CES to Criteria-Based Middle School Magnet

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does MCPS locally norm test results for the middle school magnets similar to CES?

yes they do

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does MCPS locally norm test results for the middle school magnets similar to CES?

Yes. Not sure whether it’s identical, but the principle is the same for both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Since it's a lottery, completely random.

it's random but every school gets a handful of kids selected for each program. It's not like 5 schools will get 30 kids and one school won't have any selected in the lottery (if assuming 5 per school).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How are there more spots in CES than MS magnets?? Regionally, it's the same pool of kids. There are around 130 spots each in both the Humanities and TPMS programs.

Here's something for thought -- if the 60 or so kids in any respective CES all qualify for the MS criteria-based lottery, which they all probably need the program instructionally, but only 3-4 spots are offered per school, they probably have a better shot at those spots by staying at their home school and doing ELC than being in a super competitive already magnet pool in 5th grade.

As for the first question, there are absolutely more slots in CES than in the MS magnets. TPMS and Eastern pull from the following:
Bethesda-Chevy Chase
Winston Churchill
Walter Johnson
Richard Montgomery
Rockville
Sherwood
Walt Whitman
Thomas S. Wootton
Downcounty Consortium.
Northeast Consortium

The CES programs that serve those are:
Barnsley - 50
Chevy Chase - 50
Cold Spring - 50
Oak View -50
Pine Crest 50
Piney Branch - 25
Stonegate - 25

So that's 300 (give or take) CES graduates per year competing for about 200 MS slots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many kids from 5th grade CES end up getting selected for the criteria based middle school programs (humanities and math/science)? It seems like it's not a lot of kids from my anecdotal references, which makes me think it's better to wait for the middle school magnet than opting for CES, especially for kids considering the humanities magnet since CES is more similar to that. Thoughts? Experiences?

You can wait for the MS magnet, but most kids don’t get in. I know at least 20 kids who qualified and only one spot offered to them. It’s great if it happens but it isn’t likely for any single kid.

Depends on the magnet. Everyone I know who was in the pool at Eastern eventually got offered a spot last year

And, we know a bunch of kids who were in the lottery but didn't get a spot last year (current 7th grade). Don't know about this year.

Parent of current 6th grader here and we absolutely know kids still on the wait list for Eastern, who would take a spot if offered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are there more spots in CES than MS magnets?? Regionally, it's the same pool of kids. There are around 130 spots each in both the Humanities and TPMS programs.

Here's something for thought -- if the 60 or so kids in any respective CES all qualify for the MS criteria-based lottery, which they all probably need the program instructionally, but only 3-4 spots are offered per school, they probably have a better shot at those spots by staying at their home school and doing ELC than being in a super competitive already magnet pool in 5th grade.

As for the first question, there are absolutely more slots in CES than in the MS magnets. TPMS and Eastern pull from the following:
Bethesda-Chevy Chase
Winston Churchill
Walter Johnson
Richard Montgomery
Rockville
Sherwood
Walt Whitman
Thomas S. Wootton
Downcounty Consortium.
Northeast Consortium

The CES programs that serve those are:
Barnsley - 50
Chevy Chase - 50
Cold Spring - 50
Oak View -50
Pine Crest 50
Piney Branch - 25
Stonegate - 25

So that's 300 (give or take) CES graduates per year competing for about 200 MS slots.

You forgot Charles Drew and its 50 kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How are there more spots in CES than MS magnets?? Regionally, it's the same pool of kids. There are around 130 spots each in both the Humanities and TPMS programs.

Here's something for thought -- if the 60 or so kids in any respective CES all qualify for the MS criteria-based lottery, which they all probably need the program instructionally, but only 3-4 spots are offered per school, they probably have a better shot at those spots by staying at their home school and doing ELC than being in a super competitive already magnet pool in 5th grade.

