Taking the long view

[Anonymous]

If aiming for a Top MBA, gpa has to be 3.6…
I’d go to the best undergrad possible. Because lots can happen to change the direction or choice of grad school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When choosing undergrad colleges with an eye toward law or graduate school, is it better to graduate at the bottom half of the most rigorous college, perform in the top half of a lower ranked college, or the very top of an even lower ranked college? Assuming these are all T100 and majors are the same. We don’t care as much about prestige as outcomes and ROI.

Top portion of a lower ranked college. What matters is LSAT scores and GPA. Where you went doesn't really come into play.

GPA from top college such as MIT will be compared the same level form low ranked college.

If this is true why do people chase prestige and rankings?

Because it's not true.

Every top law, business, and medical school is going to value a degree from MIT or Princeton over one from Oklahoma Panhandle State or Western Nevada College. And those here telling you otherwise haven't been involved with graduate school admissions since the 1890s.

Your LSAT, GMAT, and MCAT scores do matter a lot, however, no matter where you went to undergrad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When choosing undergrad colleges with an eye toward law or graduate school, is it better to graduate at the bottom half of the most rigorous college, perform in the top half of a lower ranked college, or the very top of an even lower ranked college? Assuming these are all T100 and majors are the same. We don’t care as much about prestige as outcomes and ROI.

It is better to be the top half or top third of an elite college on the phd med and law "feeder" lists. Within the feeder lists, some have slightly less competitive student cohorts than others (looking at median SAT scores from the pre-test optional years on prep scholar to get a proxy): stay within the top feeder lists and adjust "down" until you find schools that will likely lead to yours being in the top 1/2 at a minimum. For the true superstars, they will easily be top 25% at any school in the country, not common to be in that group.

No one in the recent years of the grad/prof schools DH and went to, both T5 different fields, came from below a T150 or so unless they were a hooked demographic, and most of those were from T75-150. Almost every white kid and asian kid is from their home-state flagship or from a T30/top LAC, excluding internationals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When choosing undergrad colleges with an eye toward law or graduate school, is it better to graduate at the bottom half of the most rigorous college, perform in the top half of a lower ranked college, or the very top of an even lower ranked college? Assuming these are all T100 and majors are the same. We don’t care as much about prestige as outcomes and ROI.

Top portion of a lower ranked college. What matters is LSAT scores and GPA. Where you went doesn't really come into play.

GPA from top college such as MIT will be compared the same level form low ranked college.

If this is true why do people chase prestige and rankings?

Because it's not true.

Every top law, business, and medical school is going to value a degree from MIT or Princeton over one from Oklahoma Panhandle State or Western Nevada College. And those here telling you otherwise haven't been involved with graduate school admissions since the 1890s.

Your LSAT, GMAT, and MCAT scores do matter a lot, however, no matter where you went to undergrad.

This. The scores matter, but the school itself is a bigger factor than most on DCUM will admit. Some are true feeders and the bottom half kids have out of proportion success compared to what the same relative gpa and LSAT from a much lower ranked school would give.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When choosing undergrad colleges with an eye toward law or graduate school, is it better to graduate at the bottom half of the most rigorous college, perform in the top half of a lower ranked college, or the very top of an even lower ranked college? Assuming these are all T100 and majors are the same. We don’t care as much about prestige as outcomes and ROI.

Top portion of a lower ranked college. What matters is LSAT scores and GPA. Where you went doesn't really come into play.

GPA from top college such as MIT will be compared the same level form low ranked college.

nope it will not. below average students at MIT get into med school easily compared to below average kids at T75 or worse. Med school admissions: the undergrad programs, includng the curriculum within the program (ie engineer gets more leeway than urban studies), are tiered. Tier 1 is about 20-22 schools. The difference is best seen on the fringes: lower relative gpa compared to the average will be considered in context of the school, and as long as the MCAT is at or above the school's admitting averge and no flags, the MIT kid will get in over a student who has an above average but not 4.0 with the same MCAT score. Every day of the week. And so will the ivy kid, etc.

[Anonymous]

Agree undergrad institution doesn't matter for law school. Remember law school is expensive. If that is the end goal, do undergrad as cheaply as possible. Also remember law school does not really make financial sense unless you work in big law which most don't enjoy. True top law schools take a lot of students from top undergrad institutions but remember many students from top undergrad institutions can AFFORD law school. There is definitely a correlation vs causation. DH went to top law school and many of his classmates used law school as an expensive way to bide time between "insert expensive ivy or SLAC name here" and taking over a family business or foundation or simply living off of a trust fund.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agree undergrad institution doesn't matter for law school. Remember law school is expensive. If that is the end goal, do undergrad as cheaply as possible. Also remember law school does not really make financial sense unless you work in big law which most don't enjoy. True top law schools take a lot of students from top undergrad institutions but remember many students from top undergrad institutions can AFFORD law school. There is definitely a correlation vs causation. DH went to top law school and many of his classmates used law school as an expensive way to bide time between "insert expensive ivy or SLAC name here" and taking over a family business or foundation or simply living off of a trust fund.

This is what's known as an anecdote

[Anonymous]

^ Everything on DCUM is.🙄

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interesting. If I were handling grad/prof school admissions, I would 100% value a mid-range GPA from one of the notoriously difficult schools (MIT, UChicago, and I’m sure there are many others) over a top GPA from a less competitive school. So a totally different set of rules applies for grad/professional school admission compared to undergrad? (Excuse the naïveté as I went to an entirely uncompetitive grad school a long time ago and my kids aren’t planning on law/med school.)

Anonymous wrote:T14 law school admission is almost entirely based on college GPA and LSAT. Assuming T100 undergrad, as you say, then attend wherever you will get the highest college GPA.

College rank doesn't matter.

There may be exceptions for MIT but frankly not a lot of MIT grads are trying to get into law school.
Honestly they don't care about GPA as much as LSAT scores. Near perfect GPAs are so common that the real differentiator is the LSAT score

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:T14 law school admission is almost entirely based on college GPA and LSAT. Assuming T100 undergrad, as you say, then attend wherever you will get the highest college GPA.

College rank doesn't matter.

Aside from a small group of schools like MIT, it's not tough to get good grades in college these days.

I don't know why we are talking about MIT. In 30 years I think I might have met one lawyer that went to MIT undergrad.
Lots of SLACs, lots of Ivy, lots of flagship state, maybe 1 MIT.
I do know one from Cal Tech.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is half true, kids can go to a top law school from anywhere if they get a 4.0 and perfect LSAT. But the T14 law schools are going to favor kids from T20 schools on a per capita basis, especially their own undergrads.

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