Public school & SPED - 2E donut hole

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will be slightly controverciql here. Is accomodating giftedness a need? I mean Khan academy, coursera and other resources are free. Plus there are other enrichment opportunities. Thr FAPE concept guarantees appropriate buy not optimal.

Well you are conflating needs with legal requirements. Obviously the legal requirement is not that schools meet every need of every child. That doesn't mean kids don't have needs that schools aren't meeting.

The legal requirement is that disabled students are able to access gifted services in the same manner as non-disabled kids - with accommodations or special instruction when they are otherwise qualified. We do not require gifted kids in general education to teach themselves - they have access to advanced classes and magnet programs - so gifted disabled children should have access to the same and not be left only to teach themselves.

A gifted kid with an IEP with special instruction in writing who wants to take AP Lang must be allowed to take that class, receive accommodations and special instruction in writing.

A gifted kid who wants to apply to a magnet program must be allowed to do so and must receive testing accommodations on any admissions test. If admitted the school must comply with any 504 or IEP.

IME, gifted kids with IEPs or 504s often have teachers who refuse to comply. IME, the magnet programs will threaten to kick out kids who ask for accommodations. IME, HS programs will also refuse to provide accommodations to kids in AP or IB programs and demand that they self-accommodate by dropping these advanced classes or forcing them to take these classes without accommodations. This is clearly illegal and there is an OSERS letter stating that advanced students cannot be forced to give up accommodations or special instruction in order to access advanced instruction.

The segregated IEP programs, like ED or RICA, are particularly bad at this, and. frankly, someone should file a state or federal complaint about this.

I think there is a misperception that parents who ask for accelerated programs for their kids are somehow contributing to or causing their anxiety or depression, or that kids with ADHD aren't capable of advanced instruction. Nothing could be further from the truth. Gifted 2E kids need gifted instruction as do their non-disabled gifted peers.

OP is in MoCo. Her kid is getting access in the same manner as non-disabled students. It's all but non-existent for both groups

I am in MoCo. I know many parents think gifted education is "non-existant" but it simply not true. There are gifted magnets in ES, MS and HS. There are GT/LD programs in ES, MS and HS. There are opportunites for individual accelerated classes at a homeschool in MS, and ES (I think, in math still).

Yes, it's true that acceleration in a homeschool doesn't start until upper ES mostly, but other than that there are lots of options. Maybe still not enough but not "non-existent".

[Anonymous]

We are in FCPS and in no way could our school meet child's needs. First and foremost, they were completely inadequate in the Special Ed area. But secondly, they were recommending not placing him in the Advanced Program even though a) he was extremely advanced as a 2nd grader and had tested v. high and b) he was the picture-perfect curious out-of-the box thinker that AAP is supposed to somehow "rescue" from the Gen Ed classroom. (I now know from my other kids that they were probably correct in that the program is really designed for kids with strong executive functions to shine.) By the end of first and second grades, my super bright and sweet child was depressed and his self-esteem was on the floor. It was an absolutely horrible experience for his parents to witness.

I ended up leaving my career and homeschooling in order to meet him where he was academically at his strengths and weaknesses. I learned how to remediate his very severe LD. We made sure he had loads of activities with peers. We both loved it.

After a few years, I looked into Special Needs schools (which were not really affordable) to see if we could get him back in a classroom. The one that was logical diagnosis-wise basically indicated that it wasn't a good fit because he was too advanced academically in his areas of strength. She specifically recommended some schools/programs in MoCo - though we are not in MoCo.

Eventually, kid went to a small mainstream private and was very successful. He is in college and doing amazingly well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will be slightly controverciql here. Is accomodating giftedness a need? I mean Khan academy, coursera and other resources are free. Plus there are other enrichment opportunities. Thr FAPE concept guarantees appropriate buy not optimal.

Well you are conflating needs with legal requirements. Obviously the legal requirement is not that schools meet every need of every child. That doesn't mean kids don't have needs that schools aren't meeting.

The legal requirement is that disabled students are able to access gifted services in the same manner as non-disabled kids - with accommodations or special instruction when they are otherwise qualified. We do not require gifted kids in general education to teach themselves - they have access to advanced classes and magnet programs - so gifted disabled children should have access to the same and not be left only to teach themselves.

A gifted kid with an IEP with special instruction in writing who wants to take AP Lang must be allowed to take that class, receive accommodations and special instruction in writing.

A gifted kid who wants to apply to a magnet program must be allowed to do so and must receive testing accommodations on any admissions test. If admitted the school must comply with any 504 or IEP.