Hi - just wanted to note the error in your hypothetical; for the middle school magnet pool, kids are grouped with their *home* (zoned) elementary. So for example, my kid who went to Oak View CES but was zoned for a different school was not "competing" so to speak with other OVES students, but with students form the home school. This actually worked to a disadvantage because the home school was in the lowest FARMs tier so that meant the MAP cut-off was about 93rd/94th percentile for the MS lottery pools. The kids in the OVES CES, for whom OVES was their zoned school, had a lower MAP cut-off due to the higher FARMS rate for that school.

And I used "competing" in quotes because to my knowledge, there is no elementary school quota for CES nor is there one for MS. Students with the required grades and MAP scores are all placed in the lottery pool and have equal chance to get pulled out at random for a spot in CES or a MS magnet. The only difference is that the MAP threshold will vary depending on the home school's FARMS rate, and I believe there is also consideration given to students in certain populations (e.g., IEPs?) but am not sure of the latter. as our kid wasn't one of those - they just made the lottery pool based on grades and MAP scores.

In sum, whether or not your child is in CES has no bearing on their later eligibility for a MS magnet. As a parent whose child did the CES program I wholeheartedly recommend it. It's not nearly the same as receiving ELA enrichment at the home school.

As far as the numbers go, while we know how many spots are at each CES and MS magnet program, I really have no idea of the typical size of the lottery pool from which either draws. I would guess and say there are "more spots" in CES only because they are regional programs and the 52-54 slots (or whatever) at OVES only drew from 6-8 elementary schools. Whereas TMPS and Eastern, while they have about 125 slots each, draw from the whole bottom half of the county - right? But I could be off; maybe someone with a better idea of the general overall pool number can do the math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are there more spots in CES than MS magnets?? Regionally, it's the same pool of kids. There are around 130 spots each in both the Humanities and TPMS programs.

Here's something for thought -- if the 60 or so kids in any respective CES all qualify for the MS criteria-based lottery, which they all probably need the program instructionally, but only 3-4 spots are offered per school, they probably have a better shot at those spots by staying at their home school and doing ELC than being in a super competitive already magnet pool in 5th grade.

Hi - just wanted to note the error in your hypothetical; for the middle school magnet pool, kids are grouped with their *home* (zoned) elementary. So for example, my kid who went to Oak View CES but was zoned for a different school was not "competing" so to speak with other OVES students, but with students form the home school. This actually worked to a disadvantage because the home school was in the lowest FARMs tier so that meant the MAP cut-off was about 93rd/94th percentile for the MS lottery pools. The kids in the OVES CES, for whom OVES was their zoned school, had a lower MAP cut-off due to the higher FARMS rate for that school.

And I used "competing" in quotes because to my knowledge, there is no elementary school quota for CES nor is there one for MS. Students with the required grades and MAP scores are all placed in the lottery pool and have equal chance to get pulled out at random for a spot in CES or a MS magnet. The only difference is that the MAP threshold will vary depending on the home school's FARMS rate, and I believe there is also consideration given to students in certain populations (e.g., IEPs?) but am not sure of the latter. as our kid wasn't one of those - they just made the lottery pool based on grades and MAP scores.

In sum, whether or not your child is in CES has no bearing on their later eligibility for a MS magnet. As a parent whose child did the CES program I wholeheartedly recommend it. It's not nearly the same as receiving ELA enrichment at the home school.

As far as the numbers go, while we know how many spots are at each CES and MS magnet program, I really have no idea of the typical size of the lottery pool from which either draws. I would guess and say there are "more spots" in CES only because they are regional programs and the 52-54 slots (or whatever) at OVES only drew from 6-8 elementary schools. Whereas TMPS and Eastern, while they have about 125 slots each, draw from the whole bottom half of the county - right? But I could be off; maybe someone with a better idea of the general overall pool number can do the math.

Thanks -- I'm the PP with the hypothetical. This is a helpful explanation. Is there documentation somewhere that explains that the CES kids are in fact grouped with their home school (and not the CES school) for MS lottery?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are there more spots in CES than MS magnets?? Regionally, it's the same pool of kids. There are around 130 spots each in both the Humanities and TPMS programs.

