Rant about "research" and "internships"

[Anonymous]

I also know some high school kids that got federal internships. They were all as described, the school advertised, the kids applied with the government, and they did real work the agency provided. No publications or research. I would also be skeptical of that. At least one learned that 8-5 in the same office day after day might not be for him.

[Anonymous]

As an AO I would be more put off by these students trying to land corporate experiences or research than those actually being a teen and doing teen things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A kid in my neighborhood did summer research with a college professor in Maryland after her mom paid the professor $$$$. The kid did well, published a paper, and won an award at the prestigious ISEF. Now she is in a Top 10 university. I bet AOs know the authenticity of these "EC/Research/Internships", but they don't care. It's common practice these days and people share information and resources like this all the time, even on DCUM.

The payment is common in higher Ed; no one’s paying coaches anymore. They are paying professors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep hearing about HS kids doing "research" and getting "internships" to get into top colleges. What does this actually mean? Besides securing a spot through connections, I find it hard to grasp how a high schooler could provide value to a professor etc who is doing meaningful work. My friend's child "interned" this past summer, but all he did was clean the space. How is it that these kids are becoming coauthors on research papers? Especially since many, many STEM subjects are math-heavy, difficult to grasp, and require an insane amount of background knowledge?! Even if the kid is intelligent enough to understand the basic subject material, isn't it a liability for them to handle expensive materials/equipment?

The title was sort of clickbait. I'm genuinely curious.

A lot of this is just myth. You hear about the one or two phenoms, but it's not commonplace.

Not really. Have you read the applications on AdmitYogi?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all the shortcomings of DCPS, they do have some unique programs...one of which is that kids are nearly guaranteed summer internships if they are part of certain DCPS programs.

I know many have interned at NIH and Children's Hospital through a DCPS program, and then there are other kids securing internships at Accenture and lots of other companies that participate through other DCPS programs.

None of these come through family connections and DC subsidizes payment. Some of the internships are nothing, but I am told the NIH internships are reasonably interesting and it's usually kids who plan on premed majors.

yes, my rising senior did a tech internship through DCPS this summer. It was an incredibly well-run, interesting experience (and actually helped her decide that she doesn't want to pursue a major in tech). It was paid through DC government funds.

Other internships that are legit are:
-Federal government. My kid applied to about 40 of these and received one in a large federal agency downtown. She ended up turning it down for the DCPS opportunity.
-Some universities have legit, highly competitive programs for both interns and researchers.

My kid goes to a Baltimore City public school, and BCPS has a similar arrangement (paid summer internships which are competitive to get) with Hopkins. My kid had a great experience this past summer, though definitely no "research" paper coming out of it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For all the shortcomings of DCPS, they do have some unique programs...one of which is that kids are nearly guaranteed summer internships if they are part of certain DCPS programs.

I know many have interned at NIH and Children's Hospital through a DCPS program, and then there are other kids securing internships at Accenture and lots of other companies that participate through other DCPS programs.

None of these come through family connections and DC subsidizes payment. Some of the internships are nothing, but I am told the NIH internships are reasonably interesting and it's usually kids who plan on premed majors.

So it seems DCPS are working hard to ensure their best and brightest gain experiences that will help send them to college. Which is a good thing, considering most in DCPS do not have a privileged upbringing or parents with connections or possibly even the personal knowledge to assist with the college process and beyond.
Sounds like an amazing program and I'm glad those kids get the opportunities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A kid in my neighborhood did summer research with a college professor in Maryland after her mom paid the professor $$$$. The kid did well, published a paper, and won an award at the prestigious ISEF. Now she is in a Top 10 university. I bet AOs know the authenticity of these "EC/Research/Internships", but they don't care. It's common practice these days and people share information and resources like this all the time, even on DCUM.

Right. Here's the thing. It doesn't matter if the research is fake or if it's not the kid's own research.

The Science Fairs and the Schools benefit their reputation by pretending it is real research.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not a thing.

There are some universities that have established programs to give these opportunities to high school students, but those are structured, competitive, and clearly established program. There are also high schools that have connections with certain places for internships (MCPS + NIH or UMD, for example). It really is not a thing that a kid can send an email to a prof, get hired, get their name included on papers (which take YEARS to get published...they'd have to get their name on it in 8th grade to make it to publication in time for college applications) and get into college this way.

Couple of reasons:
- there are so many college students competing for these things
- grants don't work like this; you can't just use a random high schooler for research or work
- liability
- no one unaffiliated with a university is going to get hired for a student worker job many of which are federal work study or open to certain types of enrolled students

If someone has a dad there and just tags along and helps clean lab equipment and gets SSL hours or writes about the experience and enriching conversation, maybe. Maybe. But it's not a job. And if someone tells you it is they are either in one of these programs or they are embellishing a glorified take your kid to work day.