IME, gifted kids with IEPs or 504s often have teachers who refuse to comply. IME, the magnet programs will threaten to kick out kids who ask for accommodations. IME, HS programs will also refuse to provide accommodations to kids in AP or IB programs and demand that they self-accommodate by dropping these advanced classes or forcing them to take these classes without accommodations. This is clearly illegal and there is an OSERS letter stating that advanced students cannot be forced to give up accommodations or special instruction in order to access advanced instruction.

The segregated IEP programs, like ED or RICA, are particularly bad at this, and. frankly, someone should file a state or federal complaint about this.

I think there is a misperception that parents who ask for accelerated programs for their kids are somehow contributing to or causing their anxiety or depression, or that kids with ADHD aren't capable of advanced instruction. Nothing could be further from the truth. Gifted 2E kids need gifted instruction as do their non-disabled gifted peers.

I’m doing to disagree with you about RICA. My kid has been there for years and is thriving both academically and social-emotionally. RICA has access to all of the MCPS curriculum including compacted math, ELA, honors, and AP. RICA teachers are excellent at differentiation. The classes are small enough that some kids can be doing grade level work and others honors level work.

[Anonymous]

This is why we homeschool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are in FCPS and in no way could our school meet child's needs. First and foremost, they were completely inadequate in the Special Ed area. But secondly, they were recommending not placing him in the Advanced Program even though a) he was extremely advanced as a 2nd grader and had tested v. high and b) he was the picture-perfect curious out-of-the box thinker that AAP is supposed to somehow "rescue" from the Gen Ed classroom. (I now know from my other kids that they were probably correct in that the program is really designed for kids with strong executive functions to shine.) By the end of first and second grades, my super bright and sweet child was depressed and his self-esteem was on the floor. It was an absolutely horrible experience for his parents to witness.

I ended up leaving my career and homeschooling in order to meet him where he was academically at his strengths and weaknesses. I learned how to remediate his very severe LD. We made sure he had loads of activities with peers. We both loved it.

After a few years, I looked into Special Needs schools (which were not really affordable) to see if we could get him back in a classroom. The one that was logical diagnosis-wise basically indicated that it wasn't a good fit because he was too advanced academically in his areas of strength. She specifically recommended some schools/programs in MoCo - though we are not in MoCo.

Eventually, kid went to a small mainstream private and was very successful. He is in college and doing amazingly well.

Thank you for this! Gives me hope.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What supports does your child need? There's no federal entitlement to gifted programming and most students with disabilities are in mainstream/gen ed classes with supports.

Yes, but some states' law do provide for some gifted/accelerated programming.

[Anonymous]

There’s also the issue of defunding GTLD programs in Moco and much more need than spaces in the program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will be slightly controverciql here. Is accomodating giftedness a need? I mean Khan academy, coursera and other resources are free. Plus there are other enrichment opportunities. Thr FAPE concept guarantees appropriate buy not optimal.

Well you are conflating needs with legal requirements. Obviously the legal requirement is not that schools meet every need of every child. That doesn't mean kids don't have needs that schools aren't meeting.

The legal requirement is that disabled students are able to access gifted services in the same manner as non-disabled kids - with accommodations or special instruction when they are otherwise qualified. We do not require gifted kids in general education to teach themselves - they have access to advanced classes and magnet programs - so gifted disabled children should have access to the same and not be left only to teach themselves.

A gifted kid with an IEP with special instruction in writing who wants to take AP Lang must be allowed to take that class, receive accommodations and special instruction in writing.

A gifted kid who wants to apply to a magnet program must be allowed to do so and must receive testing accommodations on any admissions test. If admitted the school must comply with any 504 or IEP.

IME, gifted kids with IEPs or 504s often have teachers who refuse to comply. IME, the magnet programs will threaten to kick out kids who ask for accommodations. IME, HS programs will also refuse to provide accommodations to kids in AP or IB programs and demand that they self-accommodate by dropping these advanced classes or forcing them to take these classes without accommodations. This is clearly illegal and there is an OSERS letter stating that advanced students cannot be forced to give up accommodations or special instruction in order to access advanced instruction.

The segregated IEP programs, like ED or RICA, are particularly bad at this, and. frankly, someone should file a state or federal complaint about this.

I think there is a misperception that parents who ask for accelerated programs for their kids are somehow contributing to or causing their anxiety or depression, or that kids with ADHD aren't capable of advanced instruction. Nothing could be further from the truth. Gifted 2E kids need gifted instruction as do their non-disabled gifted peers.

I’m doing to disagree with you about RICA. My kid has been there for years and is thriving both academically and social-emotionally. RICA has access to all of the MCPS curriculum including compacted math, ELA, honors, and AP. RICA teachers are excellent at differentiation. The classes are small enough that some kids can be doing grade level work and others honors level work.