Here's something for thought -- if the 60 or so kids in any respective CES all qualify for the MS criteria-based lottery, which they all probably need the program instructionally, but only 3-4 spots are offered per school, they probably have a better shot at those spots by staying at their home school and doing ELC than being in a super competitive already magnet pool in 5th grade.

Hi - just wanted to note the error in your hypothetical; for the middle school magnet pool, kids are grouped with their *home* (zoned) elementary. So for example, my kid who went to Oak View CES but was zoned for a different school was not "competing" so to speak with other OVES students, but with students form the home school. This actually worked to a disadvantage because the home school was in the lowest FARMs tier so that meant the MAP cut-off was about 93rd/94th percentile for the MS lottery pools. The kids in the OVES CES, for whom OVES was their zoned school, had a lower MAP cut-off due to the higher FARMS rate for that school.

And I used "competing" in quotes because to my knowledge, there is no elementary school quota for CES nor is there one for MS. Students with the required grades and MAP scores are all placed in the lottery pool and have equal chance to get pulled out at random for a spot in CES or a MS magnet. The only difference is that the MAP threshold will vary depending on the home school's FARMS rate, and I believe there is also consideration given to students in certain populations (e.g., IEPs?) but am not sure of the latter. as our kid wasn't one of those - they just made the lottery pool based on grades and MAP scores.

In sum, whether or not your child is in CES has no bearing on their later eligibility for a MS magnet. As a parent whose child did the CES program I wholeheartedly recommend it. It's not nearly the same as receiving ELA enrichment at the home school.

As far as the numbers go, while we know how many spots are at each CES and MS magnet program, I really have no idea of the typical size of the lottery pool from which either draws. I would guess and say there are "more spots" in CES only because they are regional programs and the 52-54 slots (or whatever) at OVES only drew from 6-8 elementary schools. Whereas TMPS and Eastern, while they have about 125 slots each, draw from the whole bottom half of the county - right? But I could be off; maybe someone with a better idea of the general overall pool number can do the math.

Thanks -- I'm the PP with the hypothetical. This is a helpful explanation. Is there documentation somewhere that explains that the CES kids are in fact grouped with their home school (and not the CES school) for MS lottery?

Yes, because we had the same question; it's been a few years but I believe it's on somewhere on the general information page for the MCPS criteria-based magnet program. If I find it I will post on this thread.

[Anonymous]

From what I understand it’s less than a handful of kids per home ES per criteria-based MS program. The odds are low of getting a seat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How are there more spots in CES than MS magnets?? Regionally, it's the same pool of kids. There are around 130 spots each in both the Humanities and TPMS programs.

Here's something for thought -- if the 60 or so kids in any respective CES all qualify for the MS criteria-based lottery, which they all probably need the program instructionally, but only 3-4 spots are offered per school, they probably have a better shot at those spots by staying at their home school and doing ELC than being in a super competitive already magnet pool in 5th grade.

You need to do some research friend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are there more spots in CES than MS magnets?? Regionally, it's the same pool of kids. There are around 130 spots each in both the Humanities and TPMS programs.

Here's something for thought -- if the 60 or so kids in any respective CES all qualify for the MS criteria-based lottery, which they all probably need the program instructionally, but only 3-4 spots are offered per school, they probably have a better shot at those spots by staying at their home school and doing ELC than being in a super competitive already magnet pool in 5th grade.

Hi - just wanted to note the error in your hypothetical; for the middle school magnet pool, kids are grouped with their *home* (zoned) elementary. So for example, my kid who went to Oak View CES but was zoned for a different school was not "competing" so to speak with other OVES students, but with students form the home school. This actually worked to a disadvantage because the home school was in the lowest FARMs tier so that meant the MAP cut-off was about 93rd/94th percentile for the MS lottery pools. The kids in the OVES CES, for whom OVES was their zoned school, had a lower MAP cut-off due to the higher FARMS rate for that school.