There are pay to publish journals (including student journals that don't pretend to be real research journals) that will publish in 3 months or less.

Think of it more like "getting published in poetry magazine" than "published in Nature"

[Anonymous]

Our rising HS Junior had a paid, summer internship with a local government. While it was “grunt” work (mostly putting as-built info into a spreadsheet for review by a staff engineer before being uploaded to GIS), DC was allowed to observe staff and project review meetings and went on a few “field” trips to other departments. It really gave a great overview of local government functions and DC learned a lot. DC has also already been asked to reapply next year.

So, “research”? No. But a good win-win for all involved and will definitely go on DC’s resume/application.

On the other side, at my work, we have also had one HS summer intern who did some slick coding that vastly sped up a tedious process and is still in production today. Most of our other summer interns have been college kids and we’ve been pleased with their work too. The real key is having a staffer with the proper teaching/mentoring mindset and an ideal project for them to work on (short in duration, easy/moderate in complexity). Only one has been a “family” connection; the others were advertised for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not a thing.

There are some universities that have established programs to give these opportunities to high school students, but those are structured, competitive, and clearly established program. There are also high schools that have connections with certain places for internships (MCPS + NIH or UMD, for example). It really is not a thing that a kid can send an email to a prof, get hired, get their name included on papers (which take YEARS to get published...they'd have to get their name on it in 8th grade to make it to publication in time for college applications) and get into college this way.

Couple of reasons:
- there are so many college students competing for these things
- grants don't work like this; you can't just use a random high schooler for research or work
- liability
- no one unaffiliated with a university is going to get hired for a student worker job many of which are federal work study or open to certain types of enrolled students

If someone has a dad there and just tags along and helps clean lab equipment and gets SSL hours or writes about the experience and enriching conversation, maybe. Maybe. But it's not a job. And if someone tells you it is they are either in one of these programs or they are embellishing a glorified take your kid to work day.

Regarding the competitive remark - these programs may be competitive in terms of selectivity, but apparently not in terns of required follow-through.

DC was part of a cohort at a major research university this past year (research dollars in the Top 5 across the country, for perspective), probably got a leg up due to their mother's spidery connections throughout the ivory tower, but was appalled at the low level of commitment demonstrated by others in their cohort. At a poster presentation late in the program, it was clear that DC wasn't just complaining to be a complainer. One poster looked grad student (maybe post-doc) quality, and the rest looked like they were developed by feral cats.

[Anonymous]

My kid did a "real" internship this summer in NYC at a nonprofit - wrote an application, interviewed, got paid - but the work itself was just basic work. He would have gotten just as much out of working the counter at Chipotle or a summer camp or whatever.

[Anonymous]

I did research in a lab the summer before I started college and had it published. I don't think it was anything I couldn't have done as a rising senior in high school, except I didn't have the opportunity sooner. My gig was set up my the honors program at my university, not via connections.

For my project, the professor had an idea. He told the grad student the idea and assigned him to supervise me. The grad student taught me the techniques and trained me on the instruments. Then I spent all summer running reactions, taking scans and recording my observations. I ended up with good data. The professor was the corresponding author on the publication. The PI gave me the first author spot since it was all my data and plots. The grad student was the second author.

I think there are many projects where a smart high schooler can be trained to be a pair of hands. They likely aren't the one with the big idea, but that's okay. Everyone starts somewhere and they likely still learned a ton just being there and working on a project, even if not the thought leader.

[Anonymous]

At a Federal R&D STEM environment, paid summer interns sometimes are included in a paper's author list if they did non-trivial work on the project. I cannot think of any example where the intern was first or second author in the list, but I can think of papers where they were 4th name listed. And those were not cases where they merely washed beakers...

It is possible, but it does not happen with most interns.

[Anonymous]

I separate the two: many internships can be real/valuable.

As for research, money almost always changes hands and the credential is purchased. The key example of this is hiring Crimson to help your kid. They are a venture backed, for profit college consulting firm that has international offices. They have these gigs all lined up (for a hefty fee, of course) and the kid just slots on the team. Doesn’t do much. Voila! Research.

I am overseas. They have this one guy in a local FB parents forums who posts as if he is a parent. He just has this great idea for you! I think they are popping up everywhere. It’s so gross.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For all the shortcomings of DCPS, they do have some unique programs...one of which is that kids are nearly guaranteed summer internships if they are part of certain DCPS programs.

I know many have interned at NIH and Children's Hospital through a DCPS program, and then there are other kids securing internships at Accenture and lots of other companies that participate through other DCPS programs.

None of these come through family connections and DC subsidizes payment. Some of the internships are nothing, but I am told the NIH internships are reasonably interesting and it's usually kids who plan on premed majors.

Agree. I personally know a DCPS/PCS teen who is interning at Georgetown University doing actual IT work. Low level, yes, but kid is not pushing around a broom and didnt get the position via daddy.