I am happy to hear that. I stand corrected. Do you feel like your kid got instruction and/or feedback in the above grade level material or were they left on their own to work through it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes. 2 more years and then dual enrollment at MC. 11th grade can’t come fast enough. The “support” my kid needs is less noise and less chaos in the classroom. That “need” can only be met by a fewer number of kids in the class. That’s not really an option in MCPS. Bring on 15-18 student CC classes!

Hadn't thought of this! Thanks for sharing!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will be slightly controverciql here. Is accomodating giftedness a need? I mean Khan academy, coursera and other resources are free. Plus there are other enrichment opportunities. Thr FAPE concept guarantees appropriate buy not optimal.

Well you are conflating needs with legal requirements. Obviously the legal requirement is not that schools meet every need of every child. That doesn't mean kids don't have needs that schools aren't meeting.

The legal requirement is that disabled students are able to access gifted services in the same manner as non-disabled kids - with accommodations or special instruction when they are otherwise qualified. We do not require gifted kids in general education to teach themselves - they have access to advanced classes and magnet programs - so gifted disabled children should have access to the same and not be left only to teach themselves.

A gifted kid with an IEP with special instruction in writing who wants to take AP Lang must be allowed to take that class, receive accommodations and special instruction in writing.

A gifted kid who wants to apply to a magnet program must be allowed to do so and must receive testing accommodations on any admissions test. If admitted the school must comply with any 504 or IEP.

IME, gifted kids with IEPs or 504s often have teachers who refuse to comply. IME, the magnet programs will threaten to kick out kids who ask for accommodations. IME, HS programs will also refuse to provide accommodations to kids in AP or IB programs and demand that they self-accommodate by dropping these advanced classes or forcing them to take these classes without accommodations. This is clearly illegal and there is an OSERS letter stating that advanced students cannot be forced to give up accommodations or special instruction in order to access advanced instruction.

The segregated IEP programs, like ED or RICA, are particularly bad at this, and. frankly, someone should file a state or federal complaint about this.

I think there is a misperception that parents who ask for accelerated programs for their kids are somehow contributing to or causing their anxiety or depression, or that kids with ADHD aren't capable of advanced instruction. Nothing could be further from the truth. Gifted 2E kids need gifted instruction as do their non-disabled gifted peers.

I’m doing to disagree with you about RICA. My kid has been there for years and is thriving both academically and social-emotionally. RICA has access to all of the MCPS curriculum including compacted math, ELA, honors, and AP. RICA teachers are excellent at differentiation. The classes are small enough that some kids can be doing grade level work and others honors level work.

I am happy to hear that. I stand corrected. Do you feel like your kid got instruction and/or feedback in the above grade level material or were they left on their own to work through it?

Yes. The rigor of his coursework has been on par with the neighborhood kids in honors classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will be slightly controverciql here. Is accomodating giftedness a need? I mean Khan academy, coursera and other resources are free. Plus there are other enrichment opportunities. Thr FAPE concept guarantees appropriate buy not optimal.

Well you are conflating needs with legal requirements. Obviously the legal requirement is not that schools meet every need of every child. That doesn't mean kids don't have needs that schools aren't meeting.

The legal requirement is that disabled students are able to access gifted services in the same manner as non-disabled kids - with accommodations or special instruction when they are otherwise qualified. We do not require gifted kids in general education to teach themselves - they have access to advanced classes and magnet programs - so gifted disabled children should have access to the same and not be left only to teach themselves.

A gifted kid with an IEP with special instruction in writing who wants to take AP Lang must be allowed to take that class, receive accommodations and special instruction in writing.

A gifted kid who wants to apply to a magnet program must be allowed to do so and must receive testing accommodations on any admissions test. If admitted the school must comply with any 504 or IEP.

IME, gifted kids with IEPs or 504s often have teachers who refuse to comply. IME, the magnet programs will threaten to kick out kids who ask for accommodations. IME, HS programs will also refuse to provide accommodations to kids in AP or IB programs and demand that they self-accommodate by dropping these advanced classes or forcing them to take these classes without accommodations. This is clearly illegal and there is an OSERS letter stating that advanced students cannot be forced to give up accommodations or special instruction in order to access advanced instruction.

The segregated IEP programs, like ED or RICA, are particularly bad at this, and. frankly, someone should file a state or federal complaint about this.

I think there is a misperception that parents who ask for accelerated programs for their kids are somehow contributing to or causing their anxiety or depression, or that kids with ADHD aren't capable of advanced instruction. Nothing could be further from the truth. Gifted 2E kids need gifted instruction as do their non-disabled gifted peers.

