Wow. Last year was already a yellow flag - taking an on-level class but 2 years ahead of on-level. You should have dropped back to honors version of +1 track last year or the year before.

Transfer to honors precalc credit replacement or Calc with Apps, and study to fill in the gaps if you want to get back on STEM track with AP Calc next year, or do stats next year for social science / humanities college.

You must not be in MCPS. This is a very typical track for MCPS students and many of them might have been in Alg. Honors or Geo. Honors but drop to regular in Alg. 2 or Precal. Very, very common.

Very common for students who took Geometry in 8th grade? Why are these students rushing ahead in math, to collapse so quickly?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can you tell in the first 2 weeks? Did they have tests already?

NP. My kid in MCPS had his first precalc test on Friday. It's been graded already.

We are two calc quizzes in and I can tell it's going to be a struggle

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for the replies this far.

Junior, AP Calc AB. He did on level PreCalc last year and found it very easy. He was recommended for AP but after two bad quizzes I guess he should have signed up Calc with Applications.

Wow. Last year was already a yellow flag - taking an on-level class but 2 years ahead of on-level. You should have dropped back to honors version of +1 track last year or the year before.

Transfer to honors precalc credit replacement or Calc with Apps, and study to fill in the gaps if you want to get back on STEM track with AP Calc next year, or do stats next year for social science / humanities college.

You must not be in MCPS. This is a very typical track for MCPS students and many of them might have been in Alg. Honors or Geo. Honors but drop to regular in Alg. 2 or Precal. Very, very common.

Very common for students who took Geometry in 8th grade? Why are these students rushing ahead in math, to collapse so quickly?

Do you have a younger child? Not getting what your problem is.
At our DC's "W" cluster middle school 3/4 of the kids took compacted math in ES which put them on track to do Pre-algebra (IM) in 6th, Alg I in 7th and Geometry in 8th. These decisions were made when the kids were in 3rd grade and this is not a track that was considered "rushing ahead." It was just the normal track at that school.

At some middle schools, including DC's, almost all sections of math are honors so they don't really have a choice and most kids do fine in this track.

Alg. 2 or Precal is when things start to become a lot more abstract so a big chunk of kids drop down to regular/non-honors math. This is also high school so the kids may have decided math is not their priority and they want to concentrate more on their science classes or history or art classes. Lots of reasons why kids in HS make course decisions and a lot of them have nothing to do with them experiencing a "collapse."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for the replies this far.

Junior, AP Calc AB. He did on level PreCalc last year and found it very easy. He was recommended for AP but after two bad quizzes I guess he should have signed up Calc with Applications.

Wow. Last year was already a yellow flag - taking an on-level class but 2 years ahead of on-level. You should have dropped back to honors version of +1 track last year or the year before.

Transfer to honors precalc credit replacement or Calc with Apps, and study to fill in the gaps if you want to get back on STEM track with AP Calc next year, or do stats next year for social science / humanities college.

You must not be in MCPS. This is a very typical track for MCPS students and many of them might have been in Alg. Honors or Geo. Honors but drop to regular in Alg. 2 or Precal. Very, very common.

+1 it happened for both my kids at Whitman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for the replies this far.

Junior, AP Calc AB. He did on level PreCalc last year and found it very easy. He was recommended for AP but after two bad quizzes I guess he should have signed up Calc with Applications.

OP - ignore all the other chatter. Dropping back to Calc with Applications is perfectly fine. Generally, students have until interims to change level, but the sooner the better. Also, a level switch the first month of school is very common.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for the replies this far.

Junior, AP Calc AB. He did on level PreCalc last year and found it very easy. He was recommended for AP but after two bad quizzes I guess he should have signed up Calc with Applications.

Wow. Last year was already a yellow flag - taking an on-level class but 2 years ahead of on-level. You should have dropped back to honors version of +1 track last year or the year before.

Transfer to honors precalc credit replacement or Calc with Apps, and study to fill in the gaps if you want to get back on STEM track with AP Calc next year, or do stats next year for social science / humanities college.

You must not be in MCPS. This is a very typical track for MCPS students and many of them might have been in Alg. Honors or Geo. Honors but drop to regular in Alg. 2 or Precal. Very, very common.

Very common for students who took Geometry in 8th grade? Why are these students rushing ahead in math, to collapse so quickly?

Because everybody else is doing it. There are kids taking Algebra 2 in 8th grade. They are not geniuses and often have significant gaps in knowledge. But once you let one kid in, you are not going to stop the next one or the one after that...

[Anonymous]

I don't think this is very uncommon. Being an excellent math student when you are 8 and put in compacted is not the same as having the skills for pre-calculus in 10th grade. My oldest went from honors to on level for pre-calc and then took Calculus with Applications and AP Stats. My youngest is an 8th grader in geometry now and will likely need to drop down at some point in high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think this is very uncommon. Being an excellent math student when you are 8 and put in compacted is not the same as having the skills for pre-calculus in 10th grade. My oldest went from honors to on level for pre-calc and then took Calculus with Applications and AP Stats. My youngest is an 8th grader in geometry now and will likely need to drop down at some point in high school.

What's the point of it, though? What value does Calc with Apps offer versus a more thorough study (starting a year later) of Honors Algebra 2 and Honors Precalculus?

How does accelerating into Calc with Apps help with college?

[Anonymous]

Starting a year letter would have made sense in retrospect, but there are limited off ramps once you start in that 2 years accelerated compacted math track. One of them is going from honors to on level at algebra 2 or pre calculus. What made sense for my kid in 4th grade was not the same as what made sense in 10th..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Starting a year letter would have made sense in retrospect, but there are limited off ramps once you start in that 2 years accelerated compacted math track. One of them is going from honors to on level at algebra 2 or pre calculus. What made sense for my kid in 4th grade was not the same as what made sense in 10th..

I think MCPS is now realizing this and is slowing down the curriculum for many kids. The standards for getting into compacted math have tightened quite a bit, and again to move into AIM/7+ in 6th grade. So moving forward, this may not be as much of an issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Starting a year letter would have made sense in retrospect, but there are limited off ramps once you start in that 2 years accelerated compacted math track. One of them is going from honors to on level at algebra 2 or pre calculus. What made sense for my kid in 4th grade was not the same as what made sense in 10th..

Slowing down is not going to help, either. The kids need more challenging problems at every level, or to be separated within the same level, like they do at RSM. Honors classes are a good idea, when they are allowed to work as intended.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Starting a year letter would have made sense in retrospect, but there are limited off ramps once you start in that 2 years accelerated compacted math track. One of them is going from honors to on level at algebra 2 or pre calculus. What made sense for my kid in 4th grade was not the same as what made sense in 10th..

Slowing down is not going to help, either. The kids need more challenging problems at every level, or to be separated within the same level, like they do at RSM. Honors classes are a good idea, when they are allowed to work as intended.

Every level at RSM goes at a faster pace and much greater depth than even the most advanced MCPS classes. It's an expensive private program with smaller classes (no more than 15 kids) and very motivated parents/students. That is not something MCPS is going to be able to offer.

I think the better option is to offer deeper enrichment within the grade-level standards for students who really aren't ready for the acceleration that MCPS offers. Students who aren't going to be well-served by starting in compacted math in 4th should have the option of an enriched 4th grade math class that goes beyond the Eureka materials with real enrichment. When I asked at our school what enrichment was offered, they said it was just the later problems in the Eureka problem set--but those are not adequate for kids who need to go deeper.

MCPS's answer right now is to simply accelerate kids, but that's not serving them, as we are seeing with students who in HS need to drop down from honors to regular because they can't keep pace. Something needs to change.