And I used "competing" in quotes because to my knowledge, there is no elementary school quota for CES nor is there one for MS. Students with the required grades and MAP scores are all placed in the lottery pool and have equal chance to get pulled out at random for a spot in CES or a MS magnet. The only difference is that the MAP threshold will vary depending on the home school's FARMS rate, and I believe there is also consideration given to students in certain populations (e.g., IEPs?) but am not sure of the latter. as our kid wasn't one of those - they just made the lottery pool based on grades and MAP scores.

In sum, whether or not your child is in CES has no bearing on their later eligibility for a MS magnet. As a parent whose child did the CES program I wholeheartedly recommend it. It's not nearly the same as receiving ELA enrichment at the home school.

As far as the numbers go, while we know how many spots are at each CES and MS magnet program, I really have no idea of the typical size of the lottery pool from which either draws. I would guess and say there are "more spots" in CES only because they are regional programs and the 52-54 slots (or whatever) at OVES only drew from 6-8 elementary schools. Whereas TMPS and Eastern, while they have about 125 slots each, draw from the whole bottom half of the county - right? But I could be off; maybe someone with a better idea of the general overall pool number can do the math.

Thanks -- I'm the PP with the hypothetical. This is a helpful explanation. Is there documentation somewhere that explains that the CES kids are in fact grouped with their home school (and not the CES school) for MS lottery?

I think they clarified it after the first year. This year's seniors were the first cohort to go through universal screening and any sort of school-level quota, and the very first year they did compare the kids with their CES cohort rather than their home-school cohort. After they realized how badly this disadvantaged kids from high needs schools/families, they changed the approach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many kids from 5th grade CES end up getting selected for the criteria based middle school programs (humanities and math/science)? It seems like it's not a lot of kids from my anecdotal references, which makes me think it's better to wait for the middle school magnet than opting for CES, especially for kids considering the humanities magnet since CES is more similar to that. Thoughts? Experiences?

You can wait for the MS magnet, but most kids don’t get in. I know at least 20 kids who qualified and only one spot offered to them. It’s great if it happens but it isn’t likely for any single kid.

Depends on the magnet. Everyone I know who was in the pool at Eastern eventually got offered a spot last year

Well, that's great for the people you know, but my kid and some of her friends were on the WL and never got an offer. So you just happen to know the lucky ones. -DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How are there more spots in CES than MS magnets?? Regionally, it's the same pool of kids. There are around 130 spots each in both the Humanities and TPMS programs.

Here's something for thought -- if the 60 or so kids in any respective CES all qualify for the MS criteria-based lottery, which they all probably need the program instructionally, but only 3-4 spots are offered per school, they probably have a better shot at those spots by staying at their home school and doing ELC than being in a super competitive already magnet pool in 5th grade.

There are 84 spots in per year in the CCES magnet alone. There are more spots in the CES simply because MCPS has created more spots there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are there more spots in CES than MS magnets?? Regionally, it's the same pool of kids. There are around 130 spots each in both the Humanities and TPMS programs.

Here's something for thought -- if the 60 or so kids in any respective CES all qualify for the MS criteria-based lottery, which they all probably need the program instructionally, but only 3-4 spots are offered per school, they probably have a better shot at those spots by staying at their home school and doing ELC than being in a super competitive already magnet pool in 5th grade.

As for the first question, there are absolutely more slots in CES than in the MS magnets. TPMS and Eastern pull from the following:
Bethesda-Chevy Chase
Winston Churchill
Walter Johnson
Richard Montgomery
Rockville
Sherwood
Walt Whitman
Thomas S. Wootton
Downcounty Consortium.
Northeast Consortium

The CES programs that serve those are:
Barnsley - 50
Chevy Chase - 50
Cold Spring - 50
Oak View -50
Pine Crest 50
Piney Branch - 25
Stonegate - 25

So that's 300 (give or take) CES graduates per year competing for about 200 MS slots.

Chevy Chase has 3 classes I think with 28 each - so well more than 50.