OP is in MoCo. Her kid is getting access in the same manner as non-disabled students. It's all but non-existent for both groups

I am in MoCo. I know many parents think gifted education is "non-existant" but it simply not true. There are gifted magnets in ES, MS and HS. There are GT/LD programs in ES, MS and HS. There are opportunites for individual accelerated classes at a homeschool in MS, and ES (I think, in math still).

Yes, it's true that acceleration in a homeschool doesn't start until upper ES mostly, but other than that there are lots of options. Maybe still not enough but not "non-existent".

Its extremely difficult to get into the gifted magnets as there are few slots and too many kids. My kid was waitlisted but never got in. In ES, there was no acceleration, services were a joke. In MS, there was only acceleration in math. In HS, it really varies by the HS but ours offers few AP classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will be slightly controverciql here. Is accomodating giftedness a need? I mean Khan academy, coursera and other resources are free. Plus there are other enrichment opportunities. Thr FAPE concept guarantees appropriate buy not optimal.

Well you are conflating needs with legal requirements. Obviously the legal requirement is not that schools meet every need of every child. That doesn't mean kids don't have needs that schools aren't meeting.

The legal requirement is that disabled students are able to access gifted services in the same manner as non-disabled kids - with accommodations or special instruction when they are otherwise qualified. We do not require gifted kids in general education to teach themselves - they have access to advanced classes and magnet programs - so gifted disabled children should have access to the same and not be left only to teach themselves.

A gifted kid with an IEP with special instruction in writing who wants to take AP Lang must be allowed to take that class, receive accommodations and special instruction in writing.

A gifted kid who wants to apply to a magnet program must be allowed to do so and must receive testing accommodations on any admissions test. If admitted the school must comply with any 504 or IEP.

IME, gifted kids with IEPs or 504s often have teachers who refuse to comply. IME, the magnet programs will threaten to kick out kids who ask for accommodations. IME, HS programs will also refuse to provide accommodations to kids in AP or IB programs and demand that they self-accommodate by dropping these advanced classes or forcing them to take these classes without accommodations. This is clearly illegal and there is an OSERS letter stating that advanced students cannot be forced to give up accommodations or special instruction in order to access advanced instruction.

The segregated IEP programs, like ED or RICA, are particularly bad at this, and. frankly, someone should file a state or federal complaint about this.

I think there is a misperception that parents who ask for accelerated programs for their kids are somehow contributing to or causing their anxiety or depression, or that kids with ADHD aren't capable of advanced instruction. Nothing could be further from the truth. Gifted 2E kids need gifted instruction as do their non-disabled gifted peers.

OP is in MoCo. Her kid is getting access in the same manner as non-disabled students. It's all but non-existent for both groups

I am in MoCo. I know many parents think gifted education is "non-existant" but it simply not true. There are gifted magnets in ES, MS and HS. There are GT/LD programs in ES, MS and HS. There are opportunites for individual accelerated classes at a homeschool in MS, and ES (I think, in math still).

Yes, it's true that acceleration in a homeschool doesn't start until upper ES mostly, but other than that there are lots of options. Maybe still not enough but not "non-existent".

Each ES and MS magnet requires you to literally win a lottery. My kids always qualify to be placed in the lottery but can’t win space in the classes that would help them thrive. That’s for other people, apparently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are in FCPS and in no way could our school meet child's needs. First and foremost, they were completely inadequate in the Special Ed area. But secondly, they were recommending not placing him in the Advanced Program even though a) he was extremely advanced as a 2nd grader and had tested v. high and b) he was the picture-perfect curious out-of-the box thinker that AAP is supposed to somehow "rescue" from the Gen Ed classroom. (I now know from my other kids that they were probably correct in that the program is really designed for kids with strong executive functions to shine.) By the end of first and second grades, my super bright and sweet child was depressed and his self-esteem was on the floor. It was an absolutely horrible experience for his parents to witness.

I ended up leaving my career and homeschooling in order to meet him where he was academically at his strengths and weaknesses. I learned how to remediate his very severe LD. We made sure he had loads of activities with peers. We both loved it.

After a few years, I looked into Special Needs schools (which were not really affordable) to see if we could get him back in a classroom. The one that was logical diagnosis-wise basically indicated that it wasn't a good fit because he was too advanced academically in his areas of strength. She specifically recommended some schools/programs in MoCo - though we are not in MoCo.

Eventually, kid went to a small mainstream private and was very successful. He is in college and doing amazingly well.

Good to hear, PP!

[Anonymous]

My kid did well in MCPS's GT/LD program.

[Anonymous]

Public schools are not great for most kids. There are holes for all sorts of kids.

We have learned that we have to supplement a lot for our 2E kid. It would be better to go private for our child but we have stayed in the FCPS schools because of social reasons like